Scientist Perk (3rd attempt) (CC Zeds, Team support, and Weapon upgrade synergy.)

[Demon Swords]

Scientist Perk​

Goal of Perk: Perk around CCing, Weapon Upgrades, and setting up for damage perks.

Weapons: Supportive Weapons that are ice, Electric, or other science based.

Starting Weapon: Taser Pistol (see bottom before rationale).

Grenade: Freezing Grenade (Sharpshooter’s, unique Alt ideas at bottom of post).

Knife: Laser scalpel (would kind of like a screwdriver instead, but a screwdriver wouldn’t make sense with the attack animations of knives.)

Special Xp: Incaping Zeds (Freezing, Stumbling, Stunning.)

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Basics
Move speed boost of 0.4% per lv (max 10%.)
Increase incap power by 4% per Lv (max 100%.)
EMP damage resists by +2% per lv. (max 50%.)

Special Basics:

Inhuman Testing:

• Players killing a Zed Frozen, Stumbled, or Stunned by you have a 1% chance per 5 levels to activate Zed Time. (chance only applies while the Zed is Incaped.)

Tinkerer

• During Zed Time, Weapons reload 1% faster per lv (max 25%) and another 10% per upgrade on the weapon. (applies to all players.) (Would not stack with other zed time reload boosts.)

Special Alloy

• Upgraded Perk weapons do not have increased weight on you.

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Tier 1 - Damage Control

Lingering Effects

• Zeds you Freeze, Stumble, or Stun with a perk weapon or Grenade, deal 10% reduced damage and move 10% slower. (Permanently, does not stack with Itself)

Parasitic Ice

• Players Killing a zed that you Freeze, Stumble, or Stun by your perk weapon or Grenade, heals that player by 4 health.
• (activates only while zed is currently incapped.)

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Tier 2 - Technique

Tactical Reload

• Increase reload speed with perk weapons.

Nimble

• Increase move speed by 10%. Increase Weapon Switch speed by 50%.

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Tier 3 - Power Gear

Power Gauntlets

• Increase perk weapon damage by 15%.
• Gun Bashes deal 10% more damage and another 5% per weapon upgrade.

Power Armor

• Gain 15% resistance to all damage. For each upgrade on your equipped weapon, gain another 5% resistance.

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Tier 4 - Equipment

Energy Pack

• Increase Range of Perk Weapons. Increase Grenade AOE by 25%.(Freezethrower, Arc Generator, Killowhat, Firehose, Plasma Shotgun, Bile Launcher, Allt of Taser and Zed Eradication)

Utility Belt

• Increase Wielding, Weapon charges, Battery, and Syringe recovery rate by 50%.
• Carry 15% more ammo for perk weapons.

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Tier 5 - Unnatural Disaster (effects and Name pending.)

Zed Time: Unlimited Funding

• During Zed Time, Increase area of effect and range of perk weapons by 25%, and you have unlimited ammo.

Zed Time: PermaFrost

• During Zed Time, increase Incapacitation power of perk weapons by 100% and your Dots and Incaps last 25% longer.
• (the lasting longer would actually work by having the effect dissipate at 75% its normal rate during the Zed Time.)

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Existing Weapons:
Frost Fang (dlc), Tier 3
Hemogoblin, Tier 3
Freezethrower, Tier 3
HRG Teslauncher, Tier 4
HRG Arc Generator, Tier 4
Killerwatt, Tier 5

New weapon Ideas for Scientist:

Taser (pistol):

• Tier 1/ Starting weapon, (possibly also gunslinger.)
• Normal pistol primary attack like Field Medic Starter.
• Alt: Shots out a taser that deals low Emp damage and has a stun power (or a high stumble power). (Alt uses charges like weapons with syringes do.)

Freezing Grenade Launcher

• Tier 2
• Grenade Launcher variant that freezes instead of stumbles and doing explosive damage.

Zed Eradication Device MKII (killing floor 1 weapon.)

• Tier 2
• Primary Attack: rapid-fire stream of energy orbs (Emp?)
• Alt Attack: beam that slows zeds;
• Other: Also has a display screen that shows Zed location.
• (Note: Not going to use the more expansive version from KF1 since scientist class is about weapon upgrades and using a large variety of weapons for their utility.)

Plasma Shotgun

• Tier 3, Cross-per with support
• Primary: Emp damage. Pellets will bounce off walls. Limited Pellet travel distance.
• Alt Attack: Spend charges of the Weider Equipment to Weld doors from a Distance.

Bile Launcher (Killing floor 1 weapon)

• Tier 3, (could also be field medic, like in KF 1, but it doesn't heal so i don't think it should be.)
• Primary: Launches poisonous bile in a way like the flamethrower.
• Alt: Shots 7 projectiles in a large area.
• Possible mechanic: Causing zeds to attack nearby Bloats like in KF 1.
• (Notes: I didn’t actually play this weapon in KF 1 so the descriptions I included are solely based on the wiki page.)

(Portable) Steam(Punk) Fire Hose

• Tier 5, cross-perk with Swat, 10 Weight?
• Does Bludgeon Damage .Has a High Stumble Power that falls off over distance.(Shoots a short distance then curves downward at the end.)
• Giant tank on back. The weapon you hold is a hose causing a High Weapon Switch speed.
• Uses a Pressure Gauge instead of magazines. (Pressure Gauge recharges while fire hose is not firing) (Mag size increases pressure amount, Reload speed increases recharge rate.) (if other pressure weapons were made, they would use the same gauge.)
• Other: no iron scope mode.

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Rational for basics: As a perk based around support instead of damage, I decided to mirror some of the basics of the Field medic which include move speed and damage reduction to a certain type. Similarly, I included better incap power as a base kit to mirror Field Medics better healing and syringe recovery. Didn’t mirror Field Medics extra armor as I put tankiness into the perks. (also already had 6 basics.)

Rationale for special Basics: About most of the good perks have some sort of benefit for the other players other then high damage (demo’s grenade generation, support’s ammo generation, Commando’s zed time reset and enemy detection, Sharpshooter’s zed time chance, Field Medic’s healing.) Though the scientist’s ability to CC is a way to help other players, every perk has skill(s) to CC (though ignored when damage is the alternate option.) With a desire of adding extra benefits to upgrading I decided to make that as a part of the scientists kit. Zed time reload was chosen as it is useful enough to be impactful, but not strong enough to ruin the balance of using upgraded weapons instead of higher tier weapons. The extra chance of activating zed time is to both a way of giving more benefit to CCing Zeds and to compensate for the damage decrease that having a scientist instead of another perk brings.


Tier 1 Rational: Both of these perks are about helping your team stay alive through two different means. Decreasing damage and slowing Zeds helps your team dodge better and take less when they fail. Healing is obviously about keeping team health high. (Specified Freeze, Stumble, and Stun to prevent CCs like hemoglobin's bleed or the small push back of weapon and melee hits cause.)


Rational of tier 2: I wanted to include even more move speed bonus as well as weapon switch speed, so I made a skill around it and made tactical reload the other skill as it was the closest alternative in similar impact. Moving speed is important to scientists to allow for quicker transitions between which ally you are supporting while also working well with CC for escaping enemies. The weapon switch speed is to allow for quick switches between the unique mechanics that each one brings.

Rational of Tier 3: I wanted to make a balanced trade-off for Damage vs Tank for this perk. The field Medic Starts with bonus armor and tier 1 can make FM tanky while the FM can also choose skills for damage. Included scaling based on weapon upgrades to further the potential of the build as well as to give more later round potential.

Rational of Tier 4: Included these two because I think they are interesting and because having another high impact tier may make the scientist too strong. Though neither is strong they both have a big enough impact to have the choice be meaningful. Range increase is nice for being a backline as well as makes the grenades more useful. The other one is good for strengthening the frequency of your utility for Healing others or Alt Tasser. Also makes you slightly more tank by letting you Q self heal more often.

Rational of Tier 5: Unlimited Funding lets you have increased offense potential through no longer needing to conserve ammo and increasing ability to hit multiple enemies with some weapons. Perma Frost is about keeping enemies CC’ed and setting up enemies for more Zed times. Neither of these are crazy strong, but the ability to increase frequency of Zed times for your team needed a balancing point somewhere.

 

[Aleflippy]

To elaborate on my answers to your poll : I believe the existing perks already need so much rebalancing that it would be counter-intuitive to bring a new one into the fray. The medic and survivalist especially are in dire need of tweaks. Meanwhile, the sharp cool use a cooler skill tree while the SWAT is a bit underwhelming. I really believe waiting for KF3 for a new perk is the way to go (I believe there's a good deal of chance they'll do it anyway)

Now on to your idea... My god, you really thought a lot about that one didn't you?

-First, I'd like to say that my personal idea for the perk would be to make it a supportive perk alongside the medic. I even thought about giving the various buffs of the medic to the scientist, so the latter would be a buff/debuff specialist with various "tool-like" weapons, while the medic would be totally focusing on healing (and possibly poisoning)

-I dig the idea of earning extra XP by Incaping zeds ! That's quite clever and in-tone with the perk's idea. Similarly, it's proficiency with electrical and cryo weaponry makes far more sense with him than the survivalist (who has become a "weapon dump" at that point) or the sharpshooter (why did it become the cryo perk is beyond me).

-Regarding passives... Does any enemy actually inflicts you EMP damage? I can't recall... the Matriarch maybe? Still, that's so situational is bordering on being useless. I believe something else should be thought of instead. I do like the Zed-time bonuses though, it also very fit with the supportive nature of the perk ! I'm a bit more cautious about the extra speed however... we've seen multiple times how broken that may be for kiting players. But considering the Scientist doesn't look like he would be able to dish out TONS of damage (unlike what the medic has become), maybe it's alright. I'm not fond of the "no extra weight when upgrading" idea however. It's essential to the upgrade system to offer a downside along with an upside. Now it is true that the upgrade system quickly got abandoned, but still. It should stay a choice other than "should I spend that extra dosh?"

-Level 5 : nothing much to say, those are good skills. They encourage the player to make use of their arsenal and get rewarded for it, but not to unfair levels. And both would be helpful even if you're playing solo (although, just like the medic, I feel both perks should lose much of their appeal that way... I believe that's why the medic got turned into a one-man-army : they wanted to make the perk enjoyable when playing alone and thus made him way too good)

-Level 10 : I'm very cautious about Nimble once again ! Having a perk moving 20% faster is a scary thought, even if it would mean forgetting about the ever-helpful "tactical reload". I believe we should have another idea that is similarly helpful to counterbalance the very meta "tactical reload", but not that game-breaking. Maaaybe you could actually get a speed boost if you kill a zed encased in ice? As a tongue-in-cheek irony (plus it would fit very well with the extra weapon swap speed)

-Level 15 : Damage is the other "meta-pick" as far as skills are concerned. Most people go straight for the damage upgrade. Thus, I wouldn't say I'm that confident that it's a great idea. But on the other hand, unlike other perks, you don't have any passive increasing your damage as you level up... which might prove to be a severe downside to the scientist. Hell, I wonder if you shouldn't make the level 15 (or even level 10?) skills BOTH damage increases, albeit different. Like for example dealing 33% extra damage to a debuffed enemy (which would go along even more nicely with the extra weapon swap speed of "Nimble" !). Meanwhile, power armour could be put elsewhere... and also tweaked a little. Otherwise, you could end up with nearly 50% damage resistance to EVERYTHING by the end of the game. That's way too good, even if your damage output isn't so great. Maybe removing the innate 15% damage resistance or adding less resistance per upgrade (3% ?) would be better). Or just think about specific damage resistances (but which one? Considering most other perks already got some)

-Level 20 : Meh...I find both options fairly boring to be honest. Useful, sure, but not very exciting for level 20 skills. I also believe the extra range and AoE is nowhere near as good as healing more often and having more reserve ammo (considering most weapons deplete their reserves quite fast). It also doesn't help that a good chunk of the scientist's weapons actually wouldn't benefit from extra range (like the Teslauncher, Killerwatt, Hemogoblin...maybe they could have increased projectile velocity instead? And the Frost Fang and Plasma Shotgun could have tighter spread to increase it's effective range)

-Level 25 : I don't know if the extra incapacitation power would be truly useful during zed-time... I mean, it could save you in a pinch, but Zed-time is already some sort of "incap" as you get to quickly dispatch zeds by aiming for the head. Wouldn't stunning, freezing, emp'ing them be considered overkill of some sort? I guess it's not useless, but way too situational. "Unlimited Funding" is quite better. A bit straightforward, but definitely okay if you use a weapon that melts through its ammo very fast (and/or could use a little more range). But similarly... Would it be truly beneficial to weapons like the Plasma Shotgun or Hemogoblin?

-WEAPONS !

Ain't gonna lie, I'm displeased with what KF2 has become regarding weapons. They pretty much add whatever a perk doesn't have at that point... And that sucks bad. Because it means the arsenal of each perk is now cluttered with weapons that are either useless, not fitting for their role or just in the middle of too many options. And I won't lie... I kinda feel the same about your ideas. I feel they're not cohesive enough. Not very "linked" to each other might I even say. I believe it would be better to have LESS weapons, but make them flow seamlessly with each other.

Let's dissect each of them :

Frost Fang : I never quite understood why that gun was a cryo gun to begin with. It's pretty much a boomstick with added flavour. And considering the scientist is meant to be a supportive perk, I believe it doesn't really fit him.

I actually...Agree with all the other existing weapon choices. They're all more about making zeds go through a living hell than pure, raw, damage. Sure, the Killerwatt is also a fairly punishing gun, but it's a T5 so... The scientist does deserve something to attack the bosses with. I'll allow it. I do find the Teslauncher quite boring as a weapon though, it's like a poor man's Helios Rifle... Plus, I do believe it makes for a bit too many T3s. But I guess if we added such a perk to KF2, he would need to have stuff to compete with the others. We cannot introduce a perk with only four guns when everybody else has multiple options for each tiers (well...Except T1 and T5)

Taser pistol : besides that I don't really get what you mean by "low EMP damage", I dig the idea. Again, it suits the perk as a complementary support perk alongside the medic. It's totally decent.

Freeze Grenade Launcher : kind of like a HRG Thumper? I guess it could work, but the main issue I can see is that it would be more of a tool than a true "weapon" and if the C4 is any indication... People rarely, if ever, use those. It could be neat during the latest waves when money doesn't become a problem anymore. But other than that... I think people would either wait to get their hands on a proper T3 or just get the ZED MkII. And for that one, I have no idea on how to improve the gun.

ZED MkII : A MILLION TIMES YES ! It is the one gun I've been asking to get back from KF1 (and one of the gun I wanted to give to my own Scientist idea). I do believe it deserves better than a T2 however... T3 or even 4 would be even better. Let's not forget it's pretty much a "emp grenade launcher" too ! I would personally switch the plasma shotgun's tiers, but it's a minor gripe.

Plasma shotgun : wielding doors from a distance is a weird gimmick, but it could be a very fun one and a way to make it maybe a bit more desirable. I also dig the ricochet effect... But I hope it would be more usable and fun than the VLAD's own bouncing. Still wondering what "EMP damage" means as I always thought that EMP meant slowing down zeds more than damaging them. But I like the idea, way more so than the Frost Fang. And again... a nice nod to the medic's own shotgun. I believe it should behave similarly in his hands (fairly low-damage, but with tons of utility to make it worthwhile)

Bile launcher: ain't gonna lie... that weapon freaking SUCKED back in KF1 man. Sure, it wasn't expensive, but it was simply a waste of everyone's time because, as you said, the weapon couldn't heal. I guess it would fit the Scientist a little better (and allow him to have a crowd-control role similar to the firebug), but I do believe that considering the gun doesn't use electricity or ice, it still has a weird spot... For something that would behave somewhat similarly to the Freezethrower too.

Steam(punk) fire hose : I have to be sincere and say that I actually didn't understand what this gun was about? What does it do, what is it, what's its purpose and why is it a crossperk with SWAT?

 

[Demon Swords]

-Regarding passives... etc

Matriarch, King Fleshpound, and E.D.E.R Trapper all have Lasers that should do Emp damage. The swats bullet resistance only effects blaster E.D.E.R and hans. For the movespeed, I was mirroring the supportiveness Field Medic got from its basics but it might have been overkill. Would need to think about that when reworking scientist. Could just give increased carrying capacity instead of special alloy.

-Level 10 : I'm very cautious about Nimble once again! ... Maaaybe you could actually get a speed boost if you kill a zed encased in ice?

I again did the move speed to mirror the Field Medic. Your alt idea is definitely something to consider.

-Level 15 :..

The actual number of damage resist would be max of 35% (15 + 4*5%) unless you were to add the damage resist of armor (still to high though).

-Level 20 : Meh...I find both options fairly boring to be honest. Useful, sure, but not very exciting for level 20 skills.

Well, most perks seem to have at least 1 tier with two skills that aren't too strong. Though it is arguable that one of the other tiers is already like that, I didn't want to make the scientist so op in teams that it is an instant include. Do still need to think more about this though.

-Level 25 : I don't know if the extra incapacitation power would be truly useful during zed-time..

Yeah I kind of didn't know what I wanted for the Tier 5 besides Unlimited Funding. Perma Frost either needs an extra benifit from CCing or there needs to be more synergy earlier in the Scientists kit.

-WEAPONS !
Not very "linked" to each other might I even say. I believe it would be better to have LESS weapons, but make them flow seamlessly with each other.

The point kind of was to have a bunch of different weapons with different purposes and then you upgrade whichever combination of utility you want into becoming higher tier versions instead of having higher tier variants exist.

Frost Fang : I never quite understood why that gun was a cryo gun to begin with. It's pretty much a boomstick with added flavour. And considering the scientist is meant to be a supportive perk, I believe it doesn't really fit him.

I never played it so I wasn't sure how it felt. Kind of just included it because it was cryo and could make tripwire more money by making the weapon have more uses. (thus making the scientist more likely to become a thing.) I did already drop the cryo pistols because too damage based. Also too many tier 3s. For now in my reworking I have dropped it.

Taser pistol : besides that I don't really get what you mean by "low EMP damage", I dig the idea. Again, it suits the perk as a complementary support perk alongside the medic. It's totally decent.

I kind of took the liberty to think of Emp damage as anything electric or laser based since Matriarch, King Fleshpound, and E.D.E.R Trapper all have Lasers that do Emp damage and emp grenade kind of looks like electricity. It is a bit confusing since kf2 wiki says the arc generator does emp damage and cc type but the kilowatt has emp cc type but does not do emp damage.

Freeze Grenade Launcher :

I was thinking of this weapon as more of a build ender weapon. That you would buy this as your last weapon to smooth out your arsenal of effects.

ZED MkII : A MILLION TIMES YES !

I could just make the ordinary Zed eradication gun a higher tier option. Though I do want to push the idea of an upgrade build, it would not work in shorter matches.

Bile launcher: ain't gonna lie... that weapon freaking SUCKED back in KF1 man.

Never played it so I didn't know how it felt back then. Will be removing it because I will be reworking the poison theme of it into the fire hose.

Steam(punk) fire hose : I have to be sincere and say that I actually didn't understand what this gun was about? What does it do, what is it, what's its purpose and why is it a crossperk with SWAT?

(Will be reworking this into a poison based weapon and thus will be dropping the idea of it being swat. The following is my initial reasoning for the weapon.) The Fire hose is a bludgeon damaging weapon that has a high stumble power at a short distance. The magizine / reload replacement mechanic functions similarly to the battery where use makes the gauges go down and any non-use (including not equipped) makes the gauge go up. Reload speed increases speed of gauge recharge and mag size increases maximum gauge size (still uses ammo when firing as usual). The weapon is based around the idea that firehoses where used by police in riots way back as a Crowd control. The reason that this is S.W.A.T. is because Swat is basically a variant of the police allowing sense lore wise. As for practicality, Swat is basically a class around cc through stumble power and tankiness. I see it very weird and boring then that every Swat weapon is just an smg. Any weapon that is based on stumble power, has a low range, and makes sense lore wise should be able to be as a swat weapon. As such I made firehose a swat weapon. (honestly the firehose was more of an idea for swat that I made into also scientist through calling it steampunk.)

 

[Aleflippy]

Matriarch, King Fleshpound, and E.D.E.R Trapper all have Lasers that should do Emp damage. The swats bullet resistance only effects blaster E.D.E.R and hans. For the movespeed, I was mirroring the supportiveness Field Medic got from its basics but it might have been overkill. Would need to think about that when reworking scientist. Could just give increased carrying capacity instead of special alloy.

I again did the move speed to mirror the Field Medic. Your alt idea is definitely something to consider.

The actual number of damage resist would be max of 35% (15 + 4*5%) unless you were to add the damage resist of armor (still to high though).

Well, most perks seem to have at least 1 tier with two skills that aren't too strong. Though it is arguable that one of the other tiers is already like that, I didn't want to make the scientist so op in teams that it is an instant include. Do still need to think more about this though.

Yeah I kind of didn't know what I wanted for the Tier 5 besides Unlimited Funding. Perma Frost either needs an extra benifit from CCing or there needs to be more synergy earlier in the Scientists kit.

The point kind of was to have a bunch of different weapons with different purposes and then you upgrade whichever combination of utility you want into becoming higher tier versions instead of having higher tier variants exist.

I never played it so I wasn't sure how it felt. Kind of just included it because it was cryo and could make tripwire more money by making the weapon have more uses. (thus making the scientist more likely to become a thing.) I did already drop the cryo pistols because too damage based. Also too many tier 3s. For now in my reworking I have dropped it.

I kind of took the liberty to think of Emp damage as anything electric or laser based since Matriarch, King Fleshpound, and E.D.E.R Trapper all have Lasers that do Emp damage and emp grenade kind of looks like electricity. It is a bit confusing since kf2 wiki says the arc generator does emp damage and cc type but the kilowatt has emp cc type but does not do emp damage.

I was thinking of this weapon as more of a build ender weapon. That you would buy this as your last weapon to smooth out your arsenal of effects.

I could just make the ordinary Zed eradication gun a higher tier option. Though I do want to push the idea of an upgrade build, it would not work in shorter matches.

Never played it so I didn't know how it felt back then. Will be removing it because I will be reworking the poison theme of it into the fire hose.

(Will be reworking this into a poison based weapon and thus will be dropping the idea of it being swat. The following is my initial reasoning for the weapon.) The Fire hose is a bludgeon damaging weapon that has a high stumble power at a short distance. The magizine / reload replacement mechanic functions similarly to the battery where use makes the gauges go down and any non-use (including not equipped) makes the gauge go up. Reload speed increases speed of gauge recharge and mag size increases maximum gauge size (still uses ammo when firing as usual). The weapon is based around the idea that firehoses where used by police in riots way back as a Crowd control. The reason that this is S.W.A.T. is because Swat is basically a variant of the police allowing sense lore wise. As for practicality, Swat is basically a class around cc through stumble power and tankiness. I see it very weird and boring then that every Swat weapon is just an smg. Any weapon that is based on stumble power, has a low range, and makes sense lore wise should be able to be as a swat weapon. As such I made firehose a swat weapon. (honestly the firehose was more of an idea for swat that I made into also scientist through calling it steampunk.)

-Never said it made more sense for the SWAT to have bullet damage resistance ha ha, but that's a fair point. Nevertheless, in order to make its passives more akin to the Medic's, I think he should have a lil' something more... Maybe resistance to the siren's sonic attacks? I get that you wanted to make the speed on-par with the FM and I believe the problem doesn't stem from the scientist but the medic itself... The perk shouldn't be that fast. With its added healing capabilities, it can kite on forever. But for the moment, I guess it can stay. As for extra weight capacity... Considering most of his weapons are fairly heavy, that would be quite good I think. But it's also a bit situational.

-My apologies regarding "Power Armor", I thought it counted EVERY upgrade (thus you could have 15% + two fully upgraded guns against the bosses, bringing the count to like 40-50%... Way too much IMO). But if it's only a maximum of four, that's already way better. 35% is still a pretty impressive bonus, it means you'd be able to tank one third of damage... Nearly as much as a zerk (who needs to parry in order to get such a bonus). But again, considering the scientist is weaker in raw-damage output, I guess it makes sense. That would also make him tankier, just like the SWAT (when he got armor) and the zerk (with the right skills). Tankiness is also a welcomed trait for any supportive class/perk.

-Regarding level 20 : that is also totally true. All perks got that one tier where both skills are just meh. And not always because they're worthless ! Sometimes, they can be pretty helpful (like yours) but just not very exciting. It's really not that bad. I guess we also need this kind of simpler skills bringing utility more than new capabilities.

-Agreed on level 25. It's both easier and harder to come up with interesting ZED-skills... Easier because you can go crazy since it's only a punctual boost, happening seemingly randomly. And harder because you need to find something that allows the player to make the most out of those small windows of cranked-up capabilities. I personally would go ever further, as in the scientist "radiates" electricity or cryo (both?) and thus any zeds coming close to him just gets zapped (maybe even zed flying due to the shock?). It would just had that little spark (ha ha) of fun and effectiveness to "Permafrost")

-Regarding weapons (in general), I get your point. And as I said in my previous message, considering every perk is now fully-stocked, it would be weird for the scientist to arrive with barely four guns. It's just that I'm a bit tired of perks becoming sorts of "Frankenstein monsters" having all kinds of crazy weapons. Like it was already a bit weird for the firebug and medic to have "this kind of gun, except it shoots FIRE/HEALING DARTS", as it allowed pretty much any kind of weapon. But now that the 'slinger got what is essentially a SMG (Glock18) and the zerk got both a shotgun (Vlad) and an assault rifle (Teslauncher), it's getting to ridiculous levels. I truly like the duality of having both cryo and electricity weapons, it's awesome. It's just having random guns that shoots ice (like the Frost Fang) that bothers me. But again : at that point in the game, having such a "one-trick-pony" of a perk would feel odd.

-You did miss the Winterbites pistols ! Didn't even notice that. It is true that they are stupidly powerful but I personally believe it would make for a great T2 gun (but the scientist should be able to only buy a single one...and maybe lower its damage a little bit, for both him and the GS). As for the Frost Fang, I just despise the seemingly random elements of it (not only the cryo damage, but also the weird runes on it). But the weapon itself isn't "bad". I'm actually quite fond of double-barreled shotgun. I'm just a bit worried that it would make the scientist too powerful considering its role.

-Okay about the EMP damage. I guess it's simply another layer of damage, kinda like in RPG when you do elemental damage on-top of your regular damage. I guess it could be a nice balancing to the poison damage of the medic... Meh. I never noticed such guns did extra damage (besides on metallic zeds like the Fleshpounds), but I guess it wouldn't hurt the Taser Pistol.

-Again, fair about the Freeze GL. It's actually rare to think of it "backwards" : as in having a lower-tiered weapon designed specifically for the end game. Usually, these are made to amplify your early firepower, and maybe as a sidearm as waves goes on. That's pretty neat. Although that makes me think that the ZED MkII should definitely be bumped to T3 then, otherwise people would probably rely on that option far more than the Freeze GL (simply because it's way more versatile and more of a real "backup weapon")

-Regarding the ZED MkII tier, speaking of which, I personally always thought short matches to be very weird and unrewarding. It just feels like everything is happening too fast and there's no real sense of progression. As soon as you start having some money : it's the last wave already. Plus it makes for very short playthroughs indeed... Unless you're playing with a full-team, you can definitely end the match in like 15 minutes. I guess a talented and cautious game designer would think about every possible criteria when designing a perk, weapons and such. But I personally believe we shouldn't waste that much time thinking about short games. They are pretty much trivial, as most people reach for the long games anyway (although I do play medium sometimes, usually to earn my daily rewards)

-For the bile thrower... Okay, maybe I was a bit harsh saying it sucked. Let's just say it was in a very weird spot.

=> You couldn't heal with it (why giving it to the medic then?)
=> You could hurt yourself pretty badly if you weren't a zerk or medic (resistance to bloat bile)
=> Quite expensive if you weren't a medic (but I guess it doesn't matter in KF2)
=> A good trash cleaner, but nearly worthless against anything past gorefasts
=> Fairly heavy for what it is

All in all, I believe it wasn't that useless... It was just pitted against far better options. And mind you, for a perk that was (and still is) crucial. So being unable to heal was a death sentence. Maybe, just maybe it would perform better in the hands of a scientist since he doesn't rely on healing. And with the proper tier system making every gun more or less the same price and the upgrade system which could make the gun better against bigger zeds... I suppose it could be reintroduced as some sort of flame/freezethrower class weapon.

-Okay, now I understand the firehose idea a little bit better ! But I'm still not convincing for quite a few reasons

=> Is it truly worth being a T5? By the look of it, I do find it a bit "gadget-like", more of a utility weapon (I know the scientist is based around that, but his later weaponry is definitely damaging too). Maybe, once again, I didn't quite understood precisely how the weapon would work.

=> How would it look in-game? Let's just say that while the models and lightning are totally decent in KF2, the effects and animations aren't that great (and I know they actually had an animator to do most of the zeds... I'm mostly talking as to when they get stunned or stumbled). I'm afraid the effects when you use the gun might look weird or even ugly.

=> A SWAT weapon due to the lore uh... That's an interesting take. Because that's also something Tripwire seems to have struggled with when considering perks. Let's look a bit deeper into it :

The firebug and medic, as I said, are less based around a role (I mean yeah, the first is a crowd control/trash cleaner while the latter is the healer, granted) and more around "effects". The firebug is all about BURNING THINGS but he has such a large arsenal that he can replace nearly any other perk. No commando? Just bring the Incendiary Rifle. No demo? That Microwave Gun will destroy Fleshpounds in no-time ! And that's something I've been disliking about the perk for quite a while now (even though it's one of my favourite). Similarly, the medic used to be a healer first and foremost, with weapons ranging from pistol to AR, yes, but all being far less effective versions of what the other perks can do. But afterwards, he ended up getting the Incision... Arguably an even better Railgun. He also got the Mine Reconstructor, certainly one of the best explosive weapon in the game...And the demo doesn't even have access to it ! And to me, that's a big problem. You can't just think of any random weapon, slap some healing and call it a medic gun. Doesn't work like that. He should still be a fragile perk, standing behind the cover of his teammates and peppering them with healing darts.

Then you got "thematic" perks, like the SWAT as you say... But also the zerk when it was first released ! He was more designed around "homemade weaponry", hence the lawnmower blade, the VLAD, the eviscerator... It is only when the Martial Artist was scrapped that he became the melee guy once more, just like he did in KF1. As for the SWAT, it also felt somewhat artificial : the medic wasn't the "SMG perk" of the team anymore, and it would feel redundant to give them to the Commando. So they created a whole perk around it. But I kinda agree : it doesn't have to be all about SMGs. In fact, it makes for a very basic, even quite boring, perk. Every gun is centered around how much dakka you can muster (more or less, with some added damage naturally). It's just a bit boring.

Basically, the problem is that we see both extremes of such ideas and why they are both problematic. The Firebug and Medic are just too damn versatile and effecient against nearly everything (the demo is sorta like that too, but thankfully all his weapons feel tailor-made for the perk). Meanwhile, the SWAT feels like a pretty boring perk to play as because he just stays into a very specific canvas. The gunslinger was like that too until he got access to the LAR and Centerfire.

All in all, I believe perks should fit "roles" more than weapon categories or elements. The firebug is more than just "the pyromaniac class". As you see in Team Fortress 2 : sure, the primary weapon of the class is a flamethrower no matter what. But his secondary can be a shotgun, or even a damn jetpack ! His melee is also rarely linked to his capability to spread fire. And I believe KF2 should do the same : think about what the perk is supposed to be doing before trying to fit such a basic premise as "he's the firestarter, let's give him an assault rifle with white phosphorus bullets". And same goes for SWAT of course : think about the CC/tank capabilities of the perk before going "he's the SMG perk, let's dump every SMG we can think of for him"


You wouldn't give a sniper rifle to the support simply because their bullets can penetrate multiple zeds right? You could however give him a slug-based shotgun to both stay in-tone AND complement its role effectively.