So you want balance, eh?

[evil lemon325]

I never said it didn't play a significant part, I simply said that, contrary to what the OP seems to think are body building super men, many Marines were not overly 'built' in comparison to their Japanese counterparts who could overpower a Japanese soldier with their little finger.

Hooray, exaggeration ad infinitum is fun! As the OP reads: the Marines are stronger and better trained in melee combat. Does it say anywhere that the mere sight of the marines biceps made hordes of Japanese die of fright? No. OP does not say marines are body building super men, he says that as a whole a Marine is probably stronger and better at melee combat than a Japanese soldier is. Funny thing is that is completely true. Hyperbole yours, not OP's.

Again, where exactly do I state there were 'wide spread food shortages' in the pacific? I don't. In various battles there are always sitations where soldiers for one reason or another, take Peleliu with lack of water being a problem early on in the assault, supplies don't get through, if you want to argue that doesn't have an effect on the strength of soldiers then go right ahread.

Where exactly do I state there were wide spread food shortages?

Right about exactly here:

Any muscle mass superiority of the Americans would have been rendered useless as soon as they found themselves on a pacific island with little food and being plagued by malaria anyway.

Saying that allied soldiers would suffer extreme atrophy from malnourishment seems to say that they're being malnourished, no? I also specifically mentioned the fact that certain anomalies in the supply train might cause minor, local, and all in all insignificant shortages, "save for whatever might naturally occur in any war in certain unusual situations," and like I said, happen in every war to every army. There was no shortage of food in any pacific battle for the allied side. There were often terrible shortages on the Japanese side. And anomalies, in the grand scale of things, are negligible.

You seem to have this strange idea that every single Japanese soldier that fought in other conflifts somehow magically vanished prior to Marine intervention in the Pacific. By your logic, seeing as the British were conscripting new recruits throughout the war, it means troops already enlisted prior to 1939 never saw service.

I never stated anything either saying or implying as such- it was you who said such ridiculous things like "a lot of the Japanese troops had been fighting in wars before many of the US Marines had even been born"- there were none except a few very high ranking officers- irrelevant as there were American and common wealth veteran officers who did the very same for the Japanese.

Let's not forget "those years of prior experience would have turned even the most ill-trained Japanese soldier into a force to be reckoned with.", which forgets that a vast majority of those island bound garrison soldiers had probably been recently conscripted. You also forget that there would also be few veterans of the Chinese wars, because the Chinese wars still happened to be going on. Those veterans were still fighting in China.

Oh look, a little childish remark to round off, how cute.

I know, right? Thought of it all by m'self. Quite proud of it.

 

[Hilldog]

Where exactly do I state there were wide spread food shortages?

Right about exactly here:

I'll say it yet again, where do I state that there were 'widespread food shortages'? I don't, there were however, as I pointed out, food shortages (among other supplies) during various battles.

Saying that allied soldiers would suffer extreme atrophy from malnourishment seems to say that they're being malnourished, no?

Would suffer and did suffer amazingly are not the same thing, are you suggesting that at no point in the war did US troops ever suffer from malnourishment to any degree?

I never stated anything either saying or implying as such- it was you who said such ridiculous things like "a lot of the Japanese troops had been fighting in wars before many of the US Marines had even been born"- there were none except a few very high ranking officers- irrelevant as there were American and common wealth veteran officers who did the very same for the Japanese.

Let's not forget "those years of prior experience would have turned even the most ill-trained Japanese soldier into a force to be reckoned with.", which forgets that a vast majority of those island bound garrison soldiers had probably been recently conscripted. You also forget that there would also be few veterans of the Chinese wars, because the Chinese wars still happened to be going on. Those veterans were still fighting in China.

Fair points.

I know, right? Thought of it all by m'self. Quite proud of it.

Proud? Okay then...

 

[evil lemon325]

I'll say it yet again, where do I state that there were 'widespread food shortages'? I don't, there were however, as I pointed out, food shortages (among other supplies) during various battles. Would suffer and did suffer amazingly are not the same thing, are you suggesting that at no point in the war did US troops ever suffer from malnourishment to any degree?

Yes. I would posit that at no point during the Pacific War, no unit larger than a company ever suffered any sort of prolonged malnutrition that would result in mass atrophy of an entire invasion force, as you say here

"Any muscle mass superiority of the Americans would have been rendered useless as soon as they found themselves on a pacific island with little food and being plagued by malaria anyway. The muscle mass just dropped off after a few weeks of being there."

Really? The strength advantage of the allies would be rendered useless due to little food resulting in a mass drop off of muscle mass- the amount of time a unit would have to be completely disconnected from the supply train (a highly unlikely situation) on generally very small islands, combined with the efficiency of the allied supply train would mean that any mass atrophy of muscle mass that you described would happen due to malnourishment pure fantasy.

Proud? Okay then...

Could've used a *rimshot*, I 'spose.

 

[r5cya]

ease up, evil lemon. it's not like he kicked yer dog!

 

[Giuliano]

Why do these threads always turn into **** swinging contests?

I think some of the points the OP made are pretty good. Honestly though, it will be difficult to be stealthy or dirty ingame because the game is very linear. You know exactly where the enemy is going to be 100% time. I'm guessing the maps wont be big enough and the objectives spread out enough to simulate ambushes or night attacks that the Marines wont be anticipating. Obviously, if the Rising Storm team want to make the weapon loudouts to be as realistic as they can (which is going to give the Americans a clear advantage) there are going to have to be some serious terrain advantages for the Japanese. Tarawa, Iwo, Peleliu are three battles where the Japanese were outnumbered by a larger and better equiped force, but still inflicted heavy casualties on the Marines because they had a terrain advantage. And I can't be sure, but I think the high amount of Japanese casualties can be attributed to the fact that they weren't very keen on surrendering. I'm not a Pacific theater expert by any means, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Nestor Makhno]

This thread long ago ceased to be about anything other than the egos of its main participants.

It's only the fact that it has, to now, avoided overt and inflammatory racist statements that has kept it unlocked.

 

[CptFoley101]

Just make sure the Marines get M1903's in maps that are in the period 1942-mid 1943.AFAIK most of the Marines didnt had access to M1 Garand,or semi-autos by that timeline.

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

-The Japanese Arisaka rounds tumbled upon impact. Throw in some extra limb damage.

All FMJ Battle-Rifle cartridges tumble in tissue. Infact the only FMJ designed rounds I can think of that don't are mostly pistol bullets (5.7mm/4.6mm are exceptions) and 7.62x39mm M43.

When it comes to wounding, it's the permanent cavity that will kill you, but you'll still feel pain from the temporary cavity when the bullet strikes you. This means despite the less-than-amazing wounding produced by most FMJ Battle Rifle cartridges, they will still drop a man in a single round 95% of the time, where a pistol round to the same spot would have failed. However, as to the lethality of a wound and the effects of that, well that's a whole different story. A man can be shot in the torso, be incapacitated, and survive; or another can be shot in the heart, and fight with lethal determination for 10-12 seconds before the blood stops flowing to his brain.