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Sharpshooter needs a rebuild.

Padlock

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 30, 2019
8
6
3
I always play HOE selecting Sharpshooter most of the time and I have to say that I’m not completely satisfied how Sharpshooter is designed compared to other perks, especially if we compare him to Gunslinger who is able to deal with trash and big zeds in a very efficient way, even better than SS. GS is all in one perk with no weak points.


  • SS is the only perk who suffers from movement penalty so you are forced to stand still or crouch to increase damage, in a fast-paced and chaotic game where you are obliged to shoot while moving, if not, you get surrounded by zeds in a blink of an eye, especially crawlers or stalkers, and you´re done.
  • If this game had the same playstyle as KF1 probably movement penalty would fit in the game style but not in KF2.
  • SS has slower movement speed than GS even if you choose marksman skill (active skill). While GS has a faster movement speed as a passive skill.
  • SS is supposed to be the one who handles big Zeds more efficiently but instead of that we have some perks who can take down big zeds even quicker than SS. for example: GS can slaughter a group of QP´s quicker than SS or demo who can RPG headshot SC at point blank with one rocket or supp that is capable of decapitating SC with Doomstick with 1 headshot, not to mention med who´s able to behead SC with HRG incision hands-down and taking no chances.
  • SS has low rate of fire compared to other perks so you are forced to choose marksman (active skill) to have a decent shooting speed because Sniper skill is useless without the “Increase shooting speed by 25 %” and because you have to stay like a rooted plant. while GS has a high shooting speed by default (passive skill) with no movement penalty.
  • Ballistic shock is worthless unless you buy crossbow or compound bow. Why? Because you only can stun QP´s and FP´s with arrows, specifying that sometimes you won´t stun big zeds enraging them, if a QP or FP is enraged this skill is useless. And here comes again the comparison with GS who has skullcracker that allows him to perform multiple headshots due to it always slows zeds, even if FP or QP is enraged.
Suggestions:

  • “Increase shooting speed by 25 %” should be a passive skill not an active one.
  • Add laser sights to crossbow and compound bow. Those weapons lack of accuracy especially when shooting from the hip. A Laser sight would compensate somehow the fact they aren´t hit scan and would guarantee a sure shot on these weapons which have low rate of fire. If you miss a shot with those weapons you´re done.
  • Movement:
    • Sniper: increase damage 25% when using iron sights with a perk weapon.That way SS has somehow a movement restriction but no so radical like stationary position.
    • Marksman: increase movement speed by 10 % and reload speed by 20 % using perks weapons.
  • Basic technique:
    • Stability: Increase damage 30%, no movement penalty while crouching and using perk weapons.
    • Ballistic shock: stun power of perk weapon is mandatory.Tiers 3, 4 and 5 weapons should always stun big zeds. If not just change it for skullcracker.
    • I remember it was that way the time SS was added to game but players complained and unfortunately, they changed it. (I don´t see no one complaining about super GS or the indestructible Zerk).
  • Skill: No changes needed.
  • Equipment:
    • weapon harness: increase carrying capacity by 2.
    • Always prepare: no changes.
  • Master techniques: No changes needed.

I have expressed my point of view, everybody is welcome to reply with respect.
 
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Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,511
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>The movement penalty you speak of has been blamed by many, many players (including people not very fond of the perk... like me. Even though it's actually mostly due to that). It's really surprising that they haven't thought about tweaking that one, because I swear it pleases no one : being forced to camp in a game where everything is done to avoid camping is a bafflingly stupid move.

>However, I do believe that the GS is MEANT to be nimble. He's basically the perk that swarms within the horde, almost like a bullet ballet. And that's perfect like that. You don't expect a sniper to run around the battlefield right? I want the Sharp to be more than a sitting duck, but he shouldn't become heckin' fast either. The perk should still be one of the slowest, precisely to favor careful placing and proper marksmanship.

>I see Quarterpounders as "medium-high" zeds rather than truly big bads. Hence why it's understandable that the GS is able to take care of them quicker. And it's not actually that true... Assuming you use an upgraded Centerfire or M14 with good aiming, you can deal with them quite reliably as a sharpshooter. And I'm certain that a RPG-7 demo or a Railgun sharp can dispatch Scrakes and Fleshpounds better... Not to mention that the sharp certainly can pick them off at longer distances due to its weapons having zooms (most of the time). And the doomstick for the support has always been meant to be a "nuking" gun. Not to mention you're not being very fair in said case... It's mad expensive, you have to empty your mag to one-shot SC or FP, and you have to be VERY close to be effective. That's already a bunch of disadvantages compared to the Xbow for example.

>Useless skills are sadly a common issue with almost every perk. Some having more than others... That is true. I've been asking for a rework of the sharpie for quite a while now, to no avail. Actually : it seems most people don't care and only call for a survivalist rework. I beg to differ : the sharp could really benefit from it too.

>I do agree with most of your suggestions however. BUT, if we remove the crouching and standing still penalties, then the damage buffs shouldn't be so large... A massive +55% for a heavy-hitter like the sharp is just too damn high. Something like +15% and +20% would be more reasonable. Even more so if "Stability" removes the movement penalty while crouching.

And finally... No need to overly compare the GS to the SS. They are different perks for a reason. If you want them to be put on the same-ground, why bother having two perks in the first place?
 

Padlock

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 30, 2019
8
6
3
>The movement penalty you speak of has been blamed by many, many players (including people not very fond of the perk... like me. Even though it's actually mostly due to that). It's really surprising that they haven't thought about tweaking that one, because I swear it pleases no one : being forced to camp in a game where everything is done to avoid camping is a bafflingly stupid move.

>However, I do believe that the GS is MEANT to be nimble. He's basically the perk that swarms within the horde, almost like a bullet ballet. And that's perfect like that. You don't expect a sniper to run around the battlefield right? I want the Sharp to be more than a sitting duck, but he shouldn't become heckin' fast either. The perk should still be one of the slowest, precisely to favor careful placing and proper marksmanship.

>I see Quarterpounders as "medium-high" zeds rather than truly big bads. Hence why it's understandable that the GS is able to take care of them quicker. And it's not actually that true... Assuming you use an upgraded Centerfire or M14 with good aiming, you can deal with them quite reliably as a sharpshooter. And I'm certain that a RPG-7 demo or a Railgun sharp can dispatch Scrakes and Fleshpounds better... Not to mention that the sharp certainly can pick them off at longer distances due to its weapons having zooms (most of the time). And the doomstick for the support has always been meant to be a "nuking" gun. Not to mention you're not being very fair in said case... It's mad expensive, you have to empty your mag to one-shot SC or FP, and you have to be VERY close to be effective. That's already a bunch of disadvantages compared to the Xbow for example.

>Useless skills are sadly a common issue with almost every perk. Some having more than others... That is true. I've been asking for a rework of the sharpie for quite a while now, to no avail. Actually : it seems most people don't care and only call for a survivalist rework. I beg to differ : the sharp could really benefit from it too.

>I do agree with most of your suggestions however. BUT, if we remove the crouching and standing still penalties, then the damage buffs shouldn't be so large... A massive +55% for a heavy-hitter like the sharp is just too damn high. Something like +15% and +20% would be more reasonable. Even more so if "Stability" removes the movement penalty while crouching.

And finally... No need to overly compare the GS to the SS. They are different perks for a reason. If you want them to be put on the same-ground, why bother having two perks in the first place?
I agree I shouldn´t have compared SS to GS all time, just did because i do feel GS outperforms SS and it shouldn´t be that way. They need balance things, especially for SS who is in great disadvantage compared to other perks.

As for "if we remove the crouching and standing still penalties" as i suggested for sniper skill, using iron sights is way to restrict mobility not too drastic, as to crouching, remember that you are an easy target if you just walk instead of sprinting on this chaotic game so it´ll improve playabilty not giving SS a disproportionate advantage.

As you mention and i totally agree with TWI doesn´t pay attention to our suggestions, i also asked for a SS rebuild time ago, to no avail, as you said. They should take notes about what players demand, especially old school players like most of us who have been playing KF since its inception.
 
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Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,511
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Belgium
My bad, I thought the "+30% damage" meant in general, while crouching got the benefit of not impairing your speed. If you have to crouch to get both, that's a bit more fair. Buuut I still believe it's a bit too much. If we choose to compare to the GS yet again, he only get the movement bonus, nothing for its damage. And in case you say "yeah but he has higher DPS than the sharpshooter", that only applies if you use single-shot weapons. Imagine a crouching sharpshooter with the +30% damage and no speed penalty, having a Centerfire, FN Fal or M14... That'd be ludicrous, even without headshots. I think a milder 20 (or let's find the middle ground : 25%) would be better.

And yes, Tripwire has a very weird relationship with fans... On one hand we got classic Briar and Masterson. We got numerous guns back from the first game. We got the return of Zynthetic as the voice of the Patriarch etc.


It is also great they are still providing content on a regular basis. Most of it being interesting.

But sometimes, you wish they would cut an update entirely simply to focus a bit more on issues people have been notifying them for YEARS at that point. Call it a "quality-of-life" improvement or something.

Tweaking 2-3 weapons is not enough.
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Well, I enjoy playing as sharpshooter. Also I don't see any problem with move speed penalty.
As such, you choose between damage per shot and damage per second+move speed.
Damage per shot makes player more potent at scrake killing, while firerate increase you survivability.
Those damage increases without reduced movespeed AND with 25% bonus firerate? Very, VERY OP. I get most kills sitting in the front each time I pick SS. But with that I will not take any risk and just obliterate every zed on my own. Like, cmon, that's too much.

Also, increased damage only when using sights makes every laser sight you mentioned useless. Why would anyone get crossbow without damage bonus? And if you take damage bonus you will never you lasersight.
 
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Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,374
491
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While I like some of the suggestions you've made (the lasersight on the Xbow, RoF bonus being a passive, to mention a couple), I honestly think Sharpshooter needs a MUCH bigger revamp than that, far more so than the Survivalist. Quick example: When it comes to the weapons, you can't crossuse his spammers vs heavyhitters particularly well (well you can, but the talent choices you then pick feel weird and clunky). Also, look at this list I have made as a guideline on how I feel all talents should be made:

* All talent choices to be a matter of choice and playstyle, preferably - not about meta picks (even if there might be some of it, which is arguably inevitable to minor extents)
* All talent choices to be useful in as many situations as possible (i.e. not having talents that, for example, are entirely useless when fighting alone bosses or single targets - like Spontaneous Zed-splosion can be)
* All talent choices to never be useless for any of your perk weapons (like how Ground Fire and Firestorm currently are useless for the Mac10) - however, if a weapon for some reason is unaffected by a talent, at least then its counterpart talent should then also not affect that weapon (Basicly: remove weapon-to-talent pidgeonholing as much as possible)
* All talent choices to have a use even when you don't have a lot of dosh (like more max ammo/grenades, those are of very little use when you have insufficient dosh (only ammoboxes or Support/Demolitionist resupply might help you then))
* All pure damage increasing talents should be removed (generally baking them into the passive), unless there is a meaningful choice of damage vs damage to be had on the same tier, or if an early powerspike could be warranted.
* RNG should be minimized, preferably none, in effects.

Sharpshooter violates almost all of these!

* Playstyle instead of meta - For Sharpshooter, it's almost ENTIRELY about metapicks; You either build for spammers (M14+FNAL) or heavyhitters. Mixing and matching is far less efficient.
* Situationally useless talents - Most talents for Sharpshooter are "situational" in that they rely on your actions, but overall it dodges this issue quite decently, thankfully.
* Talent useless with certain weapons - Marksman's rate of fire boost does next to nothing for the 1-shot weapons.
* Talent useless without dosh - Always Prepared has little use if you don't have dosh/Supports/Demolitionists to make use of it.
* Damage vs utility - This issue exists on ALL FIVE tiers! Yuck!
* RNG - Zed Time talents have the 5% chance-for-Zed-Time thingy, which not only has RNG, but also HEAVILY favours the spammier guns.

So, what do I propose? A HUGE rework, like this:


General changes:
-- Some passives and talents are added/change to make the Sharpshooter a tad more userfriendly and weaponkit-mixable, but still very headshot focused
-- All players can shoot through other players without any penetration cost/penalty, and players who are close to enemies become slightly transparent so they can see a little bit through you
-- Smoke from friendly explosions could be less opaque (i.e. more easy to see through)
-- Screenshake induced onto allies, when done from allied explosions, ought to be extremely minimal (or even outright removed). It's not only unfriendly, it's also headache-inducing
-- Flames' visual glare and such could definitely be toned down a notch, in particular when firing near allies
-- To normalize talents' +passives' damageboosting, all Sharpshooter weapons deal 20% more damage by default!
Passives:Changes:
-- Perk weapon headshot damageUnchanged
-- Recoil reductionUnchanged
-- Weapon switching speedUnchanged
-- NEW: Perk weapon damageNEW: Grants +1% perk weapon damage (for both body and headshots) per level, max 25%
-- NEW: Rate of fire bonusNEW: Grants +1% perk weapon rate of fire bonus
-- NEW: Ammo bonusNEW: Grants +1% perk weapon ammo per level, max 25%
-- NEW: Hawkeye VisionNEW: When aiming at an enemy (no need to aim down sights), the enemy's head and weakspots are highlighted in a soft glowing silhouette for the Sharpshooter
The plain damageboost was added to allow the talents to have a bit more variety
The rate of fire bonus is to give a clear edge for the Sharpshooter's proficiency with its weaponry. Only thing I'm unsure of is: Should it still increase the firing rate for the FN FAL when used in its fully automode? To me, that's more of a guntweak, rather than a user proficiency
Ammo bonus is added both because it fits to boost the perk this way (so it has more total heavyhitting potential than other perks, if they were to wield Shaprshooter weapons too, like Survivalist) and because Sharpshooter is very light on passives
Hawkeye is meant to alleviate visual disturbances, and let the Sharpshooter do its job more easily - this could also become a "hold F vision" (similar to Commando and Berserker's Nightvision)
Talents:Changes:
-- Level 5 category - Movement
Lvl 5 - Sniper StabilityWhile crouching with a perk weapon, gain +50% movementspeed, +20% reloadspeed and 10% recoil reduction. If standing or sitting still, you also get 10% recoil reduction (stacks with the crouch bonus)
Lvl 5 - MarksmanIncreases movement speed by 10%, and you may sprint while reloading.
Stability is moved up and is made more about utilities (the damagebonus is removed)
Marksman's RoF-boost was made into a passive, so to replace that it got a reloadrelated bonus, something which has clear usefulness even with the 1-magsize weapons
-- Level 10 category - Basic Technique
Lvl 10 - Stability Dead EyeGrants elite reloads, reduce all recoil by 25% (at all times) and remove all weapon bobbing while moving and aiming down sights
Lvl 10 - Ballistic ShockGrants elite reloads, as well as +100% perk weapon stun power
Dead Eye is moved up, tweaked and merged with Tactical Reload
Ballistic Shock is also merged with Tactical Reload, so both choices grants elite reloads.
Elite reloading is granted on both choices, as it's an essential pick for any heavyhitting weapon pick - not having that bonus on one of the choices means you can't mix and match spamshooter and heavyhitter weapons as well
-- Level 15 category - Skill Elimination
Lvl 20 - Rack 'em Up Lay in WaitIncreases ranged perk weapon damage done by 10% every second (20% bonus per second if aiming down sights), up to 50%. Shooting an enemy does not consume the damagebonus, but complete misses (not counting penetrations) consume up to half of the max bonus.
Lvl 20 - Tactical Reload Marked for DeathRanged perk weapon now marks your first enemy shot. The marking shot and subsequent perk weapon attacks deal +50% more damage to the marked target. Subsequent ranged perk weapon shots refreshes the mark's duration, otherwise lasting 10 seconds. No more than one mark may exist at once - the target has to die or the duration has to expire for you to be able to mark a new enemy
Lay in Wait is basicly Rack 'em Up, but in reverse order (basicly starts at max bonus, penalizing misses). This makes it useable with any loadout, rather than heavily favouring the spamshooters.
As Tactical Reload was moved up, Marked for Death takes its place. It is an easier to use version of Lay in Wait, but requires you to focus down one target at a time (i.e., its targetting is much less flexible). However, it doesn't penalize you for mistakes either.
-- Level 20 category - Equipment Skill
Lvl 15 - Dead Eye Kill ThrillGrants your next perk weapon reload a 10%/15%/25% reloadspeed bonus if reloading within 2 seconds after killing a small/medium/big enemy
Lvl 15 - Always Prepared Unstoppable ForceGrants +1 grenade, adds +1 penetration power to all perk weapons and suffer no penetration damage reductions - including shooting through blocking enemies with no damage or incapacitation penalty!
Taking Dead Eye's place is Kill Thrill, which awards your killing prowess with a reloadspeed bonus, moreso the bigger the enemy you have killed. All reloadbonus tiers can be active at once (for example, if killing quickly or upon penetration kills), but only the highest current bonus will be applied, although all bonuses will be consumed upon your next reload. Killing another enemy of the same tier before reloading will reset that bonus's time window as well.
Always Prepared is reworked (as the ammo-component was made passive) into Unstoppable Force, retaining the grenade bonus, but instead of giving ammo makes your penetrative shots fully damaging, and it also allows you to ignore enemies' blocking maneuvres (both its damage reduction AND incapacitation reduction properties!).
-- Level 25 category - Master Techniques
Lvl 25 - AssassinStun enemies on headshots and grants +30% headshot damage (works with the Zed time-triggiering shot, if the Sharpshooter triggered it). Chance to trigger Zed time upon a headshot is now guaranteed, but has X second cooldown
Lvl 25 - RangerGrants 50% bonus to rate of fire and reloadspeed during Zed time. Chance to trigger Zed time upon a headshot is now guaranteed, but has X second cooldown
Assassin's bonus was lowered (35 -> 30) and merged with old Ranger's bonus. Stun bonus now stacks with Ballistic Shock. Zed time trigger also made non-RNG. With all the damage changes, overall damage bonuses remain intact (total max bonus is 2,76x compared to current 2,75x)
Ranger changed to make it a bit different; Where Assassin is power and CC, Ranger is about speed. Zed time trigger also made non-RNG
Note: An alternative to the Zed Time trigger (intead of "guaranteed-but-cooldown"): Tie the chance to the perk weapon's rate of fire: The fastest weapons like 9mm/FAL/M14 could remain at 5% chance, but the slower the weapon gets, the higher the chance becomes (Like, M99 could go up to as high as 20% or so?)
Damagenote (and other personal thoughts):
Notes on total damage: Current max bonus is (Passive+Sniper+Stability+ReU+DeadEye+Assassin) 1,25+0,25+0,3+0,5+0,1+0,35 = 2,75. With these changes, the max damage would be ((Passives+Level15+Assassin) * Baseweaponboost) (1,5+0,5+0,3) * 1,2 = 2,76! Almost identical
Weapons:Changes:
Winchester 1894Non-elite reload per bullet reduced to 0,37 seconds (from 0,45s)
SPX CentrefireNon-elite reload per bullet reduced to 0,37 seconds (from 0,46s)
CrossbowStun wonkyness fixed - maybe just raise its stun power to 120 (from 101), if that's enough to fix the issue?
M14 EBRLasersight is now something you can toggle on/off with altfire. Lasersight active and aiming at enemies means enemies have slightly higher aggro towards you (good for getting them to face you for easier headshots, bad if you don't want to get hurt)
RailgunAutolock only has 25% damage-penalty. Reloadcancelling nerfed a bit (i.e. make the ammo input delayed)
M99 AMRWeight reduced to 11 (from 12)
FN FALQuestion: No longer crossperked for Commando?
Winchester non-elite reload per bullet is obnoxiously slow, benefitting too much from elite reloading (You reload ~75% faster with elite reloads!)
SPX non-elite reload is, likewise, obnoxiously slow, benefitting too much from elite reloading (You reload ~75% faster with elite reloads!)
Crossbow's stunning effect - notably on Scrakes, where it should be reliable at all times when headshotting and Scrakes not defending themselves - somehow isn't reliant. I bet it's due to its power being 101, causing some kind of rounding issue or something. Hopefully just raising that number a bit could fix it
M14 lasersight toggle is both to make the lasersight have a purpose, and to make it optional
Railgun's lockon is interesting, but kinda pointless when it's so weak - hence the buff. Reload cancelling also needs toning down, considering the massive speed it can get when doing so.
M99 weight reduction was to make it pairable with the Winchester 1894
FN FAL is extremely hard to balance across both perks. While it may be ok on the Sharpshooter (considering the perk's job), it is very hard to make viable for the Sharpshooter without overpowering it for the Commando.


There ya go. A much more usefriendly Sharpshooter, while the damageceiling remains the same.
 
Last edited:

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,511
163
63
Belgium
That's outstanding, and Tripwire (or anyone interested in FPS video games) should take notes.

I do have a few nitpicks, but they are just that : nitpicks. Like, I do believe that you're getting a bit too much damage with all those bonuses. The Sharpshooter is definitely a glass-cannon, but it shouldn't roll on everything the game throws at you !

Similarly, I do think the FAL should stay within the commando's hands... A full auto gun simply doesn't fit the sharpshooter IMO.

Everything else is top-notch however. Honorable mentions to the "Hawkeye" passive, the M14 laser sight toggle and the Marked for Death skills. All are very clever.
 
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Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,374
491
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Thanks!

I really tried my best here :)

About damage, I've been trying to do a revamp for EVERY perk, and it is actually kind of important to keep a certain ratio of damagebonuses. Just as a quick reference:

Demolitionist and Sharpshooter = +100%-ish bonus from talents and passives.
Gunslinger and Berserker = +75%-ish bonus from talents and passives.
Medic and Survivalist = +20%-ish bonus from talents and passives.
All other perks = +50%-ish from talents and passives.

With this ratio, you notice the heavy hitters (Demolitionist and Sharpshooter) won't be outclassed by other perks if they offperk their weapons, as they always have at least half the TTK for heavy targets (crossperks and Survivalist aside).

Berserker being toned down to just max 75% (from ridiculous current +207,5%!) is also important, as the weapons' base damage are massively buffed (+45% across the board), to help with crossperking melee weapons for other perks (and to remove the need for Survivalist's Melee Expert talent to exist, while still remaining relevant, melee-damage-wise).

Aaaand I'm rambling as always. If you're curious, check my doc out here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qyj67DLXTHl6v2S0yhEgOjglMv21N2sIjr5TJp9pJDE/edit#gid=0

About FN FAL - I'm not sure what to do anymore with it. It's Commando's main heavyslayer-gun, but basicly all trashkiller perks have those now: SWAT has HRG Nailgun+Kriss, Firebug has MWG+Helios+HuskCannon, even the bloody medic has the Incision. So leaving the FAL as is, is probably fine?
 

Padlock

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 30, 2019
8
6
3
Well, I enjoy playing as sharpshooter. Also I don't see any problem with move speed penalty.
As such, you choose between damage per shot and damage per second+move speed.
Damage per shot makes player more potent at scrake killing, while firerate increase you survivability.
Those damage increases without reduced movespeed AND with 25% bonus firerate? Very, VERY OP. I get most kills sitting in the front each time I pick SS. But with that I will not take any risk and just obliterate every zed on my own. Like, cmon, that's too much.

Also, increased damage only when using sights makes every laser sight you mentioned useless. Why would anyone get crossbow without damage bonus? And if you take damage bonus you will never you lasersight.
You are right, laser sight wouldn´t pair with aiming down sight damage bonus. i hadn´t noticed that.
 

Padlock

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 30, 2019
8
6
3
While I like some of the suggestions you've made (the lasersight on the Xbow, RoF bonus being a passive, to mention a couple), I honestly think Sharpshooter needs a MUCH bigger revamp than that, far more so than the Survivalist. Quick example: When it comes to the weapons, you can't crossuse his spammers vs heavyhitters particularly well (well you can, but the talent choices you then pick feel weird and clunky). Also, look at this list I have made as a guideline on how I feel all talents should be made:

* All talent choices to be a matter of choice and playstyle, preferably - not about meta picks (even if there might be some of it, which is arguably inevitable to minor extents)
* All talent choices to be useful in as many situations as possible (i.e. not having talents that, for example, are entirely useless when fighting alone bosses or single targets - like Spontaneous Zed-splosion can be)
* All talent choices to never be useless for any of your perk weapons (like how Ground Fire and Firestorm currently are useless for the Mac10) - however, if a weapon for some reason is unaffected by a talent, at least then its counterpart talent should then also not affect that weapon (Basicly: remove weapon-to-talent pidgeonholing as much as possible)
* All talent choices to have a use even when you don't have a lot of dosh (like more max ammo/grenades, those are of very little use when you have insufficient dosh (only ammoboxes or Support/Demolitionist resupply might help you then))
* All pure damage increasing talents should be removed (generally baking them into the passive), unless there is a meaningful choice of damage vs damage to be had on the same tier, or if an early powerspike could be warranted.
* RNG should be minimized, preferably none, in effects.

Sharpshooter violates almost all of these!

* Playstyle instead of meta - For Sharpshooter, it's almost ENTIRELY about metapicks; You either build for spammers (M14+FNAL) or heavyhitters. Mixing and matching is far less efficient.
* Situationally useless talents - Most talents for Sharpshooter are "situational" in that they rely on your actions, but overall it dodges this issue quite decently, thankfully.
* Talent useless with certain weapons - Marksman's rate of fire boost does next to nothing for the 1-shot weapons.
* Talent useless without dosh - Always Prepared has little use if you don't have dosh/Supports/Demolitionists to make use of it.
* Damage vs utility - This issue exists on ALL FIVE tiers! Yuck!
* RNG - Zed Time talents have the 5% chance-for-Zed-Time thingy, which not only has RNG, but also HEAVILY favours the spammier guns.

So, what do I propose? A HUGE rework, like this:


General changes:
-- Some passives and talents are added/change to make the Sharpshooter a tad more userfriendly and weaponkit-mixable, but still very headshot focused
-- All players can shoot through other players without any penetration cost/penalty, and players who are close to enemies become slightly transparent so they can see a little bit through you
-- Smoke from friendly explosions could be less opaque (i.e. more easy to see through)
-- Screenshake induced onto allies, when done from allied explosions, ought to be extremely minimal (or even outright removed). It's not only unfriendly, it's also headache-inducing
-- Flames' visual glare and such could definitely be toned down a notch, in particular when firing near allies
-- To normalize talents' +passives' damageboosting, all Sharpshooter weapons deal 20% more damage by default!
Passives:Changes:
-- Perk weapon headshot damageUnchanged
-- Recoil reductionUnchanged
-- Weapon switching speedUnchanged
-- NEW: Perk weapon damageNEW: Grants +1% perk weapon damage (for both body and headshots) per level, max 25%
-- NEW: Rate of fire bonusNEW: Grants +1% perk weapon rate of fire bonus
-- NEW: Ammo bonusNEW: Grants +1% perk weapon ammo per level, max 25%
-- NEW: Hawkeye VisionNEW: When aiming at an enemy (no need to aim down sights), the enemy's head and weakspots are highlighted in a soft glowing silhouette for the Sharpshooter
The plain damageboost was added to allow the talents to have a bit more variety
The rate of fire bonus is to give a clear edge for the Sharpshooter's proficiency with its weaponry. Only thing I'm unsure of is: Should it still increase the firing rate for the FN FAL when used in its fully automode? To me, that's more of a guntweak, rather than a user proficiency
Ammo bonus is added both because it fits to boost the perk this way (so it has more total heavyhitting potential than other perks, if they were to wield Shaprshooter weapons too, like Survivalist) and because Sharpshooter is very light on passives
Hawkeye is meant to alleviate visual disturbances, and let the Sharpshooter do its job more easily - this could also become a "hold F vision" (similar to Commando and Berserker's Nightvision)
Talents:Changes:
-- Level 5 category - Movement
Lvl 5 - Sniper StabilityWhile crouching with a perk weapon, gain +50% movementspeed, +20% reloadspeed and 10% recoil reduction. If standing or sitting still, you also get 10% recoil reduction (stacks with the crouch bonus)
Lvl 5 - MarksmanIncreases movement speed by 10%, and you may sprint while reloading.
Stability is moved up and is made more about utilities (the damagebonus is removed)
Marksman's RoF-boost was made into a passive, so to replace that it got a reloadrelated bonus, something which has clear usefulness even with the 1-magsize weapons
-- Level 10 category - Basic Technique
Lvl 10 - Stability Dead EyeGrants elite reloads, reduce all recoil by 25% (at all times) and remove all weapon bobbing while moving and aiming down sights
Lvl 10 - Ballistic ShockGrants elite reloads, as well as +100% perk weapon stun power
Dead Eye is moved up, tweaked and merged with Tactical Reload
Ballistic Shock is also merged with Tactical Reload, so both choices grants elite reloads.
Elite reloading is granted on both choices, as it's an essential pick for any heavyhitting weapon pick - not having that bonus on one of the choices means you can't mix and match spamshooter and heavyhitter weapons as well
-- Level 15 category - Skill Elimination
Lvl 20 - Rack 'em Up Lay in WaitIncreases ranged perk weapon damage done by 10% every second (20% bonus per second if aiming down sights), up to 50%. Shooting an enemy does not consume the damagebonus, but complete misses (not counting penetrations) consume up to half of the max bonus.
Lvl 20 - Tactical Reload Marked for DeathRanged perk weapon now marks your first enemy shot. The marking shot and subsequent perk weapon attacks deal +50% more damage to the marked target. Subsequent ranged perk weapon shots refreshes the mark's duration, otherwise lasting 10 seconds. No more than one mark may exist at once - the target has to die or the duration has to expire for you to be able to mark a new enemy
Lay in Wait is basicly Rack 'em Up, but in reverse order (basicly starts at max bonus, penalizing misses). This makes it useable with any loadout, rather than heavily favouring the spamshooters.
As Tactical Reload was moved up, Marked for Death takes its place. It is an easier to use version of Lay in Wait, but requires you to focus down one target at a time (i.e., its targetting is much less flexible). However, it doesn't penalize you for mistakes either.
-- Level 20 category - Equipment Skill
Lvl 15 - Dead Eye Kill ThrillGrants your next perk weapon reload a 10%/15%/25% reloadspeed bonus if reloading within 2 seconds after killing a small/medium/big enemy
Lvl 15 - Always Prepared Unstoppable ForceGrants +1 grenade, adds +1 penetration power to all perk weapons and suffer no penetration damage reductions - including shooting through blocking enemies with no damage or incapacitation penalty!
Taking Dead Eye's place is Kill Thrill, which awards your killing prowess with a reloadspeed bonus, moreso the bigger the enemy you have killed. All reloadbonus tiers can be active at once (for example, if killing quickly or upon penetration kills), but only the highest current bonus will be applied, although all bonuses will be consumed upon your next reload. Killing another enemy of the same tier before reloading will reset that bonus's time window as well.
Always Prepared is reworked (as the ammo-component was made passive) into Unstoppable Force, retaining the grenade bonus, but instead of giving ammo makes your penetrative shots fully damaging, and it also allows you to ignore enemies' blocking maneuvres (both its damage reduction AND incapacitation reduction properties!).
-- Level 25 category - Master Techniques
Lvl 25 - AssassinStun enemies on headshots and grants +30% headshot damage (works with the Zed time-triggiering shot, if the Sharpshooter triggered it). Chance to trigger Zed time upon a headshot is now guaranteed, but has X second cooldown
Lvl 25 - RangerGrants 50% bonus to rate of fire and reloadspeed during Zed time. Chance to trigger Zed time upon a headshot is now guaranteed, but has X second cooldown
Assassin's bonus was lowered (35 -> 30) and merged with old Ranger's bonus. Stun bonus now stacks with Ballistic Shock. Zed time trigger also made non-RNG. With all the damage changes, overall damage bonuses remain intact (total max bonus is 2,76x compared to current 2,75x)
Ranger changed to make it a bit different; Where Assassin is power and CC, Ranger is about speed. Zed time trigger also made non-RNG
Note: An alternative to the Zed Time trigger (intead of "guaranteed-but-cooldown"): Tie the chance to the perk weapon's rate of fire: The fastest weapons like 9mm/FAL/M14 could remain at 5% chance, but the slower the weapon gets, the higher the chance becomes (Like, M99 could go up to as high as 20% or so?)
Damagenote (and other personal thoughts):
Notes on total damage: Current max bonus is (Passive+Sniper+Stability+ReU+DeadEye+Assassin) 1,25+0,25+0,3+0,5+0,1+0,35 = 2,75. With these changes, the max damage would be ((Passives+Level15+Assassin) * Baseweaponboost) (1,5+0,5+0,3) * 1,2 = 2,76! Almost identical
Weapons:Changes:
Winchester 1894Non-elite reload per bullet reduced to 0,37 seconds (from 0,45s)
SPX CentrefireNon-elite reload per bullet reduced to 0,37 seconds (from 0,46s)
CrossbowStun wonkyness fixed - maybe just raise its stun power to 120 (from 101), if that's enough to fix the issue?
M14 EBRLasersight is now something you can toggle on/off with altfire. Lasersight active and aiming at enemies means enemies have slightly higher aggro towards you (good for getting them to face you for easier headshots, bad if you don't want to get hurt)
RailgunAutolock only has 25% damage-penalty. Reloadcancelling nerfed a bit (i.e. make the ammo input delayed)
M99 AMRWeight reduced to 11 (from 12)
FN FALQuestion: No longer crossperked for Commando?
Winchester non-elite reload per bullet is obnoxiously slow, benefitting too much from elite reloading (You reload ~75% faster with elite reloads!)
SPX non-elite reload is, likewise, obnoxiously slow, benefitting too much from elite reloading (You reload ~75% faster with elite reloads!)
Crossbow's stunning effect - notably on Scrakes, where it should be reliable at all times when headshotting and Scrakes not defending themselves - somehow isn't reliant. I bet it's due to its power being 101, causing some kind of rounding issue or something. Hopefully just raising that number a bit could fix it
M14 lasersight toggle is both to make the lasersight have a purpose, and to make it optional
Railgun's lockon is interesting, but kinda pointless when it's so weak - hence the buff. Reload cancelling also needs toning down, considering the massive speed it can get when doing so.
M99 weight reduction was to make it pairable with the Winchester 1894
FN FAL is extremely hard to balance across both perks. While it may be ok on the Sharpshooter (considering the perk's job), it is very hard to make viable for the Sharpshooter without overpowering it for the Commando.


There ya go. A much more usefriendly Sharpshooter, while the damageceiling remains the same.
👏👏👏 you hit the nail on the head.

I´m very impressed, you have everythig calculated.
I do agree with your suggestions, Those are even better than mine.
As for FN-FAL should be removed from Commando due to overpowering issue or leaving it just for commando with the current stats.
If removed from SS side, maybe they could add a new weapon to replace it.,such as: SVD with a bit more firepower than M14 because of 10 round mag and some detractors of FN-FAL for SS will be pleased since SS won´t have an automatic rifle anymore.

Hope TWI listens to our suggesttions and does something about it
 
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Aleflippy

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Sep 18, 2012
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I don't know if the SVD would truly differ from the M14 EBR... I guess it could be more powerful, while being less effective when fired from the hip (and with a smaller mag) ?

I really like the weapon though...
 

Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
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Thanks man, very kind words ^^

As for SVD - Imo, it's a bit overused, and I think something more interesting would be to give the Sharpie something a bit WEAKER, and slightly more trashoriented at tier 2 (as a counterpart to SPX's and Xbow's heavier hitting side of things). Something like the Mauser C96 pistol with the stock
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Well, suggestions made by Aze is bit more balanced and thoughtful, but still makes sharpshooter overpowered. For changes like this every other class must be reworked as well. So, I don't think there is a chance for such changes.
However, I would kill for this "sprint while reloading" feature. That ability only may increase mobility and survivability of SS.
 

Barot8

Active member
Feb 4, 2010
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I agree with many of these ideas. The sharp should be able to run faster, reposition, shoot off a few rounds, and then repeat. As he currently stands, to get the most damage, he has to crouch, shoot, and stay, hoping not to be overrun and that his teammates protect him and tell him when they are moving. I think that's one reason most people dislike playing the sharp perk. Also the SPX Centerfire needs a rework. It's gas cloud is a nice touch but for reloading and shooting during zed time it's horrible. Maybe add to both level 25 skills that reloading and shooting is almost instantaneous. Another possible change would be an option to add the laser sight to all his weapons with either level 25 skill.
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
I agree with many of these ideas. The sharp should be able to run faster, reposition, shoot off a few rounds, and then repeat. As he currently stands, to get the most damage, he has to crouch, shoot, and stay, hoping not to be overrun and that his teammates protect him and tell him when they are moving. I think that's one reason most people dislike playing the sharp perk. Also the SPX Centerfire needs a rework. It's gas cloud is a nice touch but for reloading and shooting during zed time it's horrible. Maybe add to both level 25 skills that reloading and shooting is almost instantaneous. Another possible change would be an option to add the laser sight to all his weapons with either level 25 skill.
Strongly disagree with SPX rework. It is very strong weapon for killing big zeds. Low cost, good upgrade potency and low weight make it my personal best anti-scrake/fp gun. If it will reload faster SFX will overwhelm every other SS weapon.
 

Barot8

Active member
Feb 4, 2010
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My main complaint about the SPX was it not really being able to shoot more than once (or twice if Commando extends) during Zed Time.The M14 can easily get off at least 5 rounds during Zed time. Heck, the Winchester is better during Zed Time than the SPX for the number of shots per Zed Time. The SPX is very good damage for it's cost but during Zed Time (which is a huge deal in the game) it's stinky. The only time the SPX can do multiple shots is during the weekly (Zed Time) or if a Commando extends Zed Time as long as possible.
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
My main complaint about the SPX was it not really being able to shoot more than once (or twice if Commando extends) during Zed Time.The M14 can easily get off at least 5 rounds during Zed time. Heck, the Winchester is better during Zed Time than the SPX for the number of shots per Zed Time. The SPX is very good damage for it's cost but during Zed Time (which is a huge deal in the game) it's stinky. The only time the SPX can do multiple shots is during the weekly (Zed Time) or if a Commando extends Zed Time as long as possible.
And SPX deal much more damage than M14, so DPS is about the same for both,
 
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Barot8

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Feb 4, 2010
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It's not about being able to do more damage during it's one shot (maybe 2) in zed time. When killing mid to smaller zeds during Zed Time the M14, the Winchester, and the 9mm can kill/shoot more zeds during zed time in a per shot vs time.

*edited to add the word shoot.
 
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Zaenos

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 30, 2020
1
3
3
I love sharpshooter, but there are definitely issues with the perk.

Personally, I would fix two things about it:

1. All headshot bonuses should instead become weak spot bonuses. It feels terrible to be penalized for shooting weak points that aren't the head.

2. The sharpshooter needs some form of survivability improvement, without sacrificing the feel of the perk. I get the appeal of a relatively immobile glass cannon, but it needs to be practical and the reality is the game as a whole is designed to discourage that. To preserve that playstyle while making it practical, I would recommend adding 1%/level passive movement speed while reloading and replacing the tier 4 skills with the following options:
  • Dealing weak spot damage with a perk weapon stumbles nearby zeds.
  • Remaining stationary increases damage resistance 7% per second up to 35%.

    (exact numbers are hypothetical)
Both of these grant you some kind of leniency to remaining still to aim, while the passive speed on reload allows you to quickly reposition.

The first option is similar to the firebug's Heat Wave skill, but requires precision in exchange for affecting all nearby zeds. It doesn't require you to stand still, but it will definitely help players who do while helping the sharpshooter in general avoid the crowds that spell death for it more than any other perk.

The second option specifically rewards setting up a sniper spot, granting some leeway should you let yourself get surrounded. Stacks would fall off one at a time like Rack-em-Up to provide some safety as you shoot your way out of whatever mess you're in and into your next perch, and also allow you to make quick adjustments without dropping the whole bonus.
 

Barot8

Active member
Feb 4, 2010
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I love sharpshooter, but there are definitely issues with the perk.

Personally, I would fix two things about it:

1. All headshot bonuses should instead become weak spot bonuses. It feels terrible to be penalized for shooting weak points that aren't the head.

2. The sharpshooter needs some form of survivability improvement, without sacrificing the feel of the perk. I get the appeal of a relatively immobile glass cannon, but it needs to be practical and the reality is the game as a whole is designed to discourage that. To preserve that playstyle while making it practical, I would recommend adding 1%/level passive movement speed while reloading and replacing the tier 4 skills with the following options:
  • Dealing weak spot damage with a perk weapon stumbles nearby zeds.
  • Remaining stationary increases damage resistance 7% per second up to 35%.

    (exact numbers are hypothetical)
Both of these grant you some kind of leniency to remaining still to aim, while the passive speed on reload allows you to quickly reposition.

The first option is similar to the firebug's Heat Wave skill, but requires precision in exchange for affecting all nearby zeds. It doesn't require you to stand still, but it will definitely help players who do while helping the sharpshooter in general avoid the crowds that spell death for it more than any other perk.

The second option specifically rewards setting up a sniper spot, granting some leeway should you let yourself get surrounded. Stacks would fall off one at a time like Rack-em-Up to provide some safety as you shoot your way out of whatever mess you're in and into your next perch, and also allow you to make quick adjustments without dropping the whole bonus.
I like these ideas. The Sharpshooter currently sacrifices reloading speed for damage which I think is kind of a mistake. I'd think a level cap addition increasing reload speed per level would help. Also if the Sharp has to stay still for more damage, I like the idea of a second passive increase as level increases. Also maybe slowdown Gunslinger movement speed while reloading. Or maybe Sharpshooter should get a movement bonus while reloading.
 
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Borsoi

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 26, 2020
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Brazil
I really believe the sharpshooter needs a rebuild, he really lost to much in a multiplayer game. I'm on board with your suggestion.
 

Bluntman420

Member
May 21, 2015
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As another sharpshooter player (nice to see others!!), I'm also on board with some tweaks.

I don't think it needs as severe a rework as some of you pointed out, although the stuff yall have come up with is fantastic. I definitely feel almost every aspect of the game is hostile to sharpshooter gameplay and for the most part that's ok because of how much damage the sharp can deal. IMO, the rack em up/tactical reload choice should be reviewed, I like both perks but I almost always choose tactical reload without hesitation. I think the perk should get a small passive speed boost, like Zaenos pointed out. Like not enough to turn it into a gunslinger but enough to where you can be just quick enough to survive if or when things go to hell. Lastly, big agree on doing away with penalizing the sharp for shooting weak spots that aren't the head.
 

Barot8

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This change for level 10 Stability

Increase damage 30%, movement crouching speed 50%, and reload speed 20% while crouching and using a perk weapon, and running movement speed 40%, when using a perk weapon

Would be excellent. I also think Deadeye needs a rework. Does anyone use Deadeye? Does it work or is it broken?
 

peter491

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 14, 2020
1
0
1
You guys must be playing a different game. Sharp has always been one of the strongest perks in KF2, if not the strongest. Here's what a sharpshooter offers the to the team -

1- Ability to trivialize big zeds with 1/2 bullets with railgun/m99 from a distance

2- Being effective against both trash and Large zeds with M14/FAL builds. Its essentially a higher DPS version of GS

3- Ability to trigger zed time every 10 seconds with M14/FAL. Its the most powerful passive in the game. Have a commando to extend and it straight up breaks the game

4- Stun scrakes with bullets both inside and outside zed time. No other perk can do that

5- Freeze grenades, which completely neutralize big zeds and offers a get out of jail free card

6- Best perk for deleting bosses with railgun

So you effectively have a perk that offers higher DPS than gunslinger, on demand CC (with freeze and stun), And more team utility than commando. How is this even considered weak?

Also sharpshooter doesn't need movement speed bonus. Marksman skill (level 5) already provides 10% movement speed bonus. That's the same bonus as medic passive. Effectively it makes sharpshooter the 4th fastest perk in the game. 3rd fastest if we exclude medic buffs

The only issue with sharp is that it can get screwed by irresponsible firebug/demo players. But that's not a issue with sharpshooter itself, its more of a issue with how disruptive firebug and demo is in this game

Most veterans who play 6P HOE and Controlled Difficulty would agree that Sharp is one of the strongest perk atm.
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
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Doesn't change the fact that he's encouraged to be a sitting duck in a game where mobility is key.

The perk doesn't suck and isn't weak,but his skills definitely are.
 

Bluntman420

Member
May 21, 2015
332
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Thinking back to the first KF, the sharpshooter was also a fairly slow perk, and if you miss a shot or two on scrake or flesh, that was big enough of a mistake to wipe the team many times. I love having that kind of pressure personally, it's what made me fall in love with the perk. At the same time, the perk could be made to be a little more enjoyable with a tad bit more mobility and reworking the rack em up/tactical reload choice (the latter being the more necessary step IMO). Passive mobility would help those who choose the damage to be slightly more able to defend themselves if things go bad and those who choose the speed perks would be even faster which is fair because you sacrifice a ton of damage choosing those perks.

IF there was a change to give more mobility passively, then there would have to be a balance to make sure that you can't create a monster sharp with both more power and speed than say the gunslinger.

Agreed that the cryo grenades are severely underutilized and the extra stun is unnecessary because of the M14/FAL combined with the Ranger zedtime perk. (I still think the suggestions at the beginning of the thread are creative and fun though!)

Speaking of the zedtime perks, it would be interesting to see what percentage of players chooses which perk. I'm fairly certain the damage one is the more utilized perk.