Search & Destroy

[vealck]

Allright. Don't know about you, but I'm a little tired by both of the common playing strategies. Right now it's either berserker gang kiting everything for hours or bunch of supports and demos just sitting in one tight spot. Come on, KF-Departed, for example, is a big, beautiful and detailed map and every game on suicidal or HoE is just bunch of players sitting in the tiniest room, just unloading their weapons in the doorway, not even seeing their targets due to smoke from explosives.

What I propose, is new, optional search & destroy gametype, in which:

• Zeds spawn in large groups evenly through the entire map and do not have homing on players when not in line of sight.

• The core of the group would consist of several big zeds (1-2 fleshpounds, 4 scrakes, a mix of sirens and husks and so on).

• Smaller zeds spawn continuously at nearby spawn points until the core group is eliminated. If you can't deal with big ones fast enough, you can find yourself completely overran by clots and crawlers.

• After eliminating one group, another one is spawned at distant location, so the team has to relocate and find next batch of zeds.

• After certain number of core groups are destroyed, all traders open. Also, ammo and weapon pickups should be more frequent.

• There could be multiple groups on a map simultaneously, so players could encounter one group while running from another.

That kind of gametype would force players to move and pick a fight in random areas, use berserkers as scouts, set traps and killzones, require some of the players to keep watch on the oncoming trash zeds while the rest focuses on biggies and so on.

And what's best - I think it would be quite easy to implement. Just a few adjustments to spawn mechanism and no global homing for zeds.

Yay or nay? Suggestions welcomed.

 

[Spicy]

I'd play it.

 

[Skalli]

Hi,
I like your idea. Only one point:

• Zeds spawn in large groups evenly through the entire map and do not have homing on players when not in line of sight.

Do you think the actual maps could be used for this mode? I think it would end up only in Support/Demolition teams with the actual "little" maps (like Hospital Horrors, Bedlam, Departed and so on).

Place some Pipebombs, take a LAW or a HSg, and HoE won't be hard to beat.

 

[FluX]

Allright. Don't know about you, but I'm a little tired by both of the common playing strategies. Right now it's either berserker gang kiting everything for hours or bunch of supports and demos just sitting in one tight spot. Come on, KF-Departed, for example, is a big, beautiful and detailed map and every game on suicidal or HoE is just bunch of players sitting in the tiniest room, just unloading their weapons in the doorway, not even seeing their targets due to smoke from explosives.

What I propose, is new, optional search & destroy gametype, in which:

• Zeds spawn in large groups evenly through the entire map and do not have homing on players when not in line of sight.

• The core of the group would consist of several big zeds (1-2 fleshpounds, 4 scrakes, a mix of sirens and husks and so on).

• Smaller zeds spawn continuously at nearby spawn points until the core group is eliminated. If you can't deal with big ones fast enough, you can find yourself completely overran by clots and crawlers.

• After eliminating one group, another one is spawned at distant location, so the team has to relocate and find next batch of zeds.

• After certain number of core groups are destroyed, all traders open. Also, ammo and weapon pickups should be more frequent.

• There could be multiple groups on a map simultaneously, so players could encounter one group while running from another.

That kind of gametype would force players to move and pick a fight in random areas, use berserkers as scouts, set traps and killzones, require some of the players to keep watch on the oncoming trash zeds while the rest focuses on biggies and so on.

And what's best - I think it would be quite easy to implement. Just a few adjustments to spawn mechanism and no global homing for zeds.

Yay or nay? Suggestions welcomed.

Wait im a little confused. Is this a two way battle or something (zeds are pretty much the defence of each team)? I like how this is going so far but whether it feels KF like, not really.

 

[vealck]

Place some Pipebombs, take a LAW or a HSg, and HoE won't be hard to beat.

That's why zed groups should be more powerful than normally spawned ones. Players can heal themselves and reload everything prior to engaging next group, that sits behind the corner. Zed squads should be consisting of several FP's, Scrakes and multiple supporting zeds like sirens and husks. Plus, when group of biggies is engaged in fight, nearby spawns continuously flood the area with lesser zeds.

The main idea is to force players to move around the map and play fast, intensive skirmishes with high tier enemies in various places, that normally wouldn't be picked as camping positions.

 

[Skalli]

The main idea is to force players to move around the map and play fast, intensive skirmishes with high tier enemies in various places, that normally wouldn't be picked as camping positions.

So we need some new maps or remakes of the actual maps because I don't think it would be fun to run around and "search and destroy" in Foundry or Bedlam..

It's a little mix of KF and Defence Alliance 2 I think.

 

[CandleJack]

At first i was like, "ew Search and Destroy, CoD? No thanks"

Then i actually read it.

Good work, you made me take a bad reaction and turn it into a good one.

That's rare.

 

[Pink_Rapefruit]

sounds great but hey, im still waiting for official mission maps too lets see what gets implemented first (if anything at all)

 

[Mateusz]

Sounds like it could be fun, and something new. Having the player find and kill the specimens, rather than the other way around, in itself is a big change to the game to make things interesting. In a way, this could feel like Doom, or Undying, where the player roams around the map, finds enemies, and kills them, rather than being able to just find a safe spot and let them come.

I did have a few questions, though. How much more spawning of ammo and weapons will there be, and how will the game handle where they're spawned? Since there could be unlimited enemies, from the constantly spawning mooks, players could run dry pretty quickly, and if the only ammo cache is in the middle of a huge mob, it'd be a disaster.

Would specimens patrol, or would they just wait around to be found. I think that it would be more interesting to have them guard a territory. Since they don't all start alerted to the player's presence, and don't know where players are from the start, would the player be able to lure some away? I could see some strategy like picking off clots or husks from a distance, before going in for the kill against Fleshpounds, since attacking a full mob would be suicidal. And finally, would enemies look for you if you run and hide, and then eventually go back to their patrol? Again, I can see new strategy here with hit and run tactics, especially for a sharpshooter, LAW demolitionist (in fact, this game type makes the LAW much more feasible, as they don't all get in your face from the onset), or even a berserker or medic, with their speed.

Anyway, however this is implemented, I really am digging the idea of the players hunting down specimens, and eliminating them tactically, rather than running around and finding three gorefasts spawned on top of your head, while a pair of bloats spawns behind you. When enemies start spawned, it feel more like strategy and skill more than luck will keep you alive.

 

[TheBoobyTrap]

inb4 this will be a mod and not actually a game type as part of official KF

 

[vealck]

So we need some new maps or remakes of the actual maps because I don't think it would be fun to run around and "search and destroy" in Foundry or Bedlam..

I assume that you're concerned about long distances and therefore long searching periods? In such maps there could be 4,5 or even more independent groups spawned at start of given wave, so you'd encounter one of them quite soon. Hell, you could even be trapped between two groups and have to make some tough choices...

So, there would be 4-5 groups in different locations at wave start. After destroying one group, additional one is spawned in remote place. Wave would end after defeating a certain number of these groups (let's say about 10). I guess even finding the last one wouldn't be boring - you just have to look where you haven't been yet - and players could scavenge the map for ammo meantime.

It's a little mix of KF and Defence Alliance 2 I think.

Hmm. Never actually played it.

How much more spawning of ammo and weapons will there be, and how will the game handle where they're spawned?

I guess spawn rate could be similar to that on normal difficulty. It's another motivation to deal with main group as quickly as possible before the continuously spawning trash zeds will eat all the team's ammo.

Would specimens patrol, or would they just wait around to be found.

The lesser ones could be patrolling immediate area, while main biggies could just stand still and wait to be 'triggered'.

Optionally, one of zeds belonging to a given group, upon seeing a player could trigger whole group to target that player. But this needs some thought, actually.

 

[Mateusz]

Optionally, one of zeds belonging to a given group, upon seeing a player could trigger whole group to target that player. But this needs some thought, actually.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if it's prohibitively difficult to tweek the AI for it, but maybe there could be some scouts who'd look around for players, and upon seeing them, either engage, or run back to the group to report back. The players would have to try to quickly kill them before they alert the rest.

As for ammo, I think that it'd be a good balance to have not so much that you can just sit around stockpiling, but enough that you won't be in a situation where you don't have enough to fight the big mobs. Maybe there could be some dynamic spawning, where the game gives you what you need. Like if you have below a certain threshold, say 25% your current total amount, then it spawns enough to get you there, and after that, it spawns more slowly. You could always have enough to survive, but if you aren't careful and don't go seek out mobs, you would have a tougher time. Also, it'd encourage being resourceful.

However it's done, I think this has the potential to really be a fun new way to play.

 

[Skalli]

I don't know if it's prohibitively difficult to tweek the AI for it, but maybe there could be some scouts who'd look around for players, and upon seeing them, either engage, or run back to the group to report back. The players would have to try to quickly kill them before they alert the rest.

I thought about that, too and I like it. Only one more thing: Our actual ZEDs aren't very intelligent. Maybe we need other ZEDs, which have the intelligence to force the other ZEDs to do something (e.g. the Skaarj Scout and the Specter could do this job).

I assume that you're concerned about long distances and therefore long searching periods? In such maps there could be 4,5 or even more independent groups spawned at start of given wave, so you'd encounter one of them quite soon. Hell, you could even be trapped between two groups and have to make some tough choices...

No, not really long distances. Only "longer". Don't you think that Bedlam is to small for 4-5 spawn points with 30-50 ZEDs per spawn?

P.S.: Please correct me when I make some comma faults. Punctuation isn't very easy in English.

 

[vealck]

I thought about that, too and I like it. Only one more thing: Our actual ZEDs aren't very intelligent. Maybe we need other ZEDs, which have the intelligence to force the other ZEDs to do something (e.g. the Skaarj Scout and the Specter could do this job).

Hmm... some kind of 'howler' creature, that upon seeing you calls for his group to come? Could be a different-colored, faster clot or gorefast.

That actually wouldn't be that hard to implement, I guess - the easiest way is to bind the group's awareness to scouts. When scout sees player, all group knows where he is and starts moving.

Upon killing the scout the group loses track, unless other members of group see the player.

No, not really long distances. Only "longer". Don't you think that Bedlam is to small for 4-5 spawn points with 30-50 ZEDs per spawn?

I think that even smaller maps like bioticslab and westlondon could hold easily 3 groups at the same time. Given that the 'core' of the group would consist of about 15-20 strong zeds and the lesser ones would start spawning only after the core group is engaged in combat by players. On bedlam there could be even as many as 6 groups at the same time in my opinion.

The only problem is that it could make some performance problems on slower computers, so the AI of zeds would have to be 'frozen' if they are a certain distance from the nearest player. Right now, KF processes AI of all the zeds on the map simultaneously.

 

[FraKctured]

I think your idea is fantastic, hunting down the zeds would be alot of fun and yes brg alot more tactics to the game play, also considering KF is about failed military cloning experiments and the Characters eiher got caught up in it or some of them are in the military or police force and they are actually hunting them down tryin to wipe them out, so this idea is damn awesome, u would need to definately have more ammo/ guns drops but what if the traders stayed open? after u unlock them i think u mentioned somethin like that but, then if u got a break u could hit up the trader restock and find more zeds to slay, if u did that we prolly wouldnt need ALOT more weapon/ammo drops but would still need more than average

 

[Blockbot]

Like the Idea

But I got a Issue.
Theres normaly max 32. zed on the map at all times.
and if this would be changed then the requirements of the game raises :/ that would not be good for my oldfashion "EMERGENCY LAN LAPTOP"

and but changing the max zed thingy would make the game way more intresting <3

 

[vealck]

Like the Idea

But I got a Issue.
Theres normaly max 32. zed on the map at all times.
and if this would be changed then the requirements of the game raises :/ that would not be good for my oldfashion "EMERGENCY LAN LAPTOP"

Yeah, I suggested a possible solution in my earlier post:

The only problem is that it could make some performance problems on slower computers, so the AI of zeds would have to be 'frozen' if they are a certain distance from the nearest player. Right now, KF processes AI of all the zeds on the map simultaneously.

So, basically, there are about 100 zeds on map at once, but those that cannot be seen by players are not processed by AI, as they don't have any target routes at the moment.

 

[Krazeh]

Depends..... If tripwire even bothers trying to update KF or even reading this idea

 

[OCAdam]

Depends..... If tripwire even bothers trying to update KF or even reading this idea

Chances are that TWI does read ideas and suggestions. As for updating more... the game is somewhat old and does get updates here and there for mostly balance stuff, along with white/gray list updates. Also, this summer sideshow event is an update of sorts, right? Well I hope it counts to ya!

I feel if maybe the community itself decided to implement more of the better ideas itself, then we might see a few being added to the whitelists or graylists.