Did anyone notice on bigger maps all players have to do is take out there knives, run for a minute, then turn around and shoot the zombies chasing them? This is very boring to watch, especially when used against fleshpounds since it takes so long for them to die. It makes the whole game a lot less challenging and a lot less scary since you know to get out of any situation all you have to do is run for a while then turn around and kill them. I think to correct this a stamina system should be added. Anyone agree? Even those fast meatcleaving zombies can be outrun using this technique.
Run away, shoot. Run, away, shoot.
- Thread starter PistolPete
- Start date
I couldnt agree more! i would much rather have a run button and a stamina bar, which when depleted makes you walk slower than normal until it fills up again similair to red orchestra. this would also be good as it would give us an excuse to request they let us drop the 9mm pistol and knife/sell them , the only reason both must be kept ATM is because the knife=run and 9mm=flashlight.
this is because of the cursed arena style one room maps that people make. why do they make them? because they're easy to play and easy to make.
Deathpit final is an example of an arena map. Origins is an example of what KF is all about. (not hating on deathpit. just hating on arena maps in general)
KF is a game thats meant for close quarters labyrinth style map designs. not big open areas where you can see the enemy come at you from miles away. adding a stamina bar will break more things then it will fix. it's just up to admins to keep these stupid arena style maps off their servers if they want to give people a REAL killing floor experience.
Deathpit final is an example of an arena map. Origins is an example of what KF is all about. (not hating on deathpit. just hating on arena maps in general)
KF is a game thats meant for close quarters labyrinth style map designs. not big open areas where you can see the enemy come at you from miles away. adding a stamina bar will break more things then it will fix. it's just up to admins to keep these stupid arena style maps off their servers if they want to give people a REAL killing floor experience.
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I'm with omarfw, assuming he is basically saying that it is fine the way it is, and the problem lies with the maps.
Still, even a couple of the official maps (westlondon, farm) have that boring style run, shoot, run, shoot ways to beat them.
Generally speaking in the games defense, you can still have problems with crawlers, stalkers and whatever else sneaking up on you as you flee the horde, or turn to shoot them. Its not like you can get out of any situation with this play style. But I do like how, with enough skill and endurance, it is possible to complete a wave after your friends are dead, and it is exciting to accomplish. I would be very frustrated if I found myself dying because I "ran out of stamina".
I am personally adressing this issue with 2 planned close quarter 'mansion' maps. The first one is nearly done and the second will be a couple of months away. Not that I'm the only person addressing the issue - there are LOTS of good close quarters maps already, you just have to weed out the junk. IMO any map that was created without close quarters gameplay as a major design consideration, will turn out to be BORING, regardless of the skill of the mapper, or how beautiful and detailed the map looks.
Still, even a couple of the official maps (westlondon, farm) have that boring style run, shoot, run, shoot ways to beat them.
Generally speaking in the games defense, you can still have problems with crawlers, stalkers and whatever else sneaking up on you as you flee the horde, or turn to shoot them. Its not like you can get out of any situation with this play style. But I do like how, with enough skill and endurance, it is possible to complete a wave after your friends are dead, and it is exciting to accomplish. I would be very frustrated if I found myself dying because I "ran out of stamina".
I am personally adressing this issue with 2 planned close quarter 'mansion' maps. The first one is nearly done and the second will be a couple of months away. Not that I'm the only person addressing the issue - there are LOTS of good close quarters maps already, you just have to weed out the junk. IMO any map that was created without close quarters gameplay as a major design consideration, will turn out to be BORING, regardless of the skill of the mapper, or how beautiful and detailed the map looks.
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What the hell, I kill fleshpounds slow and I get called boring, I kill it in one hit and I get called noob
WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME?!
Here are the things that really should be applied to Killing Floor:
1) Increase the Limit of Simultaneous Enemies (click the link for discussion)
2) Stamina (click the link for discussion)
I use personally MaxZombiesOnce value as 200 and it alone fixes lots of things. Stamina cannot be applied via console so that's something I am really waiting.
1) Increase the Limit of Simultaneous Enemies (click the link for discussion)
2) Stamina (click the link for discussion)
I use personally MaxZombiesOnce value as 200 and it alone fixes lots of things. Stamina cannot be applied via console so that's something I am really waiting.
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Another problem with Killing Floor in general is that there's no benefit to holding any ground in the face of overwhelming odds. Nor is there any way that the game could HELP you hold it (Barricades, autoguns, traps, ect) aside from welding a few doors.
Objectives, such as holding a building for a certain period of time, waiting in a spot for air-dropped supplies, ect, would add reason to "Hold your ground" instead of making it foolish...
Objectives, such as holding a building for a certain period of time, waiting in a spot for air-dropped supplies, ect, would add reason to "Hold your ground" instead of making it foolish...
this sounds like a pretty good idea for some objectives-based gameplay
holding ground for extra supplies or some kind of xp bonus would be a cool concept, or a deliver-the-flag type objective too - and add a little much-needed freshness to KF
3 of the official maps allow easy run & shoot strategy.
I want you to die. Seriously.
In L4D when there is only one player standing, things usually end very quickly. In Killing Floor, when they is one player left, if he has a minimum of skills, he can lead the pack of specimens around and shoot them for half an hour while other players wait (and often leave the server).
In fact, on most open maps, the game is easier if you are alone.
The problem has 4 main causes:
-Map design.
-Wolfenstein 3D enemy AI.
-Unlimited self-healing.
-Unlimited supply on the map.
Solutions:
-Obviously, smaller maps like Office and the Lab.
-Improved AI for the fastest specimen that makes them spread and try to flank/surround the players.
- Limited healings for everyone except the medic, who can heal others indefinitely, but not himself.
- Supplies disappear from the map when only one player is left.
Agree with 2/4 points.
But, the medic healing power should be infinitive, in both way. If a doctor can't effectively heal himself, I'll never trust my life in his hand. Remove the running bonus, that should be enough.
I believe that supplies isn't infinitive. Eventually, you'll run out of those ammo box, which is really few from the beginning. Choice is, come back with a melee weapon or running over and over again.
However, it's my opinion that every game has exploit, and those so-called bug. It's your will to commit doing those (exploit map, AI, etc.) If you really enjoy playing it, you'll know what to do
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Kinda, but I'd mean more like "If you hold in x area for 2 minutes, a supply drop will fall with armor/weapons/ammo for everyone. If you leave the area, the drop will abort". Not like the "crescendo" crap from L4D, where the area is pre-stocked with a crapton of ammo and such...
The ammo is FAR from unlimited, as well. On Hard/Suicidal, you'll be lucky if 1 ammo box spawns every 5 minutes! Makes it near-impossible to survive alone for long once the ammo-shortage takes hold!
Origins as in my map KF-Origins? hihi, ive been working alot on it for the competition but didnt released it yet. Lots and lots of content added like the top floor being broken so u have to walk over a thin wooden plank and not to fall off and die. Also that room with lots of yellow liquids, added lava beneath it and u can actually fall in and die if u dont watch out. And many more but to much to post.
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Variety is the spice of life! I think it's good that there are plenty of types of maps, if it was ALL close quarters maps it would get pretty boring.
Having said that, no matter what type of map it is, it needs to be designed well with correct zombie spawns to keep it interesting.
Having said that, no matter what type of map it is, it needs to be designed well with correct zombie spawns to keep it interesting.
Uhhh...have you played the official maps? You know, the ones like Farm, Manor and WestLondon?
Calm down, go play those maps then come back and post about your experiences afterwards.
100% agree. Something needs to be done, because this kiting everything makes the game boring.
Yes, your map. It's great. Kiting doesn't help. Planning escapes, working with your team, and knowing when/where to move make the difference on it. Enemies coming at you from every angle, when you're running out of ammo and running out of room to move...THAT is what Survival Horror is about...not about running around a parking lot gunning down everything in sight.
I didn't like the early versions because it was TOO enclosed, but the later revisions on it made it into an awesome map. I really suggest that you refine it a bit and submit it to Tripwire's $20,00 map contest. It's a shoe-in to win at least SOMETHING!
As much as I love Farm, Manor, and West London, they are stupidly easy to kite everything on. And kiting works best when everyone is spread out, which decreases the "co-op" aspect of the game even more...
I think I'm one of the only folks that, if my entire team wipes and it's not even halfway through the wave, will consider it a 'Total Wipeout' and suicide with a nade. I don't find too much entertainment in killing 150+ specimens on my own when I KNOW everyone else is waiting impatiently to play. Especially when the only way I can get them all (Kiting) is incredibly time-consuming and boring to watch. However, if it's only 60 or so specimens left, I'm going to town on 'em!
Recently, as a medic, I had to solo most of a wave of enemies because nobody would heal me when I was near death, so I had to bail out of a zone to heal myself ( ~20 or so health left, sirens in the zone ) and everyone else promptly died and blamed me for not healing them when they needed it.
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I think that, currently, the only way to survive on later waves is to kite. It rarely fails on a pub server, to get to wave six or seven and be with a small group of people keeping them alive through the earlier waves and the fleshpound appears. The normal response from a great deal of players is the standard 'oh hai mistur flashpund, i raeg u nao' and they kill half the players on the server when it proceeded to wreck the faces of the people.
It pretty much turns into two scenarios, for the most part - everyone spams nades and hunting shotgun at him and he goes splat, or a few people attempt to lead it on and deal damage over time to him.
The second one doesn't work when someone goes 'oh hai u nead halp i kill him 4 u' and rages him while he's nearly on top of you. As a level 3 medic, I can barely outrun him, and that depends entirely on me getting out of there while he starts his rage animation.
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Before we are able to fix kiting, we need a general three things.
1) A more reliable way to kill a fleshpound / scrake as all perks that doesn't involve hit and run tactics, having everyone unload on it at once, or waiting for that special spot to instantly kill them in some cases.
2) AI that doesn't come at you nearly single file ( which really only encourages kiting )
3) AI that prefers not to mob and will instead find an alternate path if it's blocked by other enemies if possible ( eg, when I'm being mobbed by a bunch of clots, the outer edge sits there like a lemon while the ones inside play patty cake with me - those outer ones should either try to get around to the other side of me if they can, or find other targets ).
Just my ideas and thoughts.