Solo crew tanks with AI MG or without

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Solo crew tanks with AI MG or without

  • Tank with AI MG

    Votes: 28 28.0%
  • Tnak without AI MG

    Votes: 72 72.0%

  • Total voters
    100

undead10000

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2011
23
4
0
I do hate the aimbot machinegunner, but killing all the AI out of the tank is ridiculous.
For example if you have nobody you can thrust on the server, the AI driver is awesome.


Sorry but theres no AI driver, it's your self who drivering the tank you just give the "orders" to the tank driver to move.

If there is AI driver it should drivering by self if you are controlling the main gun and you can't do any thing with it same the MG AI that is shooting by self is controlled by AI, that you can't controll your self at all.
 

MarioBava

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2006
810
191
0
In RO1, everyone in the crew got credit for kills made by any other crew members. Haven't tested this in RO2 yet, but I assume it's the case as well.

Thanks for reminding me, I hadn't remembered that. But that's still okay because in Ostfront it was human players and could be okay for human crewmen in this game. The idea is that the crew works together and even or especially the driver can make it easier or harder for the gunners to get kills.

But bots shouldn't share kills.
 
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MarioBava

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2006
810
191
0
Sorry but theres no AI driver, it's your self who drivering the tank you just give the "orders" to the tank driver to move.

If there is AI driver it should drivering by self if you are controlling the main gun and you can't do any thing with it same the MG AI that is shooting by self is controlled by AI, that you can't controll your self at all.

Semantics. I think he means the same thing as you are saying, just used the wrong term for it.
 

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
0
Polls like these need more options.

I voted "With AI", because there was no "AI, but with significant, drastic changes" option.
 

MarioBava

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2006
810
191
0
Sorry but theres no AI driver, it's your self who drivering the tank you just give the "orders" to the tank driver to move.

If there is AI driver it should drivering by self if you are controlling the main gun and you can't do any thing with it same the MG AI that is shooting by self is controlled by AI, that you can't controll your self at all.

Also, if you control the tank not using WASD but with the f key movement command method, the tank is driven by AI to get to where you commanded it.
 

Major_Day

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 16, 2007
2,651
329
0
Glasgow, Scotland
Also, if you control the tank not using WASD but with the f key movement command method, the tank is driven by AI to get to where you commanded it.

Yeah i remember watchin some old WW2 videos about tank fighting on Youtube, and i thought to myself, what the hell are those big golden arrows that come down from the sky and spear themselves into the ground, being used for? lol
 

aD.Luoson

FNG / Fresh Meat
Ya whos idea was it to put bots into multilayer fulltime, seriously dumb idea. Much like most of the games ideas. Seriously i cannot understand how any developer thought this was a good idea. But i guess good ideas dont come natural to TWI considering the game is dead. BTW wheres my REFUND, i was promised (lied too) that there would be alot of players, yet the servers in Aus/nz are DEAD 24-7 just a few months after release.. Huge waste of money this game. Single player is a a huge joke which is basicly just mutliplayer with dumb bots, so can i get a refund????
 
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MarioBava

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2006
810
191
0
BTW wheres my REFUND, i was promised (lied too) that there would be alot of players, yet the servers in Aus/nz are DEAD 24-7 just a few months after release..

Game companies never ever make promises about such a thing. Read the license agreement next time.
 

Kleist

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2009
2,034
333
0
Deutschland
1) - Throw the cheaters (Tank AI - only the loader can stay in) out of the tank.

2) - Add WASD for the turret control (the mouse-control really sucks :( )

3) - Create a better damage system (It
 

Calumhm

Active member
Jul 22, 2009
390
30
28
31
Plymouth, England
Yep, its not about not being able to get into tank (tanks are pretty unpopular compared to marksman, elite riflemen and assaults) its about turning off hull MG AI. I'm quite sure that people who want hull MG AI off have very little expirience with random crewmen. MG AI reaction time (and accuracy, a bit) should be toned down, but unless some major changes are made to the tank crew system, "allowing crew" shouldnt be "forced".

No human player will ever be as good as the AI mg. Sounds like you're another one who likes to sit in infantry-rich areas letting the AI give him double the score of any other player.
 

Golf33

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 29, 2005
922
170
0
I voted get rid of it, because there's no 'drastic changes' option.

I could live with AI gunning if the following changes were made:

Vision and situational awareness
1. AI gunner is only aware of enemies that he can see through the sights (i.e. not behind cover and not off to the side of where he is currently aiming).
2. AI gunner is only aware of enemies that are behind cover if he saw them move into cover.
3. AI gunner constantly scans his sights left and right to pick up targets unless directed onto a target by the player-in-tank-commander-seat.

The AI should be no more able to locate and engage targets than a human player would be in that seat. I can't see targets unless they're visible in my sights, so why should my AI gunner be able to see targets on the far left when his gun is pointing to the far right?

Ammo expenditure and targeting
1. AI gunner fires MG in bursts, not in single shot precision-mode.
2. The AI gunner targets the centre of visible mass of the target.

This will be more believable for the human getting shot. Getting 1-shot headshotted by the AI MG nearly every time is just ridiculous. It's also how a human would tend to play the role. A human player would tend to go for the centre of visible mass of the target and would fire bursts, so you'd get mostly torso hits with some limbs and a few headshots and you'd see higher ammo consumption with more frequent reloads.

Accuracy
1. AI gunner's accuracy should be limited to a level roughly linked to the ability of the human player in the tank.

Whatever variables control the ability of the AI to hit a target should be tweaked so that in practice the AI roughly achieves a hit percentage across all ranges that is determined by 3 factors. Those factors would be:

When using hull MG or coax MG:
1 - the Machine-Gunner class level the human player in the tank has achieved (e.g. if it was me, I'm a Veteran Machine-Gunner, so L4).
2 - the DP-28 / MG-34 level the human player in the tank has achieved (e.g. if it was me, in a German tank, it'd be L13; if I was in a Russian tank, L40).
3 - the average accuracy human machine gunners at that level have achieved using the MG found in the tank (e.g. if it's a Russian tank and I'm playing, it'd be the average accuracy of all human L4 machine gunners who have achieved L40 on the DP-28).

When using main gun rounds:
1 - the Rifleman class level the human player in the tank has achieved (e.g. if it was me, I'm a Recruit Rifleman, so L1).
2 - the MN91/30 / KAR98 level the human player in the tank has achieved (e.g. if it was me, in a German tank, it'd be L1; if I was in a Russian tank, L3).
3 - the average accuracy human riflemen at that level have achieved using the MG found in the tank (e.g. if it's a Russian tank and I'm playing, it'd be the average accuracy of all human L1 riflemen who have achieved L3 on the MN91/30).

I don't know what the average accuracy for each class- and weapon-level combination is, but I'd guess it's probably around 20% at Veteran (L4) with an L40 DP-28 and probably around 70% at Recruit (L1) with an L3 MN91/30. Should be possible for TWI to run a database query on the player stats to find out the real average figures though.

There's several advantages of this:
* AI gunner performance will be believable compared to human performance.
* Using average of all players at the same class/weapon level instead of the individual players prevents gaming the system - otherwise you could ensure your AI gunner got 100% accuracy by taking your DP-28, firing a single shot at a sure target to get 100% accuracy, and then never using it again.
* There is an incentive for people to use and level up some of the less popular weapons - the LMGs and bolt-action rifles - in order to improve their tank AI gunner's performance.
 
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Wookie87

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 28, 2011
143
25
0
UK
@Golf33

Thats a rather interesting way of going about it, however i personally think its still abit much with the accuracy. I don't really see the point of scaling accuracy. As long as the bow MG can shoot at blatant targets in plain view, it fulfills its role of stopping the foolish from head on charges and encourage flanking.

Low reaction times and low situational awareness still sound like the way forward and the best compromise to me.
 

HLudwig

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2011
227
212
0
I think pretty much all the people who answered "without" in this, would really prefer the MG AI to instead be toned down to human levels.

How do you quantify human levels and then enter those variables into a game? If scientist in the disciplines of sociology, anthropology, economics, psychology and biology can't create a mathematical formula for human behavior, how is a game developer going to make that happen?
 

Golf33

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 29, 2005
922
170
0
How do you quantify human levels and then enter those variables into a game? If scientist in the disciplines of sociology, anthropology, economics, psychology and biology can't create a mathematical formula for human behavior, how is a game developer going to make that happen?
They can't exactly, but what they can do is create a formula that gives results that are believably similar to what you'd see from a human.

If you implemented my suggestion 2 posts up, I don't think anyone would even realise that the tank was crewed by an AI gunner. The AI would achieve results that matched those you'd expect from a human player and that's close enough for the purpose of getting a fun game.
 

Kleist

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2009
2,034
333
0
Deutschland
AI would never play like a human.

Set the whole Tank-AI our of order. You can see them sitting in your tank and they scream some warnings but they don
 

Golf33

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 29, 2005
922
170
0
Ready. Just let rip with the hull mg when the tank commander is trying to move undetected into the enemy flank. Used to happen all the time in RO:Ost.