KF Secondary for support ?

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Captain Howel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 29, 2013
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I just had a thought. So, as it stands, the best possible secondary for a shotgun-wielder is a pistol, to compensate for his range limitations as well as backup for when his ammo runs out.

But, if you want something that could really work as a secondary shotgun, in real life there are some revolvers that are chambered for both 45 Long Colt rounds and 410 shot shells. One example, though IRL it's kind of subpar, is the Taurus Judge.
Spoiler!

It's got 5 chambers in its cylinder, and its barrel is shaped on the inside to make the shot spin as it exits the barrel, causing the pellets to spread a lot faster. As such it has less range than conventional shotguns (which IRL actually have excellent range, as opposed to most of their video game equivalents which are nerfed hard so as to not be overpowered), but at very close range it has excellent stopping power.

There are two video game guns I can think of based on it: Mass Effect 3's Talon pistol, which was incredibly powerful and undeniably the best gun in the game (mainly because it didn't have limited range and could have an attached scope, so you could put all 8 pellets in an enemy's head from 100 yards), and Black Ops 2's Executioner, which was not particularly powerful but it had a solid niche.

A 5-shot shotgun revolver like that could work for Killing Floor. Depending on how it was balanced it might be pretty worthless, or it might have a healthy niche if it proved effective with consistent headshots. Maybe it could see utility if there were some way to switch between normal bullets and shot shells, maybe via alt fire.

Gonna say it because no-doubt others are thinking it: that thing is extremely ugly.
It looks a lot better without the foregrip. One of my favorite weapons in Global Offensive.
I found a better picture for you:
Spoiler!


Yeah, I kinda can't my wrap my head around that. Unperked shotgun deals 245 damage, provided all of the pellets hit the target. On HoE if 2 pellets go somewhere else, it can't even kill a clot. Gorefasts need 2 full shots to go down. Given that most times you don't fire from point blank range, and there's no penetration, you can actually empty whole mag in oncoming squad of zeds and still get slashed by gorefasts. Hunting shotgun is a little better in that aspect, while doing 500 unperked damage per shell, but who actually buys 10-block slow reloading, 2-shot weapon for 750, when mk23 solves all the trash-zed related problems for 500. Not to mention that crawlers have a nasty habit of ninja dodging the shotgun blasts.
That's kind of a shame. On Hard and below, the Shotgun is a passable alternative secondary for Berserkers and such. It's especially nice if you want to one-shot Crawlers but can't be assed with actually aiming. The Hunting Shotgun has a niche as well; I always liked carrying it as a Medic to deal with Husks that get uncomfortably close, and both barrels to get a Fleshpound's attention if you want to sponge an enraged hit or two from him.
 
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nd2spd

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Aug 24, 2011
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Still extremely ugly imo.
This revolver idea sounds neat. I thought maybe a sawn-off would be cool except the hunting shotgun already has the spread of a sawn-off so it wouldn't make much sense/use.
 

Captain Howel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 29, 2013
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Wait a minute, I just had a thought.

If both the Shotgun and the Hunting Shotgun prove ineffective on HoE for even trash cleaning, what the hell does the Support use? Unless I've been using them all wrong, the Combat Shotgun and HSG-1 don't prove much stronger, and apparently even the AA12 doesn't get the job done against Scrakes and Fleshpounds. What are you left with?
 

dkanus

Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Wait a minute, I just had a thought.

If both the Shotgun and the Hunting Shotgun prove ineffective on HoE for even trash cleaning, what the hell does the Support use? Unless I've been using them all wrong, the Combat Shotgun and HSG-1 don't prove much stronger, and apparently even the AA12 doesn't get the job done against Scrakes and Fleshpounds. What are you left with?

Maybe on HOE shotguns are useless off-perk (never tested it), but they are very useful for trash cleaning in support's hands. And Hunting Shotgun is useful against everything. I usually carry Hunting and whatever else I fancy at the moment. Even regular shotgun is good enough.

As for SCs and FPs, I don't think that support should be able to take them on, but he is very much able.
 

Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
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The shotgun is still a wonderful trash clearer, you just need to be more careful with your shots, and take a sidearm for single clots.

HSG has never been a trashclearer - the advantage of it is that at close range, you can 1shot sirens, husks and scrakes, and kill a FP with a combo (note: tactics required).

The CSG and KSG are great sidegrades for the PSG. Some people also use the AA12 as a sidegrade for the PSG as well, but I can't stand a 3 sec reload animation on my trashkiller weapon, so don't like this.
AA12 is pretty useless against bigger things on higher difficulties, except for as a last-ditch attempt. If there's a raging scrake running at you, it might finish it, but apart from that it's not grand.
 

Captain Howel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 29, 2013
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Guarding the Super Missile
Where'd you hear that Howel?
On the previous page.
Yeah, I kinda can't my wrap my head around that. Unperked shotgun deals 245 damage, provided all of the pellets hit the target. On HoE if 2 pellets go somewhere else, it can't even kill a clot. Gorefasts need 2 full shots to go down. Given that most times you don't fire from point blank range, and there's no penetration, you can actually empty whole mag in oncoming squad of zeds and still get slashed by gorefasts. Hunting shotgun is a little better in that aspect, while doing 500 unperked damage per shell, but who actually buys 10-block slow reloading, 2-shot weapon for 750, when mk23 solves all the trash-zed related problems for 500. Not to mention that crawlers have a nasty habit of ninja dodging the shotgun blasts.


I'd completely forgotten that the Hunting Shotgun weighs 10 ****ing blocks. No wonder you hardly ever see it used off-perk. Like I was saying in another thread, I carry it on a Medic frequently and it's great.
 

nd2spd

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Aug 24, 2011
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If both the Shotgun and the Hunting Shotgun prove ineffective on HoE for even trash cleaning, what the hell does the Support use?
Yeah, I kinda can't my wrap my head around that. Unperked shotgun deals 245 damage, provided all of the pellets hit the target. On HoE if 2 pellets go somewhere else, it can't even kill a clot. Gorefasts need 2 full shots to go down. Given that most times you don't fire from point blank range, and there's no penetration, you can actually empty whole mag in oncoming squad of zeds and still get slashed by gorefasts. Hunting shotgun is a little better in that aspect, while doing 500 unperked damage per shell, but who actually buys 10-block slow reloading, 2-shot weapon for 750, when mk23 solves all the trash-zed related problems for 500. Not to mention that crawlers have a nasty habit of ninja dodging the shotgun blasts.

Found the issue. You're talking about on-perk, Vealck was talking about off-perk. Support is pretty beastly with these 2 weapons, off-perk they're not so great.
 

Eldiablo1989

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2013
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No truer words have ever been written. Love, love LOVE the HSG-12. Awesome weapon.

As for the shotgun, it is a standard shotgun. Why spend the trouble to build it?

amen. its my favorite shotgun in the game. great spread, great damage, great capacity, and great reload time. besides, the mag 7 is ugly :p
 

Althamus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 13, 2012
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Found the issue. You're talking about on-perk, Vealck was talking about off-perk. Support is pretty beastly with these 2 weapons, off-perk they're not so great.

Plus, shotguns have a 1.65x modifier. I normally fire at head-height and if a few pellets hit the head, it'll decap the zed. In this way, you can easily take the head off a few zeds standing in a line.

Shooting them into it's torso, while hitting with more pellets, is less effective.
 

Spartan1388

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 17, 2013
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Instead of this Uzi-mini shotgun hybrid, i would prefer the Moss 12 to be added officially, with a weight of 2, which is realistic and will also allow Supports to carry it as secondary.

You will only have 3-4 shots, but the full shells will be more effective than these mini-shells of the MAG-7.
 

Spartan1388

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 17, 2013
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No, because is a short barrel shotgun, with short range, wide spread and very limited magazine capacity.

(Since when are we worrying about realism anyway...?)

Basically, the Moss 12 is a sawed-off shotgun, or "Lupara", something made with making big damage at point blank range in mind.

When the support is surrounded, or there are many enemies in from of them and the main weapon is empty, this would come in handy.


The MAG7 thingy would make sense if, as i had suggested before, different perks get different pistols and knifes, but i believe that a cheap Moss 12 with the characteristics i mentioned above would be even better.
 

Captain Howel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 29, 2013
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Guarding the Super Missile
Weight of 2 is something I've only seen on pistols. You mentioned short-range, wide spread, low capacity, and big damage at point blank.
So, it sounds like the 410 revolver really would be a good option. To be clear, when I say "good" I mean "fitting." I'm not sure how much use it would get since in order to be balanced, it would probably end up being entirely outclassed by all other shotguns, so the Support would be better off with... well, anything. It's not exactly like he needs to worry as much about weight as the others.