So let me get this straight...

[hipnox]

Killing Floor is TWIs child (well, it's really Alex's), not the players.

I don't know about you, but i payed money for this game. I bought it right after the Level Up update. I bought it because i liked it. I tried it during a free weekend and decided it was worth the money.

This killing floor, in it's current iteration, is not what i payed money for. The game changed too much. It's not as fun anymore, it's not as challenging anymore. It is entering Pay 2 Win territory. It's losing its atmosphere and style at the expense of completely out of place player skins and weapons. With every update it becomes less and less balanced, challenging and fun.

I payed for something, and then it got changed to something i don't like and probably wouldn't have bought, without my opinion, approval or consent. I know it's kinda weird saying it like that, as i have no voice over what TWI does with it's products, but that's how it is.

Do games now a days have to come with a disclaimer at purchase that says:

WARNING
Some or all features in this game may change in the future.
Buyer discretion is advised

​

I bought Team Fortress 2. I played the hell out of it. Now, i can't stand it. I feel ripped off. This... thing.. TF2 has become is not a game i would ever buy. I no longer like a game i bought because it changed too much.


KF is heading into this direction.

It's emphasis on superfluous content like event skins and maps, new weapons that ruin game and class balancing, making it ever less challenging and fun, are a clear attempt to extend the game's longevity and attract new customers.

In turn TWI pisses all over old KF player like myself that don't want, and never asked for these so called "free content".

I still stand by my claim that TWI has long stopped caring about keeping the game balancing and challenging. They are taking the TF2 "Toilet of the gaming world" approach.

 

[Arblarg]

Don't you ever forget that TWI is a business.
At the end of the day, the thing that prevails is the righteous dollar bill.

TWIs take on that? LODS OF EMONE.

I'm really glad I didn't own this game since release. Blissful ignorance mind you. I'd rather be blissfully ignorant then obliviously bitter to what this game is, was and is becoming.

 

[Kaly]

I bought Team Fortress 2. I played the hell out of it. Now, i can't stand it. I feel ripped off. This... thing.. TF2 has become is not a game i would ever buy. I no longer like a game i bought because it changed too much.

There is a way to revert all the past updates with all the hats and that by using sourcemod on a server. I was thinking of hosting an "old tf2 server"

 

[neonmodder]

I just love how people can't accept that there ARE ways to make money from a game without charging for game-altering content. Aesthetics.

All the guys in denial are like "It's supporting the mod community you unselfish fool! This is clearly the ONLY thing they could possibly charge money for!"

No it isn't. How long has Tripwire been making money on player skins after the retail release?

You just can't understand that most games out there do find ways to get money out of players without locking them out of stuff that affects gameplay. You are all badly misusing TF2 as an example because what TF2 has done is FAR better then what Killing Floor has done. Every single weapon with unique stats in that game is obtainable to free players quickly and easily via the ingame trading system (Not your stupid 'have someone drop it ingame so you can use it for ONE MATCH' excuse for this game), or by a cheap crafting recipe. It's so easy that I usually own all the new weapons for any update within a week, and despite having never spent a cent since I initially bought the game when it cost money, I have amassed a collection of every weapon ingame and even a venerable lineup of aesthetic items. http://www.tf2items.com/profiles/76561197976708740

I bought Killing Floor as well. Yet unlike TF2, I do not have access to every weapon with unique stats unless I fork out. So compared to TF2, what Killing Floor is doing is utter bull****.

But something tells me the Tripwire Defense Squad here doesn't really care about that.

 

[Kaly]

All the guys in denial are like "It's supporting the mod community you unselfish fool! This is clearly the ONLY thing they could possibly charge money for!"

No it isn't. How long has Tripwire been making money on player skins after the retail release?

Even though tripwire made those skins themselves if I recall. So that's really unrelated. And no one said its the only thing they could charge for. People said its the reason they have a price tag because its not tripwires work. If IJC wanted them free the pack would have been free. Not like tripwire would refuse to add dlc because "it wont bring them money". They added IJC's past weapons completely free of charge.

TF2 has done is FAR better then what Killing Floor has done.

Even though the community weapon pack costs 8 bucks and the pointless crappy ring which announces to the world you married someone over a game costs 100 dollars. Yeah Valve has done WAYYYY BETTER.

 

[Spicy]

Clearly they don't even care about keeping the game balanced and fun anymore. Either that, or they are incompetent at it. I don't know which is worse.

At that point, then why should we?

 

[hipnox]

At that point, then why should we?

Because i like the game?

Because i payed money for it?

Because i don't want it to suck?

Because i invested time coming to the forum, posting ideas, reporting bugs, chatting with others over a game we all enjoy?

All of the above?


Take your pick

 

[Kaly]

Because i like the game?

Because i payed money for it?

Because i don't want it to suck?

Because i invested time coming to the forum, posting ideas, reporting bugs, chatting with others over a game we all enjoy?

All of the above?


Take your pick

Hipnox. If you want weapons to be evened out to what you feel like then should maybe a mutator should be in order. Someone won't like the weapon nerfs and changes. Hell the m99 ammo nerf annoyed people.

A mutator is what we need. Something that gives us the control over weapons stats.

 

[Salad Snake]

I'll be honest, I do like variety. In fact, I need it. Had KF never received new weapons, and we were stuck with, say, the flamethrower-only firebug or 3 gun Commando I would have uninstalled the game long ago.

Say what you want about strategy and challenge, but I'm simply not the obsessive perfectionist type. Higher difficulties and achievements mean jack to me. The thing that keeps me around is the game itself changing and the toys becoming more numerous.

Hell, I even enjoy the Dynasty Warriors series. That should give an idea of how much challenge matters to me. I play videogames to relieve stress, socialize, and entertain myself, not to get any feeling of accomplishment. I have the other areas of my life to fulfill that drive.

 

[hipnox]

Hipnox. If you want weapons to be evened out to what you feel like then should maybe a mutator should be in order. Someone won't like the weapon nerfs and changes. Hell the m99 ammo nerf annoyed people.

A mutator is what we need. Something that gives us the control over weapons stats.

It would be wrong of me to assume that i'm fully capable of balancing the game to a point where everyone is happy. All i can really do is point at things that bother me personally and hope am with the majority.

The M99 nerf annoyed a lot of people because it wasn't well thought out and is almost like removing the gun entirely (which i wouldnt mind to be honest). The tweaked one variable and rolled with it, instead of really analyzing why it was OP and how to fine tune it. Basically, just TWI being lazy.

The thing is that i'm not a part of an active KF play groups. I play pubs. I like playing in pubs. I like that every time i play, every server room i play with is full of different people, with different play styles and skills.

Every once in a full moon i might play a LAN match here an there. I also have ping restrictions. On a normal day, the best ping i can expect form a US server is 160ms.

I would probably have a hard time finding an active server that runs a "kF Klassic" mutator, if it even exists.

Yes, a mutator might be the only viable solution at this time, but that doesn't mean i have to like it.

Players should not be forced to modify the game by removing content and features added by the developers in order to properly enjoy the game they bought.

 

[Arblarg]

Players should not be forced to modify the game by removing content and features added by the developers in order to properly enjoy the game they bought.

And vice versa. You're not the only person that bought the game in ever.

I would probably have a hard time finding an active server that runs a "kF Klassic" mutator, if it even exists.

Yes, a mutator might be the only viable solution at this time, but that doesn't mean i have to like it.

Then perhaps learn how to host yourself? I'm sure you're not the only person who lives within a 500 mile radius that has KF. Well, unless you live in Antarctica.

Also, why wouldn't you like a mutator if it had everything you want this game to be? Now that everything is auto-greylisted, you can use your perks. There is absolutely nothing you could complain about. When a game has a mod community, it is the developers obligation to do what they can to support the mod community. It means the life of their game. Now you can play whatever mut you want and not worry about losing your perks.

Don't forget that everybody has their own definition of fun.

 

[hipnox]

Don't forget that everybody has their own definition of fun.

I'm not arguing that. I never was. I don't like CoD, but others do. On the other hands, i love Stalker and i know a lot of people can't stand it.

I'm not arguing that the game is not fun for everybody. I'm sure a lot of people, be it new players or old veterans, like the game as it is now and the direction it's heading.

The point i'm trying to make, which many people seem not to get, is that:

The game WAS fun to me. I bought it when it WAS fun. The game CHANGED and no longer suits what i find fun. I'm arguing from the point of a customer that bought a product that no longer resembles what it was at the time of the purchase. By the hand of the developers, the game changed and is no longer appealing to me.

I shouldn't be forced to mod the game (a game i liked when i bought and had no reason to modify it) in order to enjoy it like i did when i purchased it.

Game don't need to change in order to stay alive. Heck, Vanilla Starcraft is still being played today.

 

[dangercake]

To be honest many of the modders in kf mod for the hell of it. I do it because its fun. Interesting. And many possibilities with the ut2004 engine. I don't care if I get paid for a mod or whatever I care if people use it. Add it to their servers. And give credit. ITS JUST ONE DLC and twi doesn't even get money from it. Also how is this ridiculous look at tf2...... =p well there's my say in this.

 

[neonmodder]

Even though the community weapon pack costs 8 bucks and the pointless crappy ring which announces to the world you married someone over a game costs 100 dollars. Yeah Valve has done WAYYYY BETTER.

Yeah, because the rings have an effect on gameplay and the community weapons aren't easily crafted with the dozens of spare weapons you get every week. I guess you dont play TF2 that much, so maybe you dont know that every weapon in the game that has its own unique stats can be obtained without paying anything. Buying just gets you it instantly if you're really impatient.



My point being that the TF2 system manages to make it so all players have access to anything with an effect on gameplay free of charge, and aesthetic items are the only things that are locked to paying players, and even then a vast majority of aesthetic items can be obtained for free too. And yet at the same time they manage to make money and distribute it to the community modders who made those items by offering the items instantly for a price as opposed to having to trade/gather items for crafting those items. This is a fair system. Which is more then I can say for this fiasco with the pay-only weapons in Killing Floor.

If they made it so that you could buy these community weapons for a price or alternatively if you reach a certain rank for certain classes, like lets say if you reach rank 5 as commando you get the Thompson or whatever, then no one would have any issues with it. I wouldn't even mind if they went back and changed those other community-made weapons to work the same way, like the medic assault rifle being limited to level 5 or 6 medics unless you choose to buy it so you can use it immediately.

 

[Enju93]

It's quite sad.

It's quite sad.

The amount of entitlement in KF forums mindboggling, at least for me.

I don't have the luxury of having time to whine about everything I like/don't like, since real world problems usually take over... You know a day job to get money to live?

But my take on all this is just that if you are really so vain to complain about 1 update (again?) in my opinion one of the most fun/ worth the money games on the market, you should really think over why you ever played the game.

The DLC weapons (Buzzsaw & Scythe mainly) yes are op and yes hurt the already bad balance of the HoE scene, but the update has been around for a fairly short time, and more updates will come most likely, and free ones at that. So I just don't agree with the finger pointing that always seems so start so profound after each and every update.

And even id TWI had promised not to charge for weapons DLCs, whis was a a peaceful gesture towards the mod community and still was just 1 DLC/Update in the many updates the game has had.

And in the end if it's really 1 update/DLC that makes you not able to enjoy the game the way you'd like be it a player who plays HoE hardcore, or a modder who likes to stuff his server full of wonky stuff.

I just think you need to search for something else to play, since at least my life is too short to be compaining about things and not having fun playing games I enjoy to play in my short free time.

I'm still thankful to TWI for bringing updates more or less frequently to a 3 year old game and not going "Here's the box enjoy" and buggering off. And I still enjoy KF on every difficulty very much.

This is my first and probably last post on any forum ever since I don't really have the time. It just saddens me to see ppl think this way.

 

[Kaly]

It would be wrong of me to assume that i'm fully capable of balancing the game to a point where everyone is happy.

Never said everyone would be happy with your tweaks. That is the whole point of having the weapons fined tuned to what YOU think is right. Since its impossible to make everyone happy. Atleast one person wouldn't like the settings and when you change it maybe two or three other people might hate the new settings, etc.

 

[Kaly]

Yeah, because the rings have an effect on gameplay and the community weapons aren't easily crafted with the dozens of spare weapons you get every week. I guess you dont play TF2 that much, so maybe you dont know that every weapon in the game that has its own unique stats can be obtained without paying anything. Buying just gets you it instantly if you're really impatient.

So let me get this straight? You want tripwire to make the weapons be obtained by achievements? Next its gonna be a drop system because the achievements are too hard. Next it will be trading because your friend has a weapon you want.

And then we suddenly have tf2! A pointless stock market simulator where the only pub servers that seem to be popular are ones where you stand in and die or those where you try to sell off silly hats. Sorry I rather have paid dlc than a god awful stock market simulator any day.

If they made it so that you could buy these community weapons for a price or alternatively if you reach a certain rank for certain classes, like lets say if you reach rank 5 as commando you get the Thompson or whatever, then no one would have any issues with it. I wouldn't even mind if they went back and changed those other community-made weapons to work the same way, like the medic assault rifle being limited to level 5 or 6 medics unless you choose to buy it so you can use it immediately.

Considering there is a thing called "cheat engine" which lets you mess with the games values in single player to max your perks without being VAC banned makes that a horrible idea.

 

[KiCk3R]

I just HAD to wade on this topic that's been plaguing the forums recently.

Just so you are aware, I have made community maps since KF Mod days. So feel, I have a decent say in this.

The matter of TWI charging a DLC to The Consumer is of no concern to you. You either purchase it, or don't.

TWI have continuously supported the KF Community by offering free content for the past 2 years. That's - Free Maps / Free Guns / Extra Eye Candy.
I don't believe the community has really appreciated the time and effort for the free content that's been released to us.

The very moment that TWI started to offer paid content the community threw their toys out of their pram. Take "Ash" for example. Why the heck do you want to play as a girl character? - I know I certainly don't care. There are plenty of other FREE characters to play.

The matter of a weapon DLC should also not be a concern to you. You have a complete ARSENAL of weapons to choose from. So what if other players use paid DLC weapons. Its still the same effect... blood and gore.

I think alot of players on here are just complaining because they feel they can. If you don't like the direction of KF, go play some other games that don't offer free content.

Lets all get off our high horse, put the toys back into the pram. And start getting back into the game!!!

 

[neonmodder]

Considering there is a thing called "cheat engine" which lets you mess with the games values in single player to max your perks without being VAC banned makes that a horrible idea.

Here's a shocking concept: How about FIXING whatever loophole the hackers are using to max out their perks. Fixing loopholes that are being abused by cheaters should be the number one priority of any online game.

 

[Kaly]

Here's a shocking concept: How about FIXING whatever loophole the hackers are using to max out their perks. Fixing loopholes that are being abused by cheaters should be the number one priority of any online game.

Here is a shocking story: last people who blocked their hex values ended up a buggy *** game which in turn got them fired. "rip eden games" and if tripwire did block their values it would mean alot more things being blocked which it turn could mess up the modding community if they don't have access to such values.

And don't tell me they should serverside their perks because keeping a database full of everyone's perks is not easy and what are they supposed to do is something bad happens? What if the perk servers are down and you cannot access your precious weapons?