Should "relaxed realism" mode be limited to single player only?

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Should "relaxed realism" mode be limited to single player only?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 46 41.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 65 58.6%

  • Total voters
    111

213

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2009
917
371
0
there's a hit indicator, for one. and i don't think they'd make a distinction between relaxed realism and realism if one wasn't less challenging. that's the whole reason for its being. so new players can get adjusted to the game in a less challenging environment.
 

Rumo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 3, 2006
714
159
0
Vienna; Austria
If we go by Yoshis example of OFP, or both ArmAs for that matter, I do forsee a problem:

If you want to play as realisticly as possible, you'll have to either wait for a very long time for a server to fill up, or only play in organized games, as most of the servers, and especially most of the populated servers will be running the "Cadet"/"relaxed realism" mode.

IMHO, this doesn't make the community grow, it rather causes a rift and will create a second, presumably much larger "relaxed" community. Which, in the long run, will mean a decline and possibly extinction for us few "hardcore" people, as TW will focus on the larger audience rather than us few bitter, moaning and complaining realism loving players.

And fedorov: It's human nature that makes me predict this. The people in general will always use the easiest way. Just like most people start games on "easy".
The breed of gamers like me, who play games exclusively on the highest available difficulty (and only backing down if I can't possibly beat it that way), isn't dying, but as it's only a tiny niche, is getting less and less games catered to their tastes.

Of course, we don't know how much of a difference "relaxed realism" means in the end, but still, the option is a step in the wrong direction IMHO.

Unless relaxed realism means it's like RO today and hardcore mode would incorporate many loved "features" (even though Ramm certainly disagrees on those to be features...) like a simple sketch without GPS for an overview map, so you have to figure out where you are by yourself. Or capping indicators. Or announcement scrolls...
I do doubt it will be that way though.
Listen to rattus. He got it right.
And yes Yoshiro, that even means you...:p
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
12,881
3,863
113
No, rattus doesn't have it right. That is his opinion, and we all have our own on the subject. But the great thing that makes my opinion better then yours is, you don't understand relaxed realism mode, and I do :) It isn't "easy mode, realism gone!" Read Ramm's post on the subject.
 

[-project.rattus-]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,036
371
0
37
Austria
www.youtube.com
Well, noone here even hinted that the relaxed realism would be turning RO in an arcade fest.
And I still love you, TW-Guys, for bringing me the longest period of time I enjoyed a game. Not even WoW could pull me away from RO!

But I still remain sceptical. And my point was that even minor changes do very greatly alter how the game is played.
Let's just take a look at OFP/ARMA. Even on the lowest realism setting it is heaps more realistic in what it does than any other game of that scale (despite a hitpoint tank system, crosshairs etc). It features some things very similar to the relaxed realism features: a GPS style navigation system, in World view of Objectives and Waypoints, friendly units and spotted enemy units on the map. Still, the gameplay mechanics remain the same. The guns aren't more accurate, you don't have more health, thus it should remain basically the same game, shouldn't it?
But it doesn't. A mission plays very, very differently if you have to figure out your position with a compass and a map, and constantly update it while you advance. You engange troops more cautiously if you don't instantly and magically know what side they're from. You are less perceptive of your surroundings if you can artificially pinpoint the enemy when he opens fire...

Of course, due to the nature of RO, some of these things are never possible, because for example the maps lack the scale so they're learned pretty fast, rendering the map to be quite without use except to check which objectives belong to whom. But still, I think my point is valid that the additional Info available to the players changes how the game is played, and more importantly what skills are needed to win.
With your relaxed realism mode (and on those linear maps, which ramm assured us won't be the only ones in ROHoS), you basically reduce the skills you need to succeed in the game to being a good shot.
And IMHO that reduces the general appeal and the replayability of it. But then, I'm one of those obscure types who find tremendous enjoyment in crawling through bushes and thickets for more than an hour to get behind an enemy position, just to be shot in the face by a patrol that I failed to notice ;)
 
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Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,729
2,774
0
now that i think about it, with the "more realistic" version we could have options that we do not have in RO:Ost

now that TWI is separating the game in two modes, are there any chances that the hardcore version will have RO:MOD-like map without gps or indicators?, that way we hardcores could at least have a MORE hardcore game than ostfront which would be the good side of the coin
 

[-project.rattus-]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,036
371
0
37
Austria
www.youtube.com
I like your thinking fedorov. Give us a pretty damn hardcore mode too. With no announcement scrolls, no fire indicators, no remote capping indicator, no "balance of forces" indicator while in the cap zone (possibly without the filling bar, but just the info that it's being capped), so we can't guess how many are in the zone, no radar for friendlies, the name above people only shown in very close proximity, no GPS style map, a randomized lockdown timer (to some extent, at least), with no countdown showing, no hero bonus other than weapon unlocks (if it absolutely has to be in).

Now that would be the perfect HoS for me, and I guess I'd be content if there were only a few servers in my timezone playing by those rules, as long as I got to play it that way.
 
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Apos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2007
1,749
1,436
0
Europe
www.enclave.pl
now that i think about it, with the "more realistic" version we could have options that we do not have in RO:Ost

now that TWI is separating the game in two modes, are there any chances that the hardcore version will have RO:MOD-like map without gps or indicators?, that way we hardcores could at least have a MORE hardcore game than ostfront which would be the good side of the coin

+1 Fedorov is right, that what your customers looking for in RO:HoS: more RO:O in RO:HoS, less arcade things. "Relaxed realism" and "realism" split ROHOS scene into two. Each gamemode split it more. I cannot imagine 10 Wild Bunch servers in RO:HOS, each with diffrent setup and gametype.
 

Rak

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 23, 2005
3,543
677
0
32
D
I like your thinking fedorov. Give us a pretty damn hardcore mode too. With no announcement scrolls, no fire indicators, no remote capping indicator, no "balance of forces" indicator while in the cap zone (possibly without the filling bar, but just the info that it's being capped), so we can't guess how many are in the zone, no radar for friendlies, the name above people only shown in very close proximity, no GPS style map, a randomized lockdown timer (to some extent, at least), with no countdown showing, no hero bonus other than weapon unlocks (if it absolutely has to be in).

Now that would be the perfect HoS for me, and I guess I'd be content if there were only a few servers in my timezone playing by those rules, as long as I got to play it that way.

Agreed. Make it easier while making it hardcore. That way both playerbases are pleased, oldschool dudes have less rights to whine about radar and such.
 

-[SiN]-bswearer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 3, 2008
3,476
1,942
0
that's exactly what i think TW is doing.......they are adding in these new features to help bridge the gap between hardcore RO and mainstream fps games which i think is wise since that will probably attract more mainstream players and with more players comes a larger community and most importantly more money and notarity for TW.....that means more support from TW for not only RO2 but more games down the road.

not EVERY customer is looking for a more realistic game than ROOST....it's just the long time diehards posting a lot that want that. a lot of people need to realize that TW is trying to expand beyond their current player base. of course they'd want to keep their steady player base, but in order to grow they need to reach out to attract more players.

with these preset realism "modes" they'll have standard bases for play which is smart. some new features would be implemented in all modes like bandaging etc... whereas some wouldn't. we know about the two modes they've discussed so far......here's how i look at them

relaxed realism - the "lowest" level of realism. implimenting some new features that are frequently seen in many mainstream games, without compromising the overall realistic nature of RO.
realistic - the equivilant to what realism is currently like in RO:OST. i personally believe that this should be the default.

granted they've already got those two levels, they should also have a third level which would be even more realistic than ROOST, i.e. from what many have already said, more like the original mod.

hardcore realism - no deathmessages, no overhead maps, definitely none of the new features like radar, hit detection etc....

even with the preset modes, they should have everything be optional so that server admins can either select a preset mode, or pick and choose which things they want enabled/disabled. that way everybody will get to play exactly how they want with/without whatever features they decide.
 

MeatEtr

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 24, 2006
181
24
0
44
Greenville, SC
Why in the hell would anybody want a dev to limit options to players/servers? Look at the CoD series, sure theres a long list of things which aren't very realistic. But the hardcore mode is great, lots of people play it besides the normal mode.

I voted no in the poll and I also vote that this poll is useless. :rolleyes:
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,295
2,346
0
32
Prussotroll's Bridge
i actually hate the hardcore mode of cod, as the gameplay (and the weapons) just doesnt fit with one hit kills

normal mode = 1-2 click battles, if you take the M16 with extra dmg and penetration
hardcore mode = one click battle with rpd aimpoint and extra dmg
 

SiC-Disaster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 16, 2005
4,893
679
0
33
Netherlands
www.tangodown.nl
I like your thinking fedorov. Give us a pretty damn hardcore mode too. With no announcement scrolls, no fire indicators, no remote capping indicator, no "balance of forces" indicator while in the cap zone (possibly without the filling bar, but just the info that it's being capped), so we can't guess how many are in the zone, no radar for friendlies, the name above people only shown in very close proximity, no GPS style map, a randomized lockdown timer (to some extent, at least), with no countdown showing, no hero bonus other than weapon unlocks (if it absolutely has to be in).

Now that would be the perfect HoS for me, and I guess I'd be content if there were only a few servers in my timezone playing by those rules, as long as I got to play it that way.

This.
If no server would host it, i would rent my own server regardless of income lol.
 
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REZ

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,534
482
0
44
The Elitist Prick Casino
R said:
Give us a pretty damn hardcore mode too. With no announcement scrolls, no fire indicators, no remote capping indicator, no "balance of forces" indicator while in the cap zone (possibly without the filling bar, but just the info that it's being capped), so we can't guess how many are in the zone, no radar for friendlies, the name above people only shown in very close proximity, no GPS style map, a randomized lockdown timer (to some extent, at least), with no countdown showing, no hero bonus other than weapon unlocks (if it absolutely has to be in).

..add to that no aim-zoom and it's the exact game I'm looking for :cool:
 

[-project.rattus-]

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,036
371
0
37
Austria
www.youtube.com
Well, to be 100 % realistic, you just set your FoV to 35 - 45 degrees, depending on your monitor size. The everything looks normally sized, but it has a disadvantage: you'd see the game like you would through a window of the size of your monitor.

Though IMHO the realism doesn't come mainly from the FoV, or even from sporting a crosshair (no depth perception and no feel for your body make it harder to judge where you're gun is pointed than IRL), but from the game mechanics.