Say no to focus

[mrsirr]

excessive sway..

The people in this game are ridiculously calm and can hold a rifle steadier while standing in a combat situation almost as steady as I hold one laying down without people shooting at me at my friends dying 20 feet away from me. I really would appreciate a little more sway.

 

[Singami]

The problem with sway in gaming is that it's not portrayed correctly. I don't know how about you, but I'm going to say how I feel the "sway".

One thing is that every time you press RMB, you immediately snap into perfect sight adjustment. That is just silly. Depending on the skill of the shooter and his mental/physical condition (and running 200m without stopping WILL hurt your condition), it takes a little while to adjust. You also pretty much have to adjust after every shot, since your gun just kicked the hell out of you. It's not a huge amount of time, but it is a fraction of a second nonetheless.

Second of all, I don't know how "sway" feels to you, but for me, it's not my gun sliding slightly across the air, doing eights and whatnot. I'd call it more of a "smooth shake", the sights move slowly in a straight line, rather than in a curved fashion. Maybe it's just me being a newbie to this (and with quite weak hands), I'd love to hear other people's experience with this.

 

[Fishsticks]

The problem with sway in gaming is that it's not portrayed correctly. I don't know how about you, but I'm going to say how I feel the "sway".

One thing is that every time you press RMB, you immediately snap into perfect sight adjustment. That is just silly. Depending on the skill of the shooter and his mental/physical condition (and running 200m without stopping WILL hurt your condition), it takes a little while to adjust. You also pretty much have to adjust after every shot, since your gun just kicked the hell out of you. It's not a huge amount of time, but it is a fraction of a second nonetheless.

Second of all, I don't know how "sway" feels to you, but for me, it's not my gun sliding slightly across the air, doing eights and whatnot. I'd call it more of a "smooth shake", the sights move slowly in a straight line, rather than in a curved fashion. Maybe it's just me being a newbie to this (and with quite weak hands), I'd love to hear other people's experience with this.

SKIP to 2:10s

This is how iron sights behave in the real world. Of course there would be slightly less sight misalignment and more steadiness with a rifle and/or firing from a supported position.


The Side Arms: How to Double Tap - YouTube

 

[mrsirr]

One thing is that every time you press RMB, you immediately snap into perfect sight adjustment. That is just silly. Depending on the skill of the shooter and his mental/physical condition (and running 200m without stopping WILL hurt your condition), it takes a little while to adjust. You also pretty much have to adjust after every shot, since your gun just kicked the hell out of you. It's not a huge amount of time, but it is a fraction of a second nonetheless.

Second of all, I don't know how "sway" feels to you, but for me, it's not my gun sliding slightly across the air, doing eights and whatnot. I'd call it more of a "smooth shake", the sights move slowly in a straight line, rather than in a curved fashion. Maybe it's just me being a newbie to this (and with quite weak hands), I'd love to hear other people's experience with this.

Yeah I agree with that first part, although being trained with a weapon will allow you to be better about that kind of thing.

As for the second part, it seems to me that sway is just from holding up a relatively heavy object and trying to keep it completely still.
What you are describing strikes me as kindof odd. I'm definitely no expert on the sort of thing, but it sounds to me like maybe an issue of breathing or grip.
Also you said you have weak hands and above you said "since your gun just kicked the hell out of you."
You aren't by any chance, like, kinda small framed are you?
I mean no offense or anything. It's just that could definitely affect how you shoot, and I think the soldiers in RO are supposed to be the kind of guys that eat tires for breakfast and all that stuff.

 

[Singami]

@mrsirr
No, I'm not a soldier type at all and that's why I wanted to know more opinions and experiences. I mean, the sight aligment is a sure thing - while a slight mistake might not affect CQC performance, it will mess up your aim on +100 meters shots. And to align you pretty much need to stand perfectly still, which is more or less pronounced by the focus mechanic, even though it need to go.
A fix to that would be to add a little "cooldown" on movement, based on your sprint bar, in which your shots aren't perfectly aligned. I have nothing against "sniping", but if the enemy allows you to stand there for a couple of seconds lining up your shot, without any suppress, they kind of deserve to get killed.

 

[mrsirr]

I feel like there's something like that in classic.
Or mayhaps that's just for sprinting.
Peeps keep suggesting classic mode things but they won't play classic D:

 

[Proud_God]

There is no sights misalignment in Classic. I'd like to see some.

 

[BlueMind]

Personally, I'm not against the focus because IRL we perceive better at long range than ingame (except for myopic who broke their glasses).
IRL, I'm a shooter with the swiss assault rifle at 300 m. I take around 1 to 2 secondes before shooting with a good sight (alignment) on the target bellow and I can easily hit the 3 and often the 4. But... I'm quit, lying down, not cold, not out of breath... In very good condition.

Breath:
The breath is for me the most important condition, without a good control you can't hit what you want at this distance. So, after a furious run, comptetely out of breath, it is virtually impossible to aim correctly before you stop breathing. In some cases, it's really hard ! And you need to wait a little or you can only stop your breath during 1 to 2 sec (for me IRL it's the time I need to aim correctly so I have great difficulty to fire correctly).

>My solution ingame: when out of breath, only a short time focus and stop breathing or waiting 5 to 10 sec before we can stop breathing for the same time.

Alignment (good sight):
Yes, a good trained soldier can fire quickly with a relative good sight. I fire at 300 m and ingame, the most of the case, I fire from 50 to 150 m when it isn't CQC. So, another yes, it's easy to hit someone at this "short" distance compared with 300 m. But... yes, always but... I'm not precise than ingame because my alignment isn't the same betwen each shoot if I don't take time to aim correctly (relative what I saied, at this range I take the half of time to aim so 1/2 to 1 sec). But, with all my goodwill... my alignment isn't precise than ingame. And, when I fire IRL, I'm not afraid, I'm always in good condition. It's sure with fear, excitement on the battle, it's a different story.

>My first solution ingame: we need to align when we hit the focus key, to obtain a good sight like in real.
>My second solution ingame (but not possible): we need to align with a TrackIR or Freetrack system (impossible because there is so less players with that)

Yes, it's a little to easy ingame to kill someone like we do but it isn't a problem for me, it's still a game.
So for me, focus yes because often it help me to be sure if is an ennemy or not... but with the conditions described above, it would be for me a dream.

PS: sorry for my bad english (written quickly)

 

[dibbler67]

This could be implemented by applying the weapon lag functionality already in game to the weapon's position as it sways. That's something I'm experimenting with at the moment.

 

[mrsirr]

Oh yeah something I totally forgot to mention earlier.
When you're on the field of combat, even if no one is shooting directly at you, you're going to be more shaky than normal. I doubt veteran soldiers become immune to adrenaline.

 

[Singami]

This could be implemented by applying the weapon lag functionality already in game to the weapon's position as it sways. That's something I'm experimenting with at the moment.

You mean sight alignment?
If you're at it, could you rework the focus function to actual breath holding? That implies - slowly and slightly increasing zoom, increased sight alignment time and it only last a couple of seconds before you have to release.
I mean, this could be a pretty big addition to Immersion Mutator, but I don't know how much is possible in the existing engine.

 

[LionbI4]

How accurate you should be and how passive or aggressive you should be should be left to you, the player.... Your experience and your personality.

Why?

You are always 100% accurate - your rifle ingame is always aligned. This is not the case in real life.
Actually, it is big mistake to make the game more realistic in a way it hurts gameplay.
Making zoom key just to simulate real human vision is a game producer mistake.
First - you have to ask, if its fun and if game is ready for it.
Making all maps, where you usually shoot at < 200m and adding zoom button is not fun.
Because in result, many positions are pointless - you are dead in a few seconds after you appear in a position.
Very good example is Iwo Jima - bunker windows. Not to mention very bad design of bunkers - everyone can see your head from any range.

But now imagine - developers add a map, where you can effectively shot at ~500-700m. Without zoom key - only snipers and machine gunners can try to shot. With zoom key - everyone is able to shot someone.
And it is still a question - is it fun, when everyone can easily shot you from 500m?

 

[Kleist]

No it

 

[BlueMind]

...Maybe zoom is in the game to simulate realism... but it destroy my realism feeling, too.
Eyes aren

 

[Kleist]

And having zooming eyes isn

 

[BlueMind]

lol... maybe like me, you don't understand me well

Zoom for me isn't for a good sight, only to see better, like in real. It's not logical to can't see well at 150m ingame while IRL I can see at this distance.
For me, the better thing is to have a real FOV, not like ingame. More configurable than yet depending on the size of your screen because like you said, a player with a 27" screen will see better than another with only a 17", so that is unfair for me.

Don't need this kind of monitors (too many expensive I think)... mines are fine too

 

[RoastinGhost]

I don't think adding an alignment feature is the most efficient way of handling aiming being too easy.
However, it can be approximated without having to add new animations-
Currently, the guns aim right to the center of the screen when irons sights are activated.

What if the guns pointed to where they had been pointing in freeaim, but with a great deal of randomness?

This would force players to take a little longer to adjust their aim, making snap shots at range more difficult.


Along with, like I said, more sway, zoom while moving, no 'hold breath' feature.

 

[Proud_God]

Currently, the guns aim right to the center of the screen when irons sights are activated.

What if the guns pointed to where they had been pointing in freeaim, but with a great deal of randomness?

This has been suggested many times, and I'd like to test this out in game (not sure yet how it would play out).

 

[Singami]

What if the guns pointed to where they had been pointing in freeaim, but with a great deal of randomness?

That's awful. While a soldier won't perfectly align his sights , he will easily point the gun in the chosen direction. Do it yourself, take a stick and point it like a gun at a target, you won't start with it being extremely off target and even if you will, the sole movement of "aiming" will bring it on target.
Forcing the player to aim from a random position is not realistic, nor it sounds fun. The game is already about pointing and shooting at things and checks these skills - the trick is to make the aiming harder through new features and "skillchecks" (dealing with sway, dealing with alignment, managing stamina), rather than making the existing mechanics more cumbersome and annoying.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

And having zooming eyes isn