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Some developer thoughts on the Green Army Men DLC

[TW]Wilsonam

VP, Tripwire Int.
Oct 17, 2005
4,061
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60
Roswell, GA
www.tripwireinteractive.com
To people asking about some of the rationale about the Green Army Men mod... the GAM team have been working entirely in their spare time, on the mod for a couple of years - and we want to encourage them to continue to do so. We (all) want to see them make new content, new maps, as well as fix bugs and react to community feedback for a long time to come. Hence the rev-share. And the price for it is only slightly more than some of the cosmetic DLC, in this case delivering a completely new game experience, heavily customized from base Vietnam, with 4 new maps and so on. Plus a decent amount of work (and QA) from Tripwire, AMG and Valve to enable them to bring it from a mish-mash of Steam workshop items that a few people actually play, to being one shipped with the main game, instantly available to everyone. To which point, the base classes are free to everyone, permanently. We're hoping you feel like rewarding the mod team for their work and choose to toss them some money for it. And, talking of free - everyone who actually played the mod for any amount of time, contributed feedback etc - well, you all got the Upgrade for free anyway.

Looking at some of the questions being raised, the damage model was changed around from the base game, to produce a "Vietnam Lite" feel to it. When you all need a break from the death and mayhem in the jungle, take the opportunity to enjoy some simpler mayhem in GAM. Not quite so instantly lethal. More chance to figure out where you're being shot from. Choppers that don't require a month's training to fly. Apart from a lighter feel to the Vietnam vets, it may also act as a slightly easier entry/learning point for FNGs.

And on the choice of what to ask people to pay for: we want to balance giving those who pay a decent amount extra, while allowing everyone who doesn't want to contribute dosh to the GAM team to play for free. And, yes, we're listening/watching/analyzing to see what we got right and wrong in all those decisions. One piece we're immediately considering is opening up the commander role (with the normal level restrictions) so that the defenders can make use of some supporting fire and help balance. Of course, what we do NOT want to do is to indulge in knee-jerk reactions and start tweaking numbers all over the place. Bad idea. So, both the GAM team and Tripwire are listening. We may get a survey going from time-to-time to garner a broad range of opinions, that we can act on going forward.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,162
3,395
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As Alan said, please feel free to give us your feedback, we are picking up as much of it as we can! And ask any more questions you may have here or elsewhere in the forums and we can try and get those answered for you.
 
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ElJefe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 20, 2019
14
2
0
While I understand the attempt to make it feel more casual, I don't think the damage model is the way to go about this.

The killcam and easier to use helicopter flight models are enough to get a more casual, maybe even "training" mode feeling. However the damage model changes the game to feel like something it's not, and if anything will instill bad habits into FNGs, while still not attracting the attention of veteran players who prefer the lethal combat. This is the same issue action mode in ro2/rs1 had, which never had a very large playerbase
 

[PBS]MorenaSamba

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 7, 2018
16
0
1
27
Texas, Plano Texas
I live the look of the GAM mod, but I don't like the changes made to the damage models. Yesterday I found myself behind some green enemies in the beach map, I spammed single shots on their backs with my m16 and they turned around and started gunning me down until I am dead. I couldn't even snipe enemies from long distance in the backyard map with the m16. My kills turned out to be team wounds when it looked like I was sniping at enemies. I kept getting killed by the enemy m16s while I was still spamming single shots in long distance at the enemy heads.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,162
3,395
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The team is considering some things around the damage model/ttk, but like Alan said, we aren't rushing them in. There is also a good chance of a survey to the community as well to make sure we get a good sampling of input on the DLC.
 
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Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,162
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[PBS said:
MorenaSamba;n2333268]So are we going to have a survey about the green army men to fill out some day?
To quote myself (https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forum/rising-storm-2-vietnam/rs2-vietnam-news-and-announcements/news-and-announcements-ag/2333235-some-developer-thoughts-on-the-green-army-men-dlc?p=2333265#post2333265) "There is also a good chance of a survey to the community as well to make sure we get a good sampling of input on the DLC."

To quote Alan (https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/forum/rising-storm-2-vietnam/rs2-vietnam-news-and-announcements/news-and-announcements-ag/2333235-some-developer-thoughts-on-the-green-army-men-dlc#post2333235) "We may get a survey going from time-to-time to garner a broad range of opinions, that we can act on going forward."
 
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Mr.Tea

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 12, 2019
1
0
0
27
I've taken the time to make an account here as I think my reply will be more visible than on the Steam discussions page.

I feel like the new TTK it too far removed from the base game TTK to actually teach the new players anything good. If anything, it'll teach them all the wrong things; spraying half a mag to kill an enemy rather than calmly burst firing or firing in single shots. New players will probably also be really surprised at how easy it is to die outside of GAM.

I'd like to provide a potential solution; make a new gamemode/ruleset for GAM that is, for the lack of a better term, "hardcore GAM". This way you can revert the TTK to the Christmas update model keeping the zero fall damage and easier to fly helis, killcam etc. but just bringing TTK back into line with how it used to be. This way you can have the regular GAM with the increased TTK and then Hardcore with the lower TTK.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,162
3,395
113
Mr.Tea;n2333288 said:
I've taken the time to make an account here as I think my reply will be more visible than on the Steam discussions page.

I feel like the new TTK it too far removed from the base game TTK to actually teach the new players anything good. If anything, it'll teach them all the wrong things; spraying half a mag to kill an enemy rather than calmly burst firing or firing in single shots. New players will probably also be really surprised at how easy it is to die outside of GAM.

I'd like to provide a potential solution; make a new gamemode/ruleset for GAM that is, for the lack of a better term, "hardcore GAM". This way you can revert the TTK to the Christmas update model keeping the zero fall damage and easier to fly helis, killcam etc. but just bringing TTK back into line with how it used to be. This way you can have the regular GAM with the increased TTK and then Hardcore with the lower TTK.
Thank you for the suggestion!
 

[PBS]MorenaSamba

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 7, 2018
16
0
1
27
Texas, Plano Texas
Is the Supremacy Pool Party map being scrapped or reworked? I miss playing the Supremacy pool party map. I suggest adding more toy themed maps like Toy Story themed maps, Disney land maps, and kids bedroom maps.
 

[PBS]MorenaSamba

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 7, 2018
16
0
1
27
Texas, Plano Texas
I also suggest adding unlimited ammo with reload so new players get a idea about how many shots it takes to kill an enemy without worrying about running out of ammo to get a more casual and relaxing feeling from the base game without reducing the damage model.
 

screwthis

Member
Nov 7, 2017
74
10
8
28
I don't like the plastic m16, feels like I have to dump an entire mag to make the enemy go down. But I am not the target audience for the gamemode, and wouldn't play it often or by the DLC regardless so it doesn't matter much.