Sappers

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Hi all. Today's argument is about RO2 sappers. You all know that in RO1 if you want to kill a tank, you have to throw the sap charge randomly around the tank, and then the explosion will damage/kill it, and you also know that this isn't very realistic, not for RO2 at least.

So, now that the vehicles damage system is super-realistic and no more based on the RO1's "HP system", how do saps work? Must we place them on the vehicles trying to place them in the best point to cause the more damage possible? And will it be calculated what happens afterwards the explosions? (what it's damaged, the spalling etc)

Just to know if also the sap charges evolved with the whole game, thank you in advance

 

[Mormegil]

Well, since sapers weren't really anti-tank soldiers, it's possible the satchel charges won't be useful against tanks. They're really demolition charges anyway.

 

[213]

place them on the ground and wait for a tank to roll over.

 

[Akim213]

Probably would be able to do some serious damage to a tank if you managed to attach one onto the treads and what not, moving parts and explosives don't work to well together I've been told. :IS2:

But if it does not do much damage hopefully people will tell each other so we don't get sappers trying to sneak up to tanks for no return on that effort after day 1.

 

[Das Bose]

I expect a satchel would be effective if you could jam it in between the turret and the hull, or for blowing a track off, otherwise not so good

 

[SCandChives]

Maybe if you placed the satchel on the engine deck the explosion would damage the engine? On that note, Molotovs?

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

When used as an anti-tank weapon, charges were sufficient to severely damage the tracks. 4 kg (8.8 lb) charges were enough to destroy medium tanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satchel_charge

It was quickly noted that a 1 - 2 kg charge was sufficient for severing the track of a tank, if blown under or next to the track.
A satchel charge with 6 kg of explosives, built around a stick hand grenade, was powerful enough to knock out any tank met in the war, if it exploded on top the tank (usually on the rear deck of a tank).
In a notice, issued on February 1940, to the ground troops by the Chief of Engineering section of the Finnish General HQ, the effectiveness of various explosive charges was reported to be as follows:
​

• 2 kg was sufficient to destroy vehicles with the weight of around 6 tons
  (FAI, BA-3, BA-6, BA-10, T-37, T-38)
• 3 kg was sufficient to destroy vehicles with the weight of around 12 tons
  (T-26, BT-2, BT-7)
• 4 kg was sufficient to destroy vehicles with the weight of around 30 tons
  (T-28)

http://www.winterwar.com/Weapons/FinAT/FINantitank2.htm#kasap


And also, for what i know, in WWII were used specific anti-tank explosive charges (but i have no idea if they're ingame actually)

Something like that

YouTube - Axis Sapper Guide

This isn't 100% realistic (there are also some bugs and strangenesses) but basically this is what i mean. In this case, in the video, the tanks explode because the charges are placed in specific weak spots where the penetration causes a certain destruction of the vehicles.


Sorry TWI, i know that i post BGE often, but i dunno what else to post as a "video example"

 

[Mormegil]

I think we can agree a satchel wouldn't blow up a tank like we see in ROOST. Treads, sure, maybe an engine fire, but not insta-kill from meters away.

As long as it's realstically(er) modeled, I'm sure it'll be fine.

 

[u-s-e-r]

This done realistically would be great.

 

[EvilHobo]

Would be cool if we could use magnetic mines or something like the Hafthohlladung

 

[Grobut]

In Ost, i think the Satchels where kinda forced into an all-purpose role, for the simple reason that they where really the only explosives Ost had aside from the standard hand grenades.

And no, it wasen't realistic for a satchel charge to blow up a tank the way it did, but then, neither would it have been realistic to have no anti-tank weapons to use aside from the faust and PTRD.

I can't help thinking that anti-tank explosives where something TWI wanted for the game, but time and budget constraints ment it didn't get done, other things where more important (even post release, more tanks, guns and maps where in higher demand), and so, the Satchel ended up getting shoehorned into the role just to provide that gameplay posibillity, even if it wasen't ideal.


But if you look at the HoS facts thread, we should be getting more explosives in HoS, including anti-tank ones, so the satchel might very well get an overhaul, and nolonger be a tank slayer in HoS.

 

[salti]

There is even accounts of yank inf knocking out isolated tanks with phosphorus grenades.