Sharp is overpowered.

[joecheeze]

First of all, whoever the hell doesn't think the M14 is overpowered is either a crappy player or is aiming to keep their cool points because of their SS skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joecheeze
just making a point. TWI tries to implement SOME realistic data and statistics in their games.

Hmmm, yes. I'm sure the M14 fires a linear infinite speed bullet with no recoil or accuracy deterrence. Yes, hitscan weaponry in video games accurately portrays reality.

it was a reference with the clip size. not the physics.

 

[Bakkaratorz]

Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it isn't one class it's another!
Just because the class you play doesn't rely on the arguably rudimentary skill of aiming for the head doesn't mean that a skill that enhances that is god-fist.

 

[9_6]

Fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it isn't one class it's another!
Just because the class you play doesn't rely on the arguably rudimentary skill of aiming for the head doesn't mean that a skill that enhances that is god-fist.

Play as a sharpshooter and then come back again. Or try reading this thread.

 

[Marls]

I find it funny how people whinged about berserkers being overpowered, now its sharpshooters. In my opinion this is the class it was uppose to be in teh first place. The "master class" at headshotting. Sharpshooter you dont pump a targets full of rapid bullets, you send a precised shot at its most vunable body part.... which in this case is the head. I stand by my argument saying Sharpshooters is NOT about pistols, but well placed critical shots on an enemy mob. If the whole team wants to go sharpshooters, let them.

I think it should be left as it is... but a *minor* adjustments in lowering it bonus stats (Mainly I think the recoil should be reduced. 65 % ? oh come on, commandos get 40 at most and its automatic)

 

[DocDave]

In my opinion this is the class it was uppose to be in teh first place.

"Sharpshooters deserve to be better than anyone at anything because they're my favorite."

 

[9_6]

In my opinion this is the class it was uppose to be in teh first place. The "master class" at headshotting...

..and sweeping? Both at the same time?

 

[DocDave]

If the whole team wants to go sharpshooters, let them.

If the whole team wants to go [ANY PERK], let them. But let them do just as well on suicidal with 6 berserkers as 6 SS. People who like playing berserkers paid as much for the game as you.

 

[i​e]

Looks like Sharpshooter is FOTM and thus seen as overpowered on public servers.
FOTMs such as this are often caused by one simple thing: it's easy to play.

There is a simple change I've wanted to suggest for a while, even before 1.008:
Remove damage bonus from sharpshooter weapons and increase sharpshooter's headshot damage bonus accordingly. There. No more "kekekeke m14 rush" sharpshooters who can't even aim. To increase the effect, M14EBR mag capacity could be reduced to a third (5 mags). This nerf wouldn't hurt sharpshooters who can play the class right.


As for general Scrake/Fleshpound headshot complaints, shut the fu​ck up. The headshot detection was finally fixed in 1.008 (on other zeds, too). I'm sure this bugfix is one of the reasons for the high amount of sharpshooters on public servers. - The class finally works.

 

[Mr. Shoe]

Currently, there is nothing in my mind that doesn't say the SS is OP by a long shot. I never complained about Beserker, because Beserker was genuinely fun to play, SS is not. Before this patch all classes had a role and were fun. Now they are all mismashed and don't make sense anymore. Why did the Support and SS get super powered but the Beserker got ganked in the f-ing back?

You know how this game feels? Like CS. The sniper class weaponry are the best weapons to have, and likewise, the class that has the sniper perks is the best one. GG nuff' said.

it was a reference with the clip size. not the physics.

You just said realism. Make up your mind on how you want to lose your argument.

 

[Tagert]

Too much cowboying around with the large amount of magazines the M14EBR has at the moment. Reducing it would help I think

 

[Ihmhi]

Looks like Sharpshooter is FOTM and thus seen as overpowered on public servers.

It's not overpowered because it's the flavor of the month, it's overpowered because they 1-shot anything at higher levels with Crossbow and can easily dispatch anything with the M14 in a few shots.

Sharp on your team? Fleshpounds fall like a sack of potatoes, one bolt.

Scrake? Don't need a Zerker, just headshot it!

They have made the game less challenging. The overabundance of Sharps has nothing to do with the M14/Crossbow being overpowered (they are, IMO), it has to do with the fact that you can handle pretty much anything by yourself without much of a worry.

Having any one class be able to handle anything easily is bad for teamwork. Having one class be far more powerful for the others is bad for teamwork. Having Flesh Pounds go down so easy (Pipe Bombs are at fault as well here) is bad for teamwork.

Every perk should have its strengths and weaknesses. With Crossbow, Sharp (barely) has a weakness to close quarters. (Dual HCs will make this practically a non-issue). M14 EBR can handle everything at any range with no problem.

 

[i​e]

It's not overpowered because it's the flavor of the month, it's overpowered because they 1-shot anything at higher levels with Crossbow and can easily dispatch anything with the M14 in a few shots.

Sharp on your team? Fleshpounds fall like a sack of potatoes, one bolt.

Scrake? Don't need a Zerker, just headshot it!

They have made the game less challenging. The overabundance of Sharps has nothing to do with the M14/Crossbow being overpowered (they are, IMO), it has to do with the fact that you can handle pretty much anything by yourself without much of a worry.

Having any one class be able to handle anything easily is bad for teamwork. Having one class be far more powerful for the others is bad for teamwork. Having Flesh Pounds go down so easy (Pipe Bombs are at fault as well here) is bad for teamwork.

Every perk should have its strengths and weaknesses. With Crossbow, Sharp (barely) has a weakness to close quarters. (Dual HCs will make this practically a non-issue). M14 EBR can handle everything at any range with no problem.

Way to ignore / misunderstand most of my post.

1) SS is FOTM and OP because its perceived as easy to use (and jack-of-all-trades due to M14).

2) Demo, support, zerger, any xbow/pipebomb/m32 user can kill them easily.
3) Demo, support, zerger, commando, any xbow/pipebomb/m32 user can kill them easily.
What's the point in whining about SS excelling in its job, high single-target spike damage? ESPECIALLY when other classes can handle the same situations as well and put out more DPS?

4, 5, 6) See my suggestion about SS damage bonuses and M14.

 

[DocDave]

1) SS is FOTM and OP because its perceived as easy to use (and jack-of-all-trades due to M14).

The SS is not overpowered because of anyone's perception. Their perception is that way because he is overpowered.

What's the point in whining about SS excelling in its job, high single-target spike damage? ESPECIALLY when other classes can handle the same situations as well and put out more DPS?

They can't, though. SS not only puts out far more damage but excels at more than just his job, unlike most other perks. See the statement someone made above about "jack-of-all-trades." Other perks are simply inferior choices at the moment, and TWI has made the game less fun by limiting effective choices.

 

[Mr. Shoe]

The SS is not overpowered because of anyone's perception. Their perception is that way because he is overpowered.



They can't, though. SS not only puts out far more damage but excels at more than just his job, unlike most other perks. See the statement someone made above about "jack-of-all-trades." Other perks are simply inferior choices at the moment, and TWI has made the game less fun by limiting effective choices.

THIS is the reasoning I hate perks at the moment. You don't have ANY god damn variety, because everyone just goes SS. There is a thread on here with someone posting statistically the players he had been in servers with and what their perks were. He had almost half of them as Sharps and nearly none of them as Beserkers. This isn't a fair trade off, this isn't equal. When one perk is dominating the rest, there becomes no reason to have perks at all.

Here's the thread for reference, appalling game stats: http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=38253

 

[kingkong]

agreed, the berserker nerf completely wrecked the class variety in most games. not just because it killed his effectiveness, but also the co-op dynamic suffers when you make a class that does too well on his own. people used to claim that this was the zerk, I just believe they were ill-informed, and tw took them too seriously.

also agreed that it's not the sharp who is overpowered, just the m14. imo the way to go about fixing this is to lower the rof slightly, nothing more nothing less. SLIGHTLY, meaning a few milliseconds in between shots. I don't think there's anything wrong with the dps or headshot multi, or even the mag size. it's just too easy to spam, and get headshots in by luck, if you sweep it at headshot height.

the xbow I would not change at all, it's a powerful weapon of course but I see nothing wrong with weight/ammo/damage. someone mentioned lowering the default ammo count to 20, that's a pretty good idea. price is fine but selling/rebuying to refill is just too easy. if you can afford to buy many of them and refill 20 bolts, then there would be no problem. since carrying one as any class besides support means that all you have as backup are pistols and melee, either way you have to conserve ammo.

 

[Mr. Shoe]

agreed, the berserker nerf completely wrecked the class variety in most games. not just because it killed his effectiveness, but also the co-op dynamic suffers when you make a class that does too well on his own. people used to claim that this was the zerk, I just believe they were ill-informed, and tw took them too seriously.

also agreed that it's not the sharp who is overpowered, just the m14. imo the way to go about fixing this is to lower the rof slightly, nothing more nothing less. SLIGHTLY, meaning a few milliseconds in between shots. I don't think there's anything wrong with the dps or headshot multi, or even the mag size. it's just too easy to spam, and get headshots in by luck, if you sweep it at headshot height.

the xbow I would not change at all, it's a powerful weapon of course but I see nothing wrong with weight/ammo/damage. someone mentioned lowering the default ammo count to 20, that's a pretty good idea. price is fine but selling/rebuying to refill is just too easy. if you can afford to buy many of them and refill 20 bolts, then there would be no problem. since carrying one as any class besides support means that all you have as backup are pistols and melee, either way you have to conserve ammo.

That's a point that needs to be well made. The beserker used to be called what the SS is now, all powerful. Truth be told, the zerker still had his weaknesses. Now you have an SS with no weaknesses being complained about with legitimate concern.

It used to be that people were just whining about beserker.

Now it's that SS is legitimately overpowered.

These two classes need to be highly tweaked and evened out. Most of the other classes are pretty good, sans Firebug and Medic.

 

[Sammers]

I say; add more rifles, add more Pistols then split the Perk into two; The Sharpshooter, long range decent damage and the Gunslinger, mid-range with high mobility and pretty good damage. I know it's been discussed to death before and plenty disagreed saying "Gunslinger would be pointless, it'd fill the same niche as *insert perk*," but hasn't the same happened with Demolitions perk? I mean, that already does the Firebugs job better than it does(Though at a higher price I guess) and even makes good at eradicating targets that would previously be Beserker's speciality. More perks = more variety, or would it just spoil the game? Would certainly ensure that none of the guns would get nerfed.

 

[Mr. Shoe]

I definitely want more pistols. But instead of a gunslinger perk just make the medic specialized in small arms. He won't be able to kill any big zeds, and barely even bloats or husks, but at least he'll be able to kill something.

 

[DocDave]

I happen to like medics that specialize in healing. If you want a gunslinger, suggest making that, not changing the focus of an existing perk.

As far as adding more weapons, that's definitely an option, if done right it can help balance the game out. Basically,

1. Focus on adding good weapons for the perks lacking most in power now.
2. Increase zed toughness/difficulty to make short-range specialization have more meaning.

 

[JohnPsycho]

I say; add more rifles, add more Pistols then split the Perk into two; The Sharpshooter, long range decent damage and the Gunslinger, mid-range with high mobility and pretty good damage. I know it's been discussed to death before and plenty disagreed saying "Gunslinger would be pointless, it'd fill the same niche as *insert perk*," but hasn't the same happened with Demolitions perk? I mean, that already does the Firebugs job better than it does(Though at a higher price I guess) and even makes good at eradicating targets that would previously be Beserker's speciality. More perks = more variety, or would it just spoil the game? Would certainly ensure that none of the guns would get nerfed.

/agree


Separate the 2 SS class is a very good idea.

The " true " SS with the Crossbow are very rare. But Medic with it is more common...
A SS with the M14 looks like a commando doing headshots to me... M14 is not a SS weapon.
IMO it's the M14 the problem, yes it is pretty powerful, but a SS who can fire 10 bullet in 2-3 sec, it is still a SS ? Hell no..

I'm a SS myself, and I love kill Scrakes and FP with a single shot ( why hide it ? ). But I play with the ( heavy ) crossbow. I totaly agree with the fact a single shot might be OP.. For a non-SS. But a single pipebomb do the same thing isn't it ? And it's cheaper for a demoman and, you know what ? He can also fire with another weapon in addition to the pipebomb...
Not all the crossbow SS have an ice blood to kill the FP/SC while beeing attacked by clot/Crawler/others.. Maybe that's why most of the SS are using the M14 ? Faster and lighter.