Running while aiming

[Dwin]

Okay, I profess that I have always hated slowing down when bringing up iron sights in shooters. Aiming your weapon does not magically make you slow to a walk, and it's one of those things that has always made RO movement feel sluggish.

Instead, bringing up your sights should NOT automatically change your speed, but trying to aim your weapon while running would incur a significant sway penalty, such that it would be very difficult to hit anything that isn't very close to you.

YouTube - US Army CQB Training

 

[Lucan946]

Okay, I profess that I have always hated slowing down when bringing up iron sights in shooters. Aiming your weapon does not magically make you slow to a walk, and it's one of those things that has always made RO movement feel sluggish.

Instead, bringing up your sights should NOT automatically change your speed, but trying to aim your weapon while running would incur a significant sway penalty, such that it would be very difficult to hit anything that isn't very close to you.

That's not really logical. Try jogging around whilst trying to look down the iron sights of a gun. You really can't.

 

[213]

illogical, not plausible, unrealistic=probably won't happen. sorry. call of duty might be more up to your speed, so to speak.

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

I see where he is getting at. I wouldn't shoot it down just yet.

I think the speed should be slowed down by default when sighting in, but if you want to maybe jog/speed-walk (one or the other), one should have to hold down the sprint button. Once sped up, you should have a SEVERE sway penalty. Anyone who has even fondled with a weapon could see how bad the sway really is.

I think a feature like this should be implemented, but not like Call of Duty's, where you are 100% stable and have no sway or bouncing.

 

[SolitarioSoldat]

if you run at full speed in RL and try to raise your aiming sight you will for sure slow down a lot!!! now you can sort of run and raise your aimsight in RL but it will be like running with baby steps short running and your aimsight will be bouncing from where you aim all the way to China....In order to do this game will have to have 2 different speeds when you run,it dont make sence iven if you aim run and sort of slow down you still wont hit jack cause of the sway going everywhere.....

Now try running full speed and aim,boy will that be an experience....now aiming and fast walking while tucked down a little is a different story,but still short steps and most likely if reality is implemented like this in RO2 you will have lots of sway anyways.

Plus I doubt this sort of combat training was used back in WW2,todays new modern army yes when fighting CQC.

 

[SolitarioSoldat]

I see where he is getting at. I wouldn't shoot it down just yet.

I think the speed should be slowed down by default when sighting in, but if you want to maybe jog/speed-walk (one or the other), one should have to hold down the sprint button. Once sped up, you should have a SEVERE sway penalty. Anyone who has even fondled with a weapon could see how bad the sway really is.

I think a feature like this should be implemented, but not like Call of Duty's, where you are 100% stable and have no sway or bouncing.

I played COD since vCOD to CODWAW,never bought MW2 or BO,but as far as I know COD never had an option to run and raise up your aimsight,you would of automatically stop the running when raising the aimsight...You could of walk,or crouch-walk while in aimsight but there was no sway when doing that,no RL implemented and dont get me started on jump-aim shoot feature that all started with COD2,thats why I always had respect for the one and only true COD game vCOD and UO,they were never as close to RL aspect like ROOST,but was a good 50% game with RL in mind,shame I dont know what went wrong with COD devs? what they were thinking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dwin]

illogical, not plausible, unrealistic=probably won't happen. sorry. call of duty might be more up to your speed, so to speak.

Are you telling me it's illogical, implausible, and unrealistic to be able to run (which is really just jogging in RO) with your weapon shouldered? I direct your attention to this video (0:45).

YouTube - US Army CQB Training



Obviously, the player would incur a significant amount of sway (however much is realistic) making it difficult to actually hit the target while running. But there's absolutely no reason why I shouldn't be able to do this if I wanted to, i.e., in situations where I want to keep my weapon ready to fire while still moving quickly.

It also fits in with TW's philosophy for RO2 that if it's easy to do in real life, it should be easy to do in real life. Well it's pretty easy to run with your weapon shouldered in real life, so it should be at least possible to do in game.

 

[SolitarioSoldat]

its still not running but more like fast walking in short steps

 

[Game-Enthousiast]

I also think this should not be implemented the way you suggested it in your first post. In my experience a.) the faster you move the less you will actually hit, if anything at all(you mentioned that but still just have to point it out again) and apart from that you might even trip over something on the floor that you did not pay attention to because you were moving looking down your sights.
b.) WW2 weapons were much heavier and way less userfriendly/ergonomic etc etc. than modern assault rifles.
c.) Drills have changed a lot and have not! Check out some manuals on squad tactics from back then or even up to now. You got the cover group and movement group exchanging their roles all the time in order to advance towards an enemy. (COVERING FIRE .....)
On the other hand, reflexive shooting and even shooting stances have only lately changed due to new and as said above more userfriendly hardware. Meaning even if you compare rifles from the 50-60-70ties their recoil would hardy enable you to shoot properly while moving if at all, unless you want to hurt yourself or waste ammo. Below i got a little comparison of two "modern" assault rifle and two main German WW2 rifles/mps.
d.) Finally, even sights have changed. Getting your K98 sights properly aligned is much more time consuming and difficult than looking through your average commando holo sight or even light reflective dot sight. Nothing which was available between 39-45. :IS2: So moving quick and shooting/aiming properly.. NO

G36:
G36: 3.63 kg (8 lb)
G36V: 3.33 kg (7.3 lb)
G36K: 3.30 kg (7.3 lb)
G36KV: 3.0 kg (6.6 lb)
G36C: 2.82 kg (6.2 lb)

M4: Weight 5.9 lb (2.7 kg) empty
6.9 lb (3.1 kg) with 30 rounds Length 33 in (838 mm) (stock extended)
29.75 in (756 mm) (stock retracted)

Mp40: Weight 4 kg (8.82 lb) Length 833 mm (32.8 in) stock extended / 630 mm (24.8 in) stock folded

K98: Weight 3.7 kg (8.2 lb) - 4.1 kg (9.0 lb) Length 1,110 mm (43.70 in)

 

[Oldih]

Getting your K98 sights properly aligned is much more time consuming and difficult than looking through your average commando holo sight or even light reflective dot sight. Nothing which was available between 39-45.

And in some cases maintaining shouldered posture for extended period of times is guaranteed to get your back\arms killed figuratively speaking. PPSh with drum tends to be pretty nose heavy if you're not used to 'balance' it yourself based on how you're holding it.

 

[Dwin]

Finally, even sights have changed. Getting your K98 sights properly aligned is much more time consuming and difficult than looking through your average commando holo sight or even light reflective dot sight. Nothing which was available between 39-45. :IS2: So moving quick and shooting/aiming properly.. NO

I never said anything about being able to shoot properly. In fact I explicitly said you wouldn't be able to. I simply said that you should be able to shoulder your weapon while moving quickly, because it is physically possible to do in real life. You would definitely not have your sights aligned while doing this.

You make valid points, all which support the idea that there should be realistic limits to your actions. If it is physically possible to run with your weapon shouldered, then it should be possible in game, subject to realistic restrictions. I would not expect the average person would be able to run with an MG42 shouldered, but it would be a lot easier with an MP40. If it's easy to do in real life, it should be easy to do in game. If it's difficult to do in real life, then it should be difficult, not impossible, to do in game.game.

 

[Dwin]

its still not running but more like fast walking in short steps

Please, don't be ridiculous. That is clearly running (at 0:45) with large steps. Besides, even in RO, you don't actually run, you jog.

 

[Reise]

Even walking and trying to shoot accurately is hard as hell.

No sense in being able to IS while sprinting, remember soldiers in RO already move at a jog where IS is possible anytime.

If you're talking about letting us keep moving at that speed in IS, well I can't see why not. We should still have a walk button so we can use that if we want less sway.

Personally I think making you walk just does what most people would do anyway. Very few people in RO aim and shoot while walking as it is. It's just not practical.

 

[Game-Enthousiast]

So you would want to make this a mp40 specific feature? I doubt the devs will do that. Even then still I think the way it was implemented in RO moving slowly while looking down the sights was the best solution...Now they even included breathing so...running breathing aiming shooting.. I doubt it

 

[LemoN]

Dwin, RO doesn't have holo or red-dot sights.

The guys in your video are looking down the weapon, they don't have any ironsights up. The only way of actually aiming down your sights while walking fast is having holo-sights.

This is where shouldering your weapon comes in (may I draw your attention to ArmA?), and it would be nice to have a fourth stance, ie. hipped (fast), shouldered (medium), sighted (slow), controlled breathing (still).

Now I don't exactly know how the doctrine back then was for keeping a weapon shouldered in a modern way. I don't think it was taught at all.

 

[Dwin]

Even walking and trying to shoot accurately is hard as hell.

No sense in being able to IS while sprinting, remember soldiers in RO already move at a jog where IS is possible anytime.

If you're talking about letting us keep moving at that speed in IS, well I can't see why not. We should still have a walk button so we can use that if we want less sway.

Yes, I mean being able to move at regular speed while in IS, not sprinting of course.

Personally I think making you walk just does what most people would do anyway. Very few people in RO aim and shoot while walking as it is. It's just not practical.

True, and shooting while running (jogging) would be even less practical. But it's not about the ability to shoot while running, it's about giving players realistic freedom of movement. If I want to be able to move quickly across the street while keeping my weapon shouldered as to be ready for a firefight, I should have that option if it is physically possible in real life.

 

[Dwin]

So you would want to make this a mp40 specific feature? I doubt the devs will do that. Even then still I think the way it was implemented in RO moving slowly while looking down the sights was the best solution...Now they even included breathing so...running breathing aiming shooting.. I doubt it

Where did you get the idea that it should be an MP40 specific feature? I used the MP40 just as an example. It should be a feature for any weapon for which it is physically possible to run while shouldering.

And again, this isn't about the ability to shoot while running. Although it should be possible, it wouldn't be effective. It's about realistic freedom of movement.

 

[Dwin]

Dwin, RO doesn't have holo or red-dot sights.

The guys in your video are looking down the weapon, they don't have any ironsights up. The only way of actually aiming down your sights while walking fast is having holo-sights.

Once again, I would not expect a person to be able to keep their sights aligned while doing this. But the option should be there to have your gun "up" while running.

 

[LemoN]

Once again, I would not expect a person to be able to keep their sights aligned while doing this. But the option should be there to have your gun "up" while running.

In that case... NO.

I'm pretty much 100% sure it was not taught back then (anybody care to jump in here?), and the effects on gameplay this would have are simply abysmal.

While it may be perfectly possible IRL, IRL you also won't have 64 people run around like headless chickens with their weapons shouldered and having near perfect accuracy.

Because this is exactly what it's going to result in. By implementing this feature your effectively remove most negative effects of free-aim and recoil (and in addition give the player a crosshair like indicator where his bullets are most likely going to hit) and will turn weapons like the PPSH in ultra shoulder-sticks of doom that will have players run around at light-speed and shooting from their shoulder.

Implementing something physically possible and (for today's military) realistic does not mean this feature is going to increase the realism of the game.

TWI could go ahead and implement cows as cover.
A US unit actually used cows found in a nearby barn to use as cover to flank a German MG nest. By itself the feature is 100% realistic. Cows do offer physical protection from bullets, offer visual protection and you can easily herd a couple of cows into the firing line of a machine gun. Now think about the effects this feature has on game-play.

64 players herding cows.

 

[Game-Enthousiast]

I know you did not ask specifically for the mp 40 but what other weapons maybe apart from pistols would be light enough and so on and so forth? I just do not think it is a feature that despite a theoretical possibilty of perfoming something like this in real life should be implemented. Especially because of the realism aspect. You just dont run like that and waste ammo...