Tactics Should I weld it? The Absolute Idiot's reference

[Baron]

A long way back, Br@d posted a thread about this very topic. I intend to revisit it and expand it.

Let me begin with a quote from a good friend of mine. Nutterbutter holds many opinions. Fiercely. I disagree with several of them. Fiercely. Which is why I love it when he posts things. Nothing like a clean, civilized disagreement to spark a good debate.

Welding is a crutch and as long as someone uses that crutch, they'll need that crutch.

I disagree. Fiercely. I will concede that, insofar as it can prevent other skills (watching your back, roaming, etc.) from developing, welding is a crutch. I myself am a dismal roamer because I rely on bottlenecking. I'm working on that though.


Generally:

1. You do not have to weld everything. Sometimes, you need to leave an escape route. Sometimes, you can handle traffic from all directions.

2. You do not have to weld to 100%. It is possible to, in a 2-door room, weld one door to 100% and the other to 50% (and so on for more doors) to stagger arrivals. There are other alternatives too, however.

3. There are three welding styles - Forget, Fix, or Fixate. If just leaving it (Forget) won't get you swarmed, fine Otherwise, you have to either return periodically and check (fix) or, if there are many ZEDs a-knocking, you need to maintain it (fixate).

4. Alt-fire isn't just for letting other people in. You can clear a room and reweld. This keeps ZEDs from building up behind the door and swarming you when it breaks. It also prevents the unweldableness you get from a broken door.

5. The fewer doors you're juggling, the better.

6. Don't weld doors that people will frequently use to get to the trader unless necessary as defined by your group's playstyle.

7. Be flexible. Depending on the perk balance and individual preferences of your team, it may be better/less irritating to others to close what you would normally leave, or vice-versa. This applies to both welders AND non-welders.

8. "We are welding" sounds better than "I am welding" for a reason.

9. Don't forget that explosives damage welds. Relevant if you need to get through one fast or if you need it to hold at all costs. Watch for blast radius.

10. Learn where the different spawn points are, both on and off the map. This will help you know how to weld to best alter the flow of ZEDs.

11. Wide doors take longer to weld, and have room for more ZEDs to attack from the opposite side. Single doors are preferable, unless it can't be avoided.

12. WELDING IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR TUNNEL VISION.

13. WELDING SHOULD NOT LEAD TO LAST STANDS. Sometimes, you just need to move. You can always come back and reweld later. It's better to leave and survive.

Specifically:

Holding an area
WELD - One or two directions. More than that and no escape.
LEAVE - Escape route, bottleneck
UNWELD - Let people in, prevent full break and allow rewelding

The spawn point in BioLabs is like this. I weld either to the left or right and (optional) the first door in the hall. This leaves two directions open. One to shoot at, and one to escape through if needed. If you go too far down the hall, ZEDs start spawning behind you though.

Holding a room/hall
WELD - (Almost) all
LEAVE - One if permanent, none if alternating
UNWELD - Alternate

The corner rooms in Skatepark are like this (sorry, can't think of a proper example right now). Weld one door, fire out the other until there's a lull, weld the other, unweld the first, clear of ZEDs, repeat.

Blocking out spawns
WELD - Where needed
LEAVE - Everything else
UNWELD - Clear

Sometimes, there's that one annoying door with the Crawlker spawn right behind it (Offices). Unweld occasionally, clear of nuisances, reweld.

Covering your rear
WELD - Partially, between you and them
LEAVE - After welding, when ready
UNWELD - They'll do it for you, when ready

Sirens and husks can be inconvenient when surrounded by trash. Weld a bit, redirect your team's attention, (optionally) unweld, clear. Also useful when roaming to get a bit of distance and healing before rejoining the fray.

Blocking out everything (Welding yourself in)
WELD - Everything
LEAVE - Nothing
UNWELD - When ready, staggered

Never do this unless your entire team is desperate for healing. Do I make myself clear? Good. Stagger your welds/unwelds so that no one direction is overwhelmed. Works well in combination with Holding a room/hall.

Useless doors
WELD - All
LEAVE - None
UNWELD - To weld again

Gotta get your points somewhere, right? If it has a window beside it you can jump through, leads to nothing (or small rooms nobody uses), or is in a part of the map nobody visits, go nuts.


The most important welding tip you will ever hear, ever:

When you weld, you are committing yourself to the door. It is now your job to make sure that the door does not break, or if it does, that it doesn't break at a bad time, or if it's just unavoidable, that you warn your team well in advance.

IT IS YOUR JOB AND NO ONE ELSE SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO IT FOR YOU.
​

If they do, great. Team spirit and whatnot. But if your negligence puts the team in a bad position, they will not like you. I suspect that this is at the root of a large majority of the problems people have with Welders. The other thing you have to keep in mind is that committing yourself to a door keeps you away from the action. Your teammates might need that extra DPS to prevent a wipe.

Thanks to Nanostrike and Rckrdude for the thought.



INB4:

You forgot...
Then I'll add it.

UR DOIN IT RONG!
Then tell me why and I'll change it.

 

[RainbowCakez]

You can destroy welded doors with explosives, too. So if someone is welding an unnecessary door, you can throw a grenade or two at it so the person will stop welding it.
This is often seen as an aggressive attitude though, and can anger some players, where as you can just explain why that door should be open.
Exploding every door as well, is a good way to get on the Welder's bad side.

 

[Darkwave]

"Will it weld , that is the question" *Dun nun nun dun nun...*

 

[Baron]

"Will it weld , that is the question" *Dun nun nun dun nun...*

Your blend of pun and pop-culture amuses me. I lol'd.

 

[nutterbutter]

"Should I weld it?"

No.

 

[Fish111]

It is helpful to your team for you to weld everything, as long as you keep saying "Yo dawg I herd you like being trapped so I put a wall on your door so you can be trapped while you're trapped" on voice chat while you weld.

 

[Baron]

Funny. But seriously, you guys are still completely against the (practiced and judicious) use of the Welder?

 

[ph30nix]

i think some people are against welding because they see it as something that reduces difficulty or can just screw you over in the long run.

i think most important thing to keep in mind when welding is not EVERYTHING needs to be welded.

best example Bioticslab spawn area, if you weld the left hand and right hand doors from spawn 90% of the specimens will come from down the hall.

Now if you weld either of the 2 doors in the hallway it causes specimens to start spawning from the sides.

learning the map and learning most common spawn locations is realy a big factor in what to weld and what not to weld in my opinion.

 

[Baron]

I think some people are against welding because they see it as something that reduces difficulty or can just screw you over in the long run.

1) The most important thing to keep in mind when welding is not EVERYTHING needs to be welded.

2) Best example Bioticslab spawn area ... if you weld either of the 2 doors in the hallway it causes specimens to start spawning from the sides.

3) Learning the map and learning most common spawn locations is really a big factor in what to weld and what not to weld in my opinion.

Actually, I went over the first two of these, and you are very correct on the third. I will add it under General.

And of course welding reduces difficulty! That's the whole point. I respect those of us who wish to get the full apocalyptic feeling of being overrun, but I like to not die. Even if dying all the time makes it more satisfying when you survive. The screwing over part is true, though. All the more reason to do it judiciously.

[off-topic]

As to the second, I assume by "spawning from the sides" you mean that ZEDs start spawning in the room to the right and the hall to the left, and then they come in behind you. This is not due to welding the doors. It's because you aren't in the area. As soon as you get to the first door on the left (maybe a bit before), the game starts spawning them behind you. This is actually useful if the rest of your team has moved up the hall to get more kills. Move up with them, wait 3 seconds, go back, clear, repeat. Gets you kills ;P

If you learn where the in-game spawn-points are (not the ones behind barrels and such - ones ins the areas you can access), you'll know how to change the flow of ZEDs. This is only one example. As soon as you can't see them spawning there, they will spawn, which means that they aren't spawning somewhere else.

[/off-topic]

 

[C_Gibby]

"Should I weld it?"

No.

lern 2 KF.

Welding is something that is done heavily depending on the situation be it the immediate area, the amount of ammo in the team or the perk/weapon loadout. Welding can help you escape, it can buy you more time or it could make sure that you can hold an area without getting a gorefast blade in the arse when you're not looking. It also changes to flow of zeds completely, so you may unweld/destroy one door and use it as an escape route, since there's no ZEDs behind it due to the fact that they're "flowing" in a totally different direction.

 

[Baron]

You're being a bit harsh, Gibby. You are mostly right, at least in my opinion, but that doesn't excuse rudeness. Everyone is entitled to their own views.

The 'mostly' comes from the "flow" argument. Not all doors change the flow of ZEDs. In fact, most don't. If the nearest player is on the other side of the door, it's gotta go down as for as they're concerned. One example of a door that actually DOES change the flow is the door to the right of the spawn in BioticsLab, since the closest player is usually down the hall the other way, not through the door. If you leave it open, though...

All my examples are from the labs, since that's where I weld most often. XD

 

[Eureka]

You can destroy welded doors with explosives, too. So if someone is welding an unnecessary door, you can throw a grenade or two at it so the person will stop welding it.
This is often seen as an aggressive attitude though, and can anger some players, where as you can just explain why that door should be open.
Exploding every door as well, is a good way to get on the Welder's bad side.

I had to do this just today with someone who was either clueless or griefing.

 

[Nanostrike]

The higher the difficulty levels go, the more likely a door breaking at a bad time will end up wiping half the team, IMO. If a door is welded, you're pretty much committing someone on the team to watch it and a lot of players aren't really good about it.

 

[timur]

For the Absolute Absolute Idiots guide, ask yourself these questions:

Does it have a face? If the answer is yes, than "no"

Does it have a handle? Then perhaps.

Does it glow green? Then most likely no.

Does it make roaring sounds? Most likely no

Does it say "kill all humans"? Then no.

Does it like trousers? Then no.

Does it need more salt? Then no.

Does it acompany any saying with the words "dosh" "quid" "money" or the like? Then no.

Does it spoute cockney sayings? Then no.

If you come across any exceptions, please notify me.

 

[C_Gibby]

You're being a bit harsh, Gibby.

Well that's me doing a 3-word impression of Nutter as I know him. He's extremely forceful with his opinion even when everyone points it out as wrong or ridiculous, and he ends up talking down to everybody and refuses to accept any new information from other players unless he finds it out in-game for himself in his own freedom and then proceeds to violently force it down people's throats if they don't already know, even when his "findings" are mostly disagreeable.

If you think this is acceptable, you should see the kind of things that happen in his old specimen/character suggestion threads like Pat the Hairdresser.

 

[Baron]

The higher the difficulty levels go, the more likely a door breaking at a bad time will end up wiping half the team, IMO. If a door is welded, you're pretty much committing someone on the team to watch it and a lot of players aren't really good about it.

Two counter-arguments:

1) If a door is welded, you're committing yourself to watch it. You can't expect anyone else to do it for you. You're the one who welded it. I mean, if they do, that's great, but as you said...

2) There are two options - weld, or don't. If you do, you have the option of choosing to unweld when there is a (relative) lull. If you don't, and a group comes from both ends, you'll be having the same trouble as if the door broke. Well, unless...I'm just gonna edit the original with the end of this sentence. I put in in General-4.

 

[rckrdude]

You also have to take into consideration the fact that on higher difficulties, welding reduces the number of players available on the front line. You will need a largely dedicated welder past wave 7 on suicidal/HOE if you do decide to keep a door close to the camp spot welded. 2 if a FP shows up. You can't just weld every few seconds, run back to help the team and try to fix the door because that is a sure way to have it blow. For example, the corner doors on the top floor of foundry or the red room near the stalker facility on wyre, which are very common camp spots on these maps. Both require dedicated welders.

This becomes even harder if there's more than one door to hold like on several locations in filthscross. That means you're taking away multiple supports with high damage output away from the front. Now imagine if there's a FP at each door or 2 at one door. Its very likely the FPs are surrounded by scrakes and sirens and one or both doors will eventually blow. Or if one fp comes from the front and the other comes behind the door. Its very likely that someone on the front will die, leaving even fewer players to take the onslaught.

These things tend to happen at least once or twice a game on harder difficulties and you face a good chance of a wipe every time it does. I'm not saying welding is inherently a bad tactic. Just that there are other factors to consider before multiple supports decide to become dedicated welders. Usually, the maps were welding is used most have better spots to camp in anyway.

 

[Baron]

Post updated to reflect this.

 

[Crow72]

I joined a server once where the trader was too far away too reach so I and the other recently joined player RLH towards the next trader hoping to run into the rest of the team while being chased by a horde of ZEDs. Along the way I was welding doors to keep them off our backs (But only enough to stall them) until we ran into a double door area. I welded the first (partially) and welded the second completely only to find a dead end and we were trapped by a horde of ZEDs with at least two scrakes and a FP I believe. (I may be stretching the truth a little but basically the situation was pretty hopeless) Knowing the team was too far away to lend help I made a final stand there. So they burst in and I nailed them with gernades. But it was hopeless with only my 9mm and I was swarmed while trying to escape. SOmehow though the other player succesfully escaped wether due to my sacrifice or some other reason. BUt I was glad to buy him the time.