Small ammount of players

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Gopblin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
124
24
0
What I don't understand. I'm a Classic player all the way. Why are other (veteran) people who didn't enjoy RO2 at the start give it another try? Is it ego? For sure it can't be the competition. Because it is true, if the game would be like it is now, the complaints would be less less aggressive and most people would be happy (I guess).

Again: Sarkis. your Signature is pretty obviously racist and even if I'm not a brownish black girl I feel offended by it.

There is not enough people left. I played Classic for a while and was good but it got to where I couldn't find good servers.

Also, Sarkis's signature is innocent, black brown girl in the context means "black hair, blue eyes". Google it.

Best wishes,
Daniel
 

affenjunge

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
76
30
0
under the floor, austria
Vets did give it another try. Until you accept that the mode is not widely liked, even though you like it, you will not understand why it was rejected. Its no use pretending Classic came too late, or that people don't know how good it really is. I have heard enough excuses already. Classic is not a good mode. If it was, it would be more popular than Realism at this point. Even custom mode has more players. The only obvious reason is because Classic is not really that good.
Like it's my subjective view that Classic is good, it's your subjective view that it ain't. Fact is that Classic incoperates features that many user were asking for back then.

No it ain't. Wrong about one thing, wrong about another...
We can argue about the one thing, but it's true it's really not. I apologize. I should have done my google homework before accusing you. But the thing with the dark brownish girl staying at home while the others are going through the german gate sounded kind of strange. Again, I'm sorry.



What RO2 could truly benefit from is to amend Classic's best features with Realism's best features, and have it as a new mode. Such as Yoshiro's Realism with Classic Loadouts, a setting that is VASTLY more popular than Classic Mode. Or a variation of that such as Proud God's Refined Realism. Or maybe something more exquisite such as an Authentic mode of sorts.

A game RO2 could really steal many features from is Medal of Honor: Warfighter. Their cover system is much more refined and simple than ours. Ours is actually pretty laughable, poor mappers having to place stuff all over the map so that mantling and cover works.
I would probably prefer one mode over the cluster**** that RO is now. I would even play realism if there would be the classic loadouts but I'm not to sure if this would bring players back.
 

Sarkis.

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 6, 2012
1,467
29
0
Like it's my subjective view that Classic is good, it's your subjective view that it ain't. Fact is that Classic incoperates features that many user were asking for back then.

And fact is that these users were wrong about a great many deal of those features, such as the current crazy zoom characteristics. Fact is that Classic is unpopular regardless of you liking it or I disliking it.

I would probably prefer one mode over the cluster**** that RO is now. I would even play realism if there would be the classic loadouts but I'm not to sure if this would bring players back.

It probably would bring many back, because we've seen the evidence in the form of many complaints and polls and declarations of the hate for excessive captured weapons and prototypes and too many semiautomatics and fully automatics etc. A lot more solid evidence that there ever was for the supposed demand for action mode for instance.

Classic would benefit from Realism Mode's zoom. Realism would benefit from ARMA style zoom. Realism would benefit from a mixture with Classic's loadouts and slots. Classic would benefit from Realism's character speeds. Realism would benefit from Classic's damage hitboxes. Realism would benefit from Rogue Spear's hitboxes. Realism would benefit from Classic's Spawn on Squad Leader feature disabled. Classic would benefit from Realism's on demand ''radar/compass'', instead of being forced. Etc..

There is a very clear path forward for RO2 to improve. A beautiful road of consensus and common sense that would pave the way for the fine tuning of RO2's gameplay.
Make it more interesting, make it more popular, make it sell more, and expand the franchise, so we have the capability of pumping more content, vehicles weapons, uniforms and all the goodies that we collectively need and want.

But instead.... we pander to the wishes of a very restricted few who state very unintelligently: ''Keep your fingers out of my perfect Realism Mode!! ''... ''Damn kids on my lawn!'' ''Don't put your filthy Zoom on my beloved Classic Mode!! AT gunners are supposed to be blind don't you know!?''

Some people very naively come to this forum and suggest that we reform the progression system, make something more sensible out of it. I for instance asked for requirements of unlocks to be lowered, so we would have an easier time achieving them, and less people using their play time grinding.

To increase Classic's stamina it took months... probably because 3 people didn't want it, because they had some fun theory on how increasing it would make classic a mode for mainstreamers a little bit more.

I can only imagine the resistance to equalizing both modes in regards to zoom. Probably why I haven't created a thread about that yet. Sounds like a plan! :D The Zoom systems in fact need all sorts of improvements..

As another example, RO2 has a nice system of damage for tanks that allow their guns to be taken out, or even immobilize the turret's rotation. But for some shady reason TWI unmade that system as the default, and now it is nowhere to be seen, unless server admins take the time to put it back in the webadmin. Why they did that? Makes no sense. We need to go forwards never backwards!
 

TrOOper

Active member
Jul 19, 2006
542
74
28
your moms house!
Well since you seem to know so much about the game you enjoy... explain then, why the RO2 that we all appreciate, does not seem to be too much popular, since, as you seem to suggest, it is the most perfect game ever made.

well, evidently you have a problem reading...no where did i say it was the most perfect game....i said i was enjoying it.. i agree it has flaws, much like most of your opinions.....we are certainly honored to have someone who knows everything and is always right about everything on this forum....
 

Sensemann

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 10, 2009
1,147
269
0
Shanghai, China
sorry to pedantic, but Barashka was a TWI official map.. also if you're gonna complain about rifle camping in here, it was 100% worse in RO1 since everyone was slower and it took much longer to get a proper shot off. But of course in RO1 its just legitimate tactical holding, while in RO2 its just OMFG N00B CAMPERS.

No double standards or anything..

Wrong. In RO 1, you could see enough riflemen constantly pushing into the capzone because that was "the easy way" to step up on the score list. In RO 2, campers (how much I hate the word, it's tactical positioning) that stay out of the capzone, shooting into the capzone, because 1 kill gives you 40% of the points of capping it.
 

CocaineInMyBrain

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
1,131
40
0
Wrong. In RO 1, you could see enough riflemen constantly pushing into the capzone because that was "the easy way" to step up on the score list. In RO 2, campers (how much I hate the word, it's tactical positioning) that stay out of the capzone, shooting into the capzone, because 1 kill gives you 40% of the points of capping it.

By your logic of point whoring, people in RO2 should be much more inclined to be inside cap since you get +5 for killing from a cap zone and killing someone in a cap zone. If you were outside you'd only get the +3, some times just the 1 point, since if you are in some far off corner sniping you're likely picking off people that are on the way to caps and not the people actually in caps. Also capping also gives you much more points in RO2 as long as there are others with you, unlike in RO1 where it was just a flat 10, and you didn't even get points for defending the cap. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

By the way, the easy way to pad your points as Riflemen in RO1 was to indefinitely trail behind MGs and feed off the +5 resupply points, much less dangerous and much more reliable.
 
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Sensemann

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 10, 2009
1,147
269
0
Shanghai, China
By your logic of point whoring, people in RO2 should be much more inclined to be inside cap since you get +5 for killing from a cap zone and killing someone in a cap zone. If you were outside you'd only get the +3, some times just the 1 point, since if you are in some far off corner sniping you're likely picking off people that are on the way to caps and not the people actually in caps. Also capping also gives you much more points in RO2 as long as there are others with you, unlike in RO1 where it was just a flat 10, and you didn't even get points for defending the cap. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

By the way, the easy way to pad your points as Riflemen in RO1 was to indefinitely trail behind MGs and feed off the +5 resupply points, much less dangerous and much more reliable.

That would hurt their K/d ratio of course. Which is regarded as the most important point for many players (that care about stats).

See? The system simply sucks, no way around it.
 

affenjunge

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
76
30
0
under the floor, austria
It probably would bring many back, because we've seen the evidence in the form of many complaints and polls and declarations of the hate for excessive captured weapons and prototypes and too many semiautomatics and fully automatics etc. A lot more solid evidence that there ever was for the supposed demand for action mode for instance.
But these polls also implied that Classic Mode would be way more popular than it actually is now. People stated in the Poll by TWI that they want a more realistic game. I'm pretty sure that even Classic may not be Realistic in a way that everything is the same as IRL but for sure it plays more realisticly. Yes it's slower, but for thats a good thing. You just cannot apply real life statistics into a computer game and expect it to turn out to be super realistic. For obvious reason people behave differently when there life is not at stake.

Classic would benefit from Realism Mode's zoom. Realism would benefit from ARMA style zoom. Realism would benefit from a mixture with Classic's loadouts and slots. Classic would benefit from Realism's character speeds. Realism would benefit from Classic's damage hitboxes. Realism would benefit from Rogue Spear's hitboxes. Realism would benefit from Classic's Spawn on Squad Leader feature disabled. Classic would benefit from Realism's on demand ''radar/compass'', instead of being forced. Etc..

There is a very clear path forward for RO2 to improve. A beautiful road of consensus and common sense that would pave the way for the fine tuning of RO2's gameplay.
I think we have almost full agreement here. The thing is, with this kind of thinking RO2 would be a complete other beast from the beginning. But it wasn't and I don't think that RO2 will be complete other game in the years to come. Maybe TWI learned something from that, maybe not. I'm sorry but I lean to the latter.
 

BlackLabel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 9, 2007
3,137
1,063
0
Churmany
I just don't understand why so many people are so emotionally invested in how many people are playing a video game. First World Problems, certainly.

People played Ro almost religiously. And as it has been aforementioned it took time to be good and than another amouth of time to be good in a clanenviroment/competitive play.

We hoped for a continuation of that, but, that dident happen.

I probably will try RS and only because really like toni and what they did or attempt to do with RS.
 

Graphic

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2006
470
241
0
Nevada
I think RO2 has failed to gain a huge following due to its precarious place in a market that is completely different than 2006. It does something (realism) that is either deeper in other games (namely ArmA 2) or done half-assed in more arcadey games ("hardcore" mode) but is good enough for some people.

There's something inherent in the design of the game that isn't striking a chord with potential customers. I've seen worse games become several times more popular by word of mouth. Sadly I feel like if RO2 was gonna "make it" it would have by now. The Steam news isn't going to pop up after someone finishes playing TF2 with a thing that says "Red Orchestra 2: GOTY. Now with a StuG III!" and suddenly thousands of people are going to go "NO WAAAAAIIIIII!!! Now I GOTTA buy it!"

It's not the end of the world, the game can survive and be enjoyable with a small community for a long time. I just think people should give up the dream of this suddenly becoming a hit years after it's been released.
 

Cyper

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2011
1,291
1,005
113
Sweden
I think RO2 has failed to gain a huge following due to its precarious place in a market that is completely different than 2006. It does something (realism) that is either deeper in other games (namely ArmA 2) or done half-assed in more arcadey games ("hardcore" mode) but is good enough for some people.

There's something inherent in the design of the game that isn't striking a chord with potential customers. I've seen worse games become several times more popular by word of mouth. Sadly I feel like if RO2 was gonna "make it" it would have by now. The Steam news isn't going to pop up after someone finishes playing TF2 with a thing that says "Red Orchestra 2: GOTY. Now with a StuG III!" and suddenly thousands of people are going to go "NO WAAAAAIIIIII!!! Now I GOTTA buy it!"

It's not the end of the world, the game can survive and be enjoyable with a small community for a long time. I just think people should give up the dream of this suddenly becoming a hit years after it's been released.

In terms of popularity, I see it in two ways: the game can become popular and praised by the fans or it can become popular and praised by the mainstream audience, or both - even though I have never seen that.



The story with RO2 is nothing new.

I can draw direct similarities to games like ''Operation Flashpoint'' Dragon Rising, Splinter Cell, Rainbow Six, Brothers in Arms: Furious Four, Hitman...

First off it is incredibly hard to re-lit the magic found in a bottle... e.i to be as good as the original game. No matter if we're talking about RO OST or ArmA Cold War Crisis.

Second; Appealing to the core fans of any niche game and at the same time trying to appeal to the mainstream is very difficult and I have never seen any game succeed in this goal. The game have either become an instant fail (Operation Flashpoint: Red River, Brothers in Arms: Furious Four), or only managed to appeal to the mainstream (current Splinter Cell games), or have failed to appeal to both its core fans and the mainstream.

Brothers in Arms: Furious four failed not after it's release, but before it's release. The first trailer caused extreme amount of negative response. So much that Gearbox and Ubi decided to change the IP of the game.

Hitman Absolution is somewhat in the same situation as RO2. User reviews, and fans complaints, is quite similar: streamlined levels, lack of freeroaming, lack of specific features such as a rifle suitcase, certain animations, and by far the most popular line: Blood money is better, this is not like blood money blabla'' then someone reply how the game must evolve and not just become Blood Money in HD.

The reason to why games like Splinter Cell succeeded by making it more accessible was simply because they never did appeal to their fans. They abandoned their fans and focused 100% on developing a simple game, easy for all, and that's precicely why they succeeded with their formula.

There is people who play all kinds of games and never care about changes. Those who jump from game to game. Then there is people who may also play all kinds of games, but are religiously stuck for certain games. If BIS dumbed down ARMA III by even making slight changes such as less commands, simplified weaponhandling, and some sort of progression system, the game would lose huge amount of players. If taken further the game would be abandoned by the fans. In a situation like that, one can only hope that the game is dumbed down enough to draw casual players to it, but this is rarely the case, which means that the game ends up aiming at an audience that doesn't exist.


Now,

What about Rising Storm?

I believe that it will follow the same way as RO2. And this will most likely just make history repeat itself. I really hope that Rising Storm will feel like a more solid experience.

But I don't know. What decision should be taken? What are the consequenses?
 

Dionysos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 6, 2006
289
49
0
Just wanted to drop in during one of my increasingly rare visits and commend Sarkis amongst many for bringing some of the main issues to the fore. It's hard to precisely formulate why I'm probably never going to be playing RO2 as much as I've played RO1 over the years, but the most accurate one-word reason is probably that it's relatively bland compared to RO1.

That might seem strange since it arguably has many more (often good) features over RO1. However since it's been created to appeal to both the "leveling up" crowd and the old school people (for want of a better word, I know it's not that homogeneous) it feels like it lacks the kind of strong character RO1 had. RO1 had many rough edges due to its "indie"/modding origin. Some I could've done without. But overall, not having been created with a "professional" mindset gave it a much more distinctive feel and experience, as is so often the case with indie games. Imo.

I also don't think that's something tripwire really realized (or if they did, cared about) after RO1, so I don't think this will ever be addressed in RO2, a RO3 or Rising Storm. Sad, but life goes on.
 

ARMY guy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 16, 2011
278
202
0
Cleveland OH
I made the mistake of buying iron front on the steam sale yesterday and wow how can you say ro2 is bad next to playing that piece? It made me actually like ro2 even more !
 

CocaineInMyBrain

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 8, 2011
1,131
40
0
That would hurt their K/d ratio of course. Which is regarded as the most important point for many players (that care about stats).

See? The system simply sucks, no way around it.


So because one guy posts his high k/d on the forums (which is more likely than not artificially inflated by bot-farming), we are all suddenly n00b *** k/d whores?

Btw, being in cap is probably the most consistent way of getting kills as rifleman, as long as you know how to position yourself within the cap and know when to disengage. So your point is moot regardless, as we're not judging a game and its mechanics based on the lowest common denominator.
 

Gudenrath

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 23, 2011
2,135
313
0
It ain't. That's the whole point of the discussion. You like it, I like it. But a ton of people, probably the majority of those who bought the game, don't.

Huh? Where do you get that impression from? That's sheer nonsense as the server statistics clearly shows. If anything it is classic that most players doesn't like.
 

Sarkis.

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 6, 2012
1,467
29
0
Huh? Where do you get that impression from? That's sheer nonsense as the server statistics clearly shows. If anything it is classic that most players doesn't like.

Nonsense!?

''By most business measures Red Orchestra 2 has been a smashing success for Tripwire Interactive. Within 2 days of the launch of the game it had surpassed the lifetime revenue of the original Red Orchestra that has been selling for over 5 years. The pre-sales and launch week sales of the game broke all company records, even beating out our hit game Killing Floor by a three-fold margin. But for all of this success we
 

Cyper

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 25, 2011
1,291
1,005
113
Sweden
I made the mistake of buying iron front on the steam sale yesterday and wow how can you say ro2 is bad next to playing that piece? It made me actually like ro2 even more !

I never bought it at release due to the fact that I couldn't get my hands on a physical copy and I can't still do that.

How is the game bad? Is it just all the bugs, glitches, and unstable gameplay?