Seriously.... pple are whining about 1 shot HS kills?!?!?!?

[joecheeze]

Increase xbow to 11 or 12 blocks to prevent sharpshooters soloing around with xbow + hc will already be ok.
It is really pointless to use a sniper + a top level sniper perk which cannot kill even you head shot a specimen. If I cannot kill specimen with head shots, WHY should I use the xbow? 9mm or hcs are even better in killing small specimens and after you head shot a flesh pound with xbow, GOOD! You got an angry flesh pound!!! Why not just delete xbow from killing floor then?

I would rather they just replace it with an official head exploding end all gun. with maybe 2-3 zed penetration, single shot, must remain steady/crouched to fire. firing rate would be slightly longer than the bow. this would be perfect.
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpghttp://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg

agreeable? this way we SS get our 1 shot head shots and lets say any other class would be unable to steady it making it moderately inaccurate in their hands.

 

[9_6]

I would rather they just replace it with an official head exploding end all gun. with maybe 2-3 zed penetration, single shot, must remain steady/crouched to fire. this would be perfect.
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg[url]http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg[/URL]

agreeable?

No.
Why waste time to take out a shooter and replace it with one that fills the exact same role?

 

[outofrealman]

I would rather they just replace it with an official head exploding end all gun. with maybe 2-3 zed penetration, single shot, must remain steady/crouched to fire. firing rate would be slightly longer than the bow. this would be perfect.
[URL]http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg[/URL]

agreeable? this way we SS get our 1 shot head shots and lets say any other class would be unable to steady it making it moderately inaccurate in their hands.

No, xbow is a weapon that NEEDS to reload after every shot. You reaload any "gun" after you fire the whole mag.

Increase the weight, decrease or even remove the penetrate power of xbow and increase the price would be enough.

 

[joecheeze]

No, xbow is a weapon that NEEDS to reload after every shot. You reaload any "gun" after you fire the whole mag.

Increase the weight, decrease or even remove the penetrate power of xbow and increase the price would be enough.

did you even look at it???? its a single shot .50cal bmg bolt action. needs to be reloaded after every shot. was just a suggestion anyway....

 

[joecheeze]

Perhaps the key to satisfaction lies in the production of a mutator wherein the zeds are given wee helmets

HAHA. indeed. Specimens should be upgraded with a Kevlar-carbon-fiber weave for skin. With rocket boosters for feet and sharks with friggin lasers on their heads....

lol

 

[CupofMud]

I don't know how taking away the destructive power of the crossbow outside of a Sharp Shooter's hands deviated to nerfing the penetration.

The penetration is perfectly fine. Really, that and that scope are the crossbows defining features. It takes some work to be very successful at getting the most out of one bolt by lining up shots.

The problem is (as stated) the crossbows destructive power when used outside of the Sharp Shooter perk. Example, "Man, Bob the level zero Firebug just took out a fleshpound in one headshot!" The problem is not: "Man, Bob the level zero Firebug just took out three clots and two gorefasts all with one bolt headshot!" You know what? That probably took some work to pull off, or he was really lucky. Scenarios like that don't present themselves so often as to view the penetration as overpowered. A limitation of the crossbow is its low ammunition. You know how you can make the most of it? Lining up shots. But that should be common sense.

The M14 EBR? Yes, that's an issue as well. But I don't think it belongs in this thread. Go to Sharp is overpowered. to argue that.

 

[joecheeze]

I don't know how taking away the destructive power of the crossbow outside of a Sharp Shooter's hands deviated to nerfing the penetration.

well, what if the penetration is the problem. what if the penetration is causing a good deal more damage than what was intended. i.e. hitting the specimen more than once?

 

[CupofMud]

well, what if the penetration is the problem. what if the penetration is causing a good deal more damage than what was intended. i.e. hitting the specimen more than once?

Well, then the solution is not to take away the penetration, it's to fix it so that the damage (well, the bolt itself) doesn't tick more than once per specimen.

EDIT: and if that very well is the problem and it is not the crossbows power, well, same fix should fix the darn thing overall.

 

[Bandit451]

Great video Anthracy, that's kick-***. Also, didn't realize you were one of the fellas in that video. Didn't mean any offense by my post, you guys did pretty damn well 'til that fleshpound sprouted some wings there.

Increase xbow to 11 or 12 blocks to prevent sharpshooters soloing around with xbow + hc

How does that help anything? Nerfing the Handcannons? If it was 11 blocks, Berzerkers would still do Crossbow+Katana, and if it was 12 blocks you would be stuck with Crossbow+Pipebomb forever. And it STILL wouldn't nerf the Sharpshooter enough, because if you can kill 34 Fleshpounds on Suicidal with nothing but the crossbow, you don't need to use anything else.

I would rather they just replace it with an official head exploding end all gun. with maybe 2-3 zed penetration, single shot, must remain steady/crouched to fire. firing rate would be slightly longer than the bow. this would be perfect.
[URL="http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg"][URL="http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg"][URL="http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg"][url]http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m99.jpg[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

agreeable? this way we SS get our 1 shot head shots and lets say any other class would be unable to steady it making it moderately inaccurate in their hands.

I don't want any class to be able to kill anything in one shot. That is cheap, and very un-fun in a teamwork oriented game. And did you mean the M82, or the M107? 'Cause those are the only ones in use right now, and they both have a 10 round mag...

I don't know how taking away the destructive power of the crossbow outside of a Sharp Shooter's hands deviated to nerfing the penetration.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong in my mind with the crossbow taking out 4 clots with one shot, that's part of it's charm. It also requiers much more skill to do than shooting one Fleshpound in the head.
I'm not sure the penetration is the problem, because shooting a Bloat in the belly with a crossbow dosen't do more damage than hitting him in the head, when it would surely need to hit the bloat 3 or 4 times in the thickness of his belly if it hits a Fleshpound twice in the thickness of his head. And shooting things from the side, so that is goes through both their shoulders isn't an instant-death. And shooting something with a shotgun, or the Handcannons, (both have some penetration) dosen't yeild more damage on the same target.
But this is all circumstantial evidence theorycrafting, either way it would need a Dev's input, or a good long look at the source code to confirm or deny.

 

[joecheeze]

љ M99 M99-1
Caliber .50 BMG (12.7x99mm)
Operation manually operated, rotating bolt action
Overall Length 1280 mm 1179 mm
Barrel Length 838 mm (33") 737 mm (29")
Feedљ single shot
Weight 11.36 kg 9.53 kg
Expected accuracy 1 MOA or better with match grade ammunition


Is that detailed enough?
This gun was also used in ghost recon advanced warfighter. If I had my way this would be the 1 shot headshot gun of choice with penetration. Can you say "BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!" ?

 

[Bandit451]

Fine, pick a gun that NO MILITARY IN THE WORLD USES, simply because it was used in another videogame.
Nevermind that the M82A1 is used by over 40 countries in active service since the eighties, and would actually be useful.
Nevermind that every other weapon in the game is something that could be issued to a military squad, or found in a civilan home.

Lets just use your gun because:

Can you say "BOOM HEAD SHOT!!!" ?

Yeah, that's the only consideration we need...

Now please keep you posts about weapons that are IN THE GAME.

 

[Anemia]

The crossbow certainly is over powered. When you're playing on suicidal with 6 players it's as hard as it can get. But when youre a sharpshooter with crossbow the fleshpounds become as hard as gorefasts. Then something is bloody wrong, they are supposed to be the "hard- moment" for the team and don't show up in regular packs like the other zeds. But heck you can bring them down like a stealing candies from a kid.
They are meant to march in so the team have to focus their fire or at least regroup to take it down. I hope you got my point.

I made a map which I tried 6players suicidal against fps/scrakes with lame outcome. On suicidal 6players I am only able to kill 1 FP safe with pipebombs nadelauncher katana and those 2 sharpy weapons (use to work with aa12 online but didnt get it down when I played alone). If you dont believe my tests (or w/e) do it yourself and you will hopefully have the same outcome: KF-Testmap6p.rom
YouTube - Killingfloor: Is the sharpshooter over powered?


I do think that the m14 is over powered aswell.

 

[joecheeze]

Fine, pick a gun that NO MILITARY IN THE WORLD USES, simply because it was used in another videogame.
Nevermind that the M82A1 is used by over 40 countries in active service since the eighties, and would actually be useful.
Nevermind that every other weapon in the game is something that could be issued to a military squad, or found in a civilan home.

Lets just use your gun because:

Yeah, that's the only consideration we need...

Now please keep you posts about weapons that are IN THE GAME.

fair enough. but you don't have to be a ****** about it.

 

[outofrealman]

The crossbow certainly is over powered. When you're playing on suicidal with 6 players it's as hard as it can get. But when youre a sharpshooter with crossbow the fleshpounds become as hard as gorefasts. Then something is bloody wrong, they are supposed to be the "hard- moment" for the team and don't show up in regular packs like the other zeds. But heck you can bring them down like a stealing candies from a kid.
They are meant to march in so the team have to focus their fire or at least regroup to take it down. I hope you got my point.

I made a map which I tried 6players suicidal against fps/scrakes with lame outcome. On suicidal 6players I am only able to kill 1 FP safe with pipebombs nadelauncher katana and those 2 sharpy weapons (use to work with aa12 online but didnt get it down when I played alone). If you dont believe my tests (or w/e) do it yourself and you will hopefully have the same outcome: KF-Testmap6p.rom
YouTube - Killingfloor: Is the sharpshooter over powered?


I do think that the m14 is over powered aswell.

You can only one-shot killing Scrakes and Fleshpounds in a 6 man hard game if you are a SS.

If a top level (6lv) SS cannot one shot big guys with one shot, why in the first place you want to use the xbow? In solo, you head shot a Fleshpound enrages him and got yourself killed. In multiplayer, you head shot him, cost you $13 and then he enrages and take down by your teamates. And you get nothing. Then what should you shoot instead? 1-2 clots? Or try to line up specimens to take them down with one shot? Oh, but long before you line up anything a nade launcher/flamethrower/SCARs or anything else already take down those small specimens. Once you found out that, you probably just pull out your hcs and kill, what about the Xbow? Sell it after this wave!

If you only mean to point out the xbow is op, not SS perk, may be it is not a good idea to use a 6lv SS for testing. Or do you really mean the SS perk is op? One more consideration, you can take down a Fleshpound by nade launcher, pipebombs and AA12 as well, but you dont need to stop and aim for the head.

 

[Anemia]

You can only one-shot killing Scrakes and Fleshpounds in a 6 man hard game if you are a SS.

If a top level (6lv) SS cannot one shot big guys with one shot, why in the first place you want to use the xbow? In solo, you head shot a Fleshpound enrages him and got yourself killed. In multiplayer, you head shot him, cost you $13 and then he enrages and take down by your teamates. And you get nothing. Then what should you shoot instead? 1-2 clots? Or try to line up specimens to take them down with one shot? Oh, but long before you line up anything a nade launcher/flamethrower/SCARs or anything else already take down those small specimens. Once you found out that, you probably just pull out your hcs and kill, what about the Xbow? Sell it after this wave!

If you only mean to point out the xbow is op, not SS perk, may be it is not a good idea to use a 6lv SS for testing. Or do you really mean the SS perk is op? One more consideration, you can take down a Fleshpound by nade launcher, pipebombs and AA12 as well, but you dont need to stop and aim for the head.

You should look over your facts. A sharpshooter with crossbow can in a 6 playergame on suicidal bring down a fleshpound with 1 headshot. I can see one thing though, you cant be playing much sharpshooter. And have in mind that (unlike any weapon, tss pipebombs) one arrow can bring down a scrake in one shot aswell. And lets say you have to shoot a fleshpound two times to bring it down, what you said is not going to happen. You can just reload and shoot it again and it will fall down dead.

And it's bloody cheap! it's price is 3-10 times lower than aa12 and you can easily bring down any zed with it. It's only back draw is that you cant spam with it, you cant bring down whole masses of zeds with it, so if you've got a dual hc as well you should have no problem beating any suicidal game.

I didn't mean to point out that the perk is over powered. But I named the vid like that. I don't think that the perk is over powered in any way, but it's weapons is overpowered.

You certainly can bring down a fleshpound with aa12 or nade launchers, but not with the same ease (if you go off 1 on 1 with a fleshpound and you've got an aa12, I dont think you will make it unless you have vest). First off, please download the map I added in the last post, and try to kill a fleshpound with aa12, and do it with crossbow.

And why do I use lvl6 sharpy for my tests? Well that's because most sharpys on suicidal 6 player games are lvl6. And sharpshooter is one of the easiest perk to level up.

The crossbow changes the fleshpounds from murder machines into (rag)dolls.

 

[outofrealman]

You should look over your facts. A sharpshooter with crossbow can in a 6 playergame on suicidal bring down a fleshpound with 1 headshot. I can see one thing though, you cant be playing much sharpshooter. And have in mind that (unlike any weapon, tss pipebombs) one arrow can bring down a scrake in one shot aswell. And lets say you have to shoot a fleshpound two times to bring it down, what you said is not going to happen. You can just reload and shoot it again and it will fall down dead.

And it's bloody cheap! it's price is 3-10 times lower than aa12 and you can easily bring down any zed with it. It's only back draw is that you cant spam with it, you cant bring down whole masses of zeds with it, so if you've got a dual hc as well you should have no problem beating any suicidal game.

I didn't mean to point out that the perk is over powered. But I named the vid like that. I don't think that the perk is over powered in any way, but it's weapons is overpowered.

You certainly can bring down a fleshpound with aa12 or nade launchers, but not with the same ease (if you go off 1 on 1 with a fleshpound and you've got an aa12, I dont think you will make it unless you have vest). First off, please download the map I added in the last post, and try to kill a fleshpound with aa12, and do it with crossbow.

And why do I use lvl6 sharpy for my tests? Well that's because most sharpys on suicidal 6 player games are lvl6. And sharpshooter is one of the easiest perk to level up.

The crossbow changes the fleshpounds from murder machines into (rag)dolls.

What I was always trying to is that WHO want an xbow if it cannot take down big specimens fast enough?
If you are not SS, you have better weapon choices. If you are SS, you can kill more by dual hcs if you cant take down big guys anymore. They will just leave Scrakes and Fleshpound for support and demo, enjoy one body shot killing all stalkers and crawlers. Two for clots on suicidal. Than what's the point of playing a "head shot" class!?
When should I use xbow after all these powerful weapons is added to the game if I can't kill those big specimens?

 

[Anemia]

What I was always trying to is that WHO want an xbow if it cannot take down big specimens fast enough?
If you are not SS, you have better weapon choices. If you are SS, you can kill more by dual hcs if you cant take down big guys anymore. They will just leave Scrakes and Fleshpound for support and demo, enjoy one body shot killing all stalkers and crawlers. Two for clots on suicidal. Than what's the point of playing a "head shot" class!?
When should I use xbow after all these powerful weapons is added to the game if I can't kill those big specimens?

Ah, I see your point. But consider that the crossbow is one of the cheapest weapons. If people cant instant kill FPs with crossbow they might move over to m14 before wave 7. But that it cant instant kill everything doesn't make it useless. I used it before the update and at that point I couldn't instant kill FPs or scrakes due to the crappy hit boxes. The crossbow is still a good weapon with great penetration and high range plus it's got Supergood aim. So just because it isn't the Best weapon in the game doesn't make it useless. (In the hands of a sharpy it is without doubt the best weapon in the game (in my point of view though)).

And for the head shot "problem", as we all know it's got 6 times higher head shot damage. Lets say we nerf it to 3, it will still be a excellent weapon for taking down biggies but maybe not too good as it is now.

 

[outofrealman]

Ah, I see your point. But consider that the crossbow is one of the cheapest weapons. If people cant instant kill FPs with crossbow they might move over to m14 before wave 7. But that it cant instant kill everything doesn't make it useless. I used it before the update and at that point I couldn't instant kill FPs or scrakes due to the crappy hit boxes. The crossbow is still a good weapon with great penetration and high range plus it's got Supergood aim. So just because it isn't the Best weapon in the game doesn't make it useless. (In the hands of a sharpy it is without doubt the best weapon in the game (in my point of view though)).

And for the head shot "problem", as we all know it's got 6 times higher head shot damage. Lets say we nerf it to 3, it will still be a excellent weapon for taking down biggies but maybe not too good as it is now.

May be somone just like xbow more then other weapon, just like somebody prefer the bullup rather than SCAR. But for a player who want to "win" a game, he probably use M14 rather than xbow everytime if xbow is not powerful enough.
As a sniper with a sniper, 2 shot to the head at most should take down anything except for the boss IMO. Otherwise it is totally worthless to waste time on aiming the head. Just go support and aim for specimens chest will be much more efficient.

Edit: And for the price or weight, I dont think adjusting them is a bad idea. But the xbow SHOULD be a powerful weapon if you headshot something.

 

[Anemia]

May be somone just like xbow more then other weapon, just like somebody prefer the bullup rather than SCAR. But for a player who want to "win" a game, he probably use M14 rather than xbow everytime.
As a sniper with a sniper, 2 shot to the head at most should take down anything except for the boss IMO. Otherwise it is totally worthless to waste time on aiming the head. Just go support and aim for specimens chest will be much more efficient.

Edit: And for the price or weight, I dont think adjusting them is a bad idea. But the xbow SHOULD be a powerful weapon if you headshot something.

Like crossbow? No, I wouldn't say I like it more than any other gun. I did love the ease to take down sirens.

Even if we nerf the xbow from 6 to 3 it still will be a powerful weapon for head shots, infact still the most damaging in the game (except from pipebomb). But it wont change suicidal games into bloody normal games.

As for shooting head shots, the sharpshooter has already got 50% extra head shot dmg, which is enough reason to aim for the head. (plus ofc the 30% extra dmg the specimens take with head shot.

Can you understand what I mean at all?

 

[Bandit451]

If you dont believe my tests (or w/e) do it yourself and you will hopefully have the same outcome: KF-Testmap6p.rom

That map is awesome. Just totally awesome.
I enabled friendlyfire so that i could kill the FreshMeats and it was great for testing things. I now know that Sharp lvl6 1 shots a Fleshpound on 6man suicidal.
Medic takes 3 headshots to behead one on 6 man Suicidal.
On 5 man Suicidal, medic completely (no running around minus a head) kills a Fleshpound in 3 shots.
On 4 person suicidal, as medic, it takes 3 to kill it, 2nd one beheads it.
On Solo suicidal Medic, it takes 2 hit to kill it, first one enrages, 2nd insta-kills it.
This may seem large for non-sharpshooters, but for 6man suicidal, it is the most powerful weapon.

I also learned that Xbow penetration isn't infinite, it just seems so, lol.
That map is awesome and you deserve great props.
But I worry that somehting fishy is going on, because when I heal myself, it gives me the singleplayer50, as opposed to the mulitiplayer20. Do the FreshMeats only count towards specimine health? I have only used friendly bots with BlackCheeta's mod, so I don't know how the standard bots work, or even the code for them.