Showcase kill/hour ratio as well in the stats overview

[Zetsumei]

In the gametrailers video you see the stat overview for Red Orchestra. It states your total kills and total deaths. But it fails to state how many minutes you played for those kills and deaths.

It would be really nice if you could see the quantification of time. Like kills/hour and deaths/hour together with the current display. As absolute numbers are hard to compare when some people have played the game for 3 years and some have played the game for a week.

Since accuracy is displayed for weapons, how will that affect for instance suppression. When suppressing someone you don't try to hit someone yet can still be accurate.

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As an example these competitive matches:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h4g8qw.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/x43ux5.jpg

With a pure K/D ratio I would be classed as having a better killing performance than Miller & Kinglol. While they were much more important for the teams victory due to the sheer amount of their kills. In the screenshots above as we all played for an equal amount of time you can see quantitative info about the kills we made, allowing you to see that truly miller was better than me.

Kills/Hour allows you to give some additional information about the quantity.

 

[OnbekendeSoldaat]

I dont like to see all the stats, the camping will get worser with the k/d and with the accuracy you can't surpress the enemy. This game is almost cod

 

[Zetsumei]

I'm liking it in one way as I like to see my stats, but I do not like the possible negative effect on gameplay it could have.

But if people post there stats in screenshots and such, it should have information like Kill/Hour. As someone might have a 1000000:1 kill/death ratio, if he only makes 1 kill per map, he's utterly useless to his team.

 

[Dsquad]

Just get rid of the stats please... They have absolutely no purpose whatsoever. Kills with a certain weapon is fine, but K/D? I don't know what they where thinking.

 

[aD.Luoson]

I welcome the stats personally, the more infomation the better imo

 

[Makino]

Since accuracy is displayed for weapons, how will that affect for instance suppression. When suppressing someone you don't try to hit someone yet can still be accurate.

Agreed, accuracy is kind of weird with the suppression system.

 

[Prussian Warrior]

I agree with Dsquad, they should get rid of the k/d stats.

 

[[TW]schneidzekk]

How many threads are you going to start about K/D stuff Zets?

 

[bazookatooth]

I dont like to see all the stats, the camping will get worser with the k/d and with the accuracy you can't surpress the enemy. This game is almost cod

I've had just about enough of these control freak types. You do realize if they left it out that someone could easily add it to the game and there is nothing you could do about it? Plus you are just pulling stuff out of a hat to say. You have no proof whatsoever that it would change how people play the game. Maybe you have a problem with screwing over your team for the sake of a few kills, but the vast majority of players that I've seen in RO1 do not.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

How many threads are you going to start about K/D stuff Zets?

It is important stuff =).

If the world could focus more on kills/minute (as it was back in the good ol' FFA games days a.la quake/doom) instead of kills/deaths, I bet peopel would in general be more happy.

With K/D you get an issue with campers, with kill/minute you get a problem with rambos. But if people rambo around for kills, then the camper will get more for camping and a balance is found that should be quite satisfactory =).

 

[Zetsumei]

How many threads are you going to start about K/D stuff Zets?

Till a Kills/Hour ratio gets added as well .

Kills/Death makes people focus on staying alive over, discouraging people to capture or attack. Kills/Hour will make people focus on killing the enemy so the map can be won. I don't say remove the K/D ratio but adding a K/H ratio would make game play less detrimental if people end up focussing on improving their statistics.

Showcasing both allows people to get an indication how someone performs. If someone got a high K/D and a low kills/hour ratio it will show that someone isn't really an important player to his team. And if someone got a high kills/hour and a low K/D shows that someone is wasting reinforcements.

with kill/minute you get a problem with rambos.

That depends on the time to get back in the action, in the Red Orchestra Mod it took 1-2 minutes after you died to get back in the action (respawn time + walking back to where the action was). This means that if you died, you missed out on a 2 minute period time where you could make have made kills instead. Meaning that to obtain a high Kills/Hour ratio you needed to stay alive.

For that reason in the old stats page (check out www.rostats.com in internet history) the top rated people with a high K/H ratio were often rifleman, that didn't necessarily Rambo.

but the main thing is that with a K/D ratio and a K/H ratio you can see both a term showing the quality of someone's kills and the quantity of someone's kills. So people can show the statistics of how they truly perform without only showing one end of it. Allowing you to separate the people with a high k/d ratio that never make any kills and people with a high k/d ratio that actually try to push the attack forward.

 

[Morello]

Well then the counter-argument is that people who suppress rather than kill are potentially not going to get a high k/d ratio or a high k/hour ratio despite closing vital parts of the map and being invaluable to the team. Likewise if people are running into the objectives to capture or defend it they are more likely to be killed, and not get kills themselves, than people who sit back, so again your argument doesn't hold water. You are never going to get a stat that shows the whole picture, so either you put every stat you can possibly think of in or you forget about it. Having said that, if it is easy to add and they are putting all the other meaningless numbers in, they might as well do it for those who are desperate.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

True, I guess the problem would be more "discouraging" people to cover areas the enemy less frequently are at.

Anyhow, no doubt its way better than K/D. They might as well remove K/D, people who wants to know it can calculate it themselves =).

If K/D is presented, it sort of hints that the game is about just that =(.

But yea, Score/minute is undoubtly the "best" simple numerical measurement of someones "public skill" =). Right?

 

[Zetsumei]

You are never going to get a stat that shows the whole picture, so either you put every stat you can possibly think of in or you forget about it.

The key is not about showing a stat for the whole picture, as it is about making sure that if people try to maximize their stats that they do not ruin the chances for their team fun and victory . I'd be fine without a K/D and K/H ratio, but if you have a K/D ratio you should have a K/H ratio as well, to ensure that stat whores keep attacking.

You're never going to get every stat that shows the whole picture. But showcasing K/H allows you to see if someone is making his K/D ratio good on purpose by laming.

K/H is an opposite of K/D and having both makes exploiting less easy to do.
People trying to improve their K/D ratio often do it by staying at a safe spot and simply hardly making any kills, which would show in the K/H ratio. And people that try to Rambo for a K/H ratio can be caught by their K/D ratio.

I don't want to play a map like Basovka attack where everybody on the axis side goes rifleman and tries to pick off people, with nobody trying to capture the first trenches.

 

[Dsquad]

How many threads are you going to start about K/D stuff Zets?

Not enough imo. Don't get me wrong, i love TWI and all your games, but i feel like you're making a huge mistake with this stats thing. I play bc2 and everybody rates you at your K/D stats, you can support the team all you want. Heal them, give them ammo, 'suppress' a sniper, but they still call you a noob if you have a K/D of 0,9. I hoped death messages where gone in this game, but having K/D is on the whole other side of the spectrum.

 

[Reise]

You're never going to get every stat that shows the whole picture. But showcasing K/H allows you to see if someone is making his K/D ratio good on purpose by laming.

K/H is an opposite of K/D and having both makes exploiting less easy to do.
People trying to improve their K/D ratio often do it by staying at a safe spot and simply hardly making any kills, which would show in the K/H ratio. And people that try to Rambo for a K/H ratio can be caught by their K/D ratio.

I don't want to play a map like Basovka attack where everybody on the axis side goes rifleman and tries to pick off people, with nobody trying to capture the first trenches.

And how does having a teamwork score not also give you this information?

If someone has a high K/D and low teamscore you already have your ballpark idea of their "contribution" to the team's success. As if killing people to reduce reinfocement tickets isn't enough...

TBH I don't care if there is a K/H counter or not, adding one would be simple. I just find it so strange to fight so adamantly for it, it's almost like you won't stop until you can say something you suggested made it into the game Zets.

 

[Zetsumei]

And how does having a teamwork score not also give you this information?

If someone has a high K/D and low teamscore you already have your ballpark idea of their "contribution" to the team's success. As if killing people to reduce reinfocement tickets isn't enough...

TBH I don't care if there is a K/H counter or not, adding one would be simple. I just find it so strange to fight so adamantly for it, it's almost like you won't stop until you can say something you suggested made it into the game Zets.

Kills/Hour wasn't my suggestion, It was even was there in UT2004 and the original Red Orchestra mod, and loads of other games. I wouldn't be surprised if TWI would end up adding K/H with or without me posting these posts.

K/D ratio isn't killing people to reduce reinforcement tickets as you stated its about making sure you use up less reinforcement tickets than you destroy. Kills/Deaths is how efficient you are for your team, its not an indication whether you are at destroying the enemy teams reinforcements, that is exactly what Kills/Hour shows, quantity info.

I've seen the damage of K/D ratios in a lot of games, and I've seen the damage being undone by K/H ratios. That's why I fight for a K/H ratio now we know that we have a K/D ratio in the game. I care for RO, and since TWI wants killing performance statistics in there, I want to reduce possible damage as much as possible.

When displaying a score for killing performance you can bet that loads of people will try to optimize that over their team score. Which is why for public play I've always stated that I prefer to have a combined score info over one for teamwork and killing (beside issues with statistically combining them correctly).

But since a K/D ratio is confirmed in there, I push for a K/H ratio as I've always done in threads about K/D ratios. Exactly because Kills/Hour show how quickly someone dwindles the enemy reinforcements, which combined with efficiency allows you to make a much better prediction of someone's killing performance.

And once statistics about killing performance are in there, its exactly those statistics that people will optimize. And if they do so I rather have it actually help the team by both not wasting your teams reinforcements (K/D) and making sufficient kills (K/H).

 

[Zetsumei]

As an example this competitive match:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h4g8qw.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/x43ux5.jpg

With a pure K/D ratio I would be classed as having a better killing performance than Miller & Kinglol. While they were much more important for the teams victory due to the sheer amount of their kills.

Kills/Hour allows you to give some additional information about the quantity.

 

[Reise]

Anyone who understands the significance of K/D in RO can figure that out without K/H though.

Especially with the Teamwork score, something you still seem to ignore.

Why would any competitive Ro2 player, including yourself, just pay attention to K/D and want to increase only their K/D when they know that is only just a piece of the whole picture?

And why would anyone who sees someone else just padding their K/D take them seriously or consider them a team asset?

In Ro2 the stats seem to be diverse enough to show how well you do in a particular class, where things like K/D may be more important than total teamscore (like sniper or MG). So if someone is really curious, they can look at the details and see if the guy who has padded his way to 50:1 K/D has any worth in a teamplay sense.

Anyway I'm not sure why I keep replying, I figure I'll just stop for good here. IMO no harm is done to the game by leaving K/H out or putting it in, it just doesn't seem significant enough to warrant all this writing.

 

[Zetsumei]

Teamwork scores are fickle things to get correctly and take into account all info. In a clan match pretty much everybody works as one, so in that sense the teamwork score should be equal for every player, yet that isn't the case in Roost. I got a low team play score as I'm defending a back entrance, and thus do not cap, and do not get cap points. And I'm good at using voip comms, yet do not get points for that either.

Sure you can figure out in a match without looking at stats who is better, but then you come to a point why have a score in a scoreboard at all. And on a 64 player server it would get pretty difficult to create your own opinion for every player.

A scoreboard is there to make it easy to see an indication of what someone's performance is. And when showing killing performance, I hoped to show with my screen shot example that a K/D ratio isn't enough information for that.

I rather have a MG that is making 100 kills with 20 deaths, than one with 10 kills and 1 death. And i think that it's fundamentally wrong to make a mg with 10 kills and 1 death appear as double as good as one with 100 kills and 20 deaths on the scoreboard.

Ps. Even with a teamwork score. If you want to compare scores it should be displayed like Points/Hour. Otherwise someone that played the map for 30 minutes would logically have a much higher teamwork score than someone that played for 5 minutes.