Ruger Blackhawk .45

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Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
I would like to suggest a low price and low weight pistol. I was thinking a .45 or a .38, something along those lines. Basically making it stronger than a 9mm but weaker than the hand cannon. Have it cost around 150-180 with cheap ammo or even lower to 100 or so just to make it more attractive than the hand cannon. You could give sharpshooter bonus to this pistol.

Basically have it be a hyper accurate single action pistol. The alternate fire is held down to fan the hammer causing it to unload all 6 rounds at a %50 faster rate.

This pistol would not be dual-wieldable and requires only a single slot or two for weight purposes. Making it an excellent backup weapon with more power than a 9mm and higher accuracy than a hand cannon.

The single action as opposed to double action simply for the reason of the superior accuracy. Single action usually reduces the trigger pull range and overall motion of the gun in the seconds before firing allowing you to perform extremely accurate shots using the iron sights or a scope. ( based upon double actions requiring more trigger pull distance increasing the chances of you shaking the gun with minor muscle strain causing slight adjustments to your aim). The double action itself also moves the gun very slightly as the mechanism is self cocking the hammer (and in the case of revolvers it is chambering the next round to be fired) before the shot which is also a very slight reduction in accuracy. I know many double action revolvers can just prime the hammer as well but I figured we did not want to get into a seperate button to cock the hammer. I also figured this would make it stand out more than just another revolver clone.

I figured this would fit the sharpshooter the most as he is a "sharp shooter" so he probably takes shooting very seriously lol

I was thinking a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt

stainless-45.jpg
iron-sights.jpg

It is supposed to be a backup for longer range shooting than the 9mm. You would not be carrying a lot of ammo seeing as you reload it in a per cartridge way similar to the lever action and the shotguns. So you would only be carrying maybe 5 total reloads as you would be using this gun for long range headshotting of weaker enemies or more damaging headshots to a stronger enemy (if you have no room to carry a hand cannon).

I believe the iron sights on this gun are superior to those on the 9mm so it would make it easier to hit targets at long distance. The designers could also choose to add a rudimentary scope to the weapon and increase the purchasing price to compensate.



So if you think about it weight wise, 6 in the gun with 30 in reserve. Thats 36 .45 bullets with no magazine weight (since there are no magazines) so:
  • 36 x 14.9g (weight of a common .45 bullet) = 536.4 grams
The 9mm that has i think 15 magazines with 15 bullets that is 225 9mm bullets plus 15 in the gun so 240.

  • 240 x 7.45g (typical weight of a 9mm) = 1788 grams
A 15 round steel 92FS magazine weights around 430 grams.

  • 430g x 15 = 6,450 grams
  • 6450g + 1788g = 8238 grams total
I think the hand cannon can have 11 magazines in reserve with 7 (the technical limit) plus 8 in the gun so 85 bullets.

  • 85 x 19.4g (typical .50AE) = 1649 grams
The stainless steel magazine of a .50AE Desert Eagle weighs 680g.

  • 7 x 680g = 4760 grams
  • 1649g + 4760g = 6409 grams total
The totals for the guns are:

  • 1998.6g for a desert eagle with empty mag (since we already weighed the bullets that would have been in it)
  • The 92FS weighs 1400g with an empty magazine.
  • The .45 Ruger Blackhawk (the gun I used as my recommendation) empty weighs about 1200g.

So grand totals for all 3 guns with all ammunition of a full loadout:
  • 8407.6 grams Hand Cannon
  • 9638 grams 9mm
  • 1736.4 grams Ruger Blackhawk
This is basically what I was using to justify the .45 only taking up 1kg or 2 and the other pistols taking up 4kg. Obviously the kg translations to ingame kilograms is not 1:1 but it would be a fairly accurate conversion on a roughly 2:1 ratio. You forgot the buttloads of ammunition and magazines the other guns are carrying.

We could even add double the ammunition for the .45 revolver and it would still weigh FAR less than either two weapons and use up less space (no bulky magazines to carry)

I think I am underestimating the ammount of ammo you can hold with a hand cannon in game, but I am not sure.

What do you lot think?
 

Discoisntdead

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 30, 2009
332
3
0
So let me get this straight. You suggest that a SINGLE-ACTION revolver which holds six rounds, is weaker than the Desert Eagle and is slower to reload, should be added.
And I ask you. What for? In the end one would be better off with the 9mm.
 

Double_Deagle

Active member
Jul 28, 2009
234
34
28
The funny thing is, I had an idea similar to this, but with all the stats reversed.

A double-action .357 magnum (probably a Colt Python), that has more damage than the handcannon and reloads using speedloaders, with at least 56 shots.

Give it a 2kg weight, and a 2x pistol scope and you'd have a decent sniping weapon for the sharpshooter.

Yours however... I just have to agree with Disco, it seems useless compared to the current weapons.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
Yeah I guess if I saw a big post like that I just would skim too and not read it.

I SAID

because it would be more accurate and the iron sights are in fact EASIER TO USE than the 9mm. So for long distance shooting this would be more accurate and it would do more damage than the 9mm.

You can reload it 1 shot at a time if you so choose like the lever-action or any of the shotguns.

It only costs like 100-180 to purchase and only take 1 or 2 slots.

Those things would make it more attractive than the 9mm for people who cant afford or fit a hand cannon, and for people who want more accurate distance shooting than a 9mm. Also a different reloading dynamic than any of the other pistols.

You can also fan the hammer for 50% increased firing speed (which would be faster than the hand cannon or the 9mm when fanning the hammer.

So I guess all you saw was:

6 rounds
weaker than hand cannon
slower reload (in some instances)
single action

But yeah incase you skim what I just wrote as well:

one bullet at a time reloading
more accurate iron sights (easier to use) for distance shooting
1 or 2 slots
100-180 cost
secondary fire held down for 50% inrease in fire rate (or more, subject to testing) for a burst of damage


 

Double_Deagle

Active member
Jul 28, 2009
234
34
28
I don't appreciate you acting like we're idiots just because we disagree with you.

I read through the whole thing just fine, there's not that much to read, there's just a lot of extra space in certain areas, like the math (this not a bad thing, it means it's well formatted).

Now, you may personally prefer 1 shot reload, but almost everyone else prefers magazine reload as from a full empty it is much faster. On top of that, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to be able to reload a revolver like that. The common way to reload a revolver is to dump out all the spent shells and then put in new ones. To reload it one at a time would mean you'd have to get rid of the spent bullets by hand before putting in new ones, which would ultimately take MUCH longer.

I understand that it would be much easier to shoot long distance with it than the 9mm, but the somewhat better damage and slow reload would simply not be worth it. The 9mm would have slightly under 3x as much ammo per clip, and already reloads insanely fast; it's ok if you miss the first shot, just shoot again, the 9mm is one of the easiest guns to snipe with.

Low weight and low cost are hardly effective arguments when comparing it against something that weighs nothing and is free.

Another large problem with it is the ammo, why would you think 36 shots is enough? Even the LAR (which is basically a much higher damage, higher weight version of what you're suggesting) has 80 bullets, and I will sometimes find myself running out of that. 36 is not enough.

The fan for burst damage sounds like a cool idea in theory, but think about it in practice. What are you most likely to use it on? A strong enemy. Go and shoot 6 handcannon shots at a scrake and see how alive it still is. Now imagine doing even less damage. Plus, it negates this gun's strongest point, the high accuracy.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
Thats why I also put you can double the ammo or put any amount in. Or hell we could even have 80 bullets as much as play testing allows people to use.

The damage would be about equal to the LAR allowing 1 hit kills on crawlers and stalkers with the sharpshooter perk. Also if you only shoot one thing then you can quickly reload a single shot instead of reloading the entire magazine in similar respect to the LAR or shotgun.

Without the SS perk this gun is going to do far more damage than a 9mm so you do not have to neccesarily hit a crawler in the head with it to kill it. Sure you could just empty 4-5 bullets with a 9mm if you want to. (provided you are not a god of accuracy and hit crawlers in the head every time no matter what, again this is for all players not just those good at the game).

The burst damage would be enough to down a siren when you move to close range rather than slowly emptying an entire 9mm clip to drop one (if you are lucky) It also might save you versus a scrake if the rest of your team is helping you out as if you quickly dump 6 LAR comparable damage shots into a scrakes head it could be enough to put it over the edge.

Another scenario is if you join a game and no one gives you any money or a gun you could purchase an additional grenade plus this gun and some ammo for your starting 200 pounds. It would be more damaging and more forgiving than the 9mm if you had no other choice.

Also if you are buying lots of stuff and you end up with 200ish money left and you are a class with less than 4 slots of space left. You could purchase this gun and full load it to have an additional backup weapon as opposed to you 9mm. It would be more accurate over a distance and you could swap to it for a burst of damage when things get ugly then reload it at a slow point afterwards.

It is a way of having another backup weapon that allows more accurate distance shooting or short range burst damage all for under 200 pounds and only 1 - 2 weight slots.

There are instances where you could be able to get this and NOT an additional 9mm or a hand cannon. Those are the instances where you have to choose to purchase nothing as it stands in this game.

A magnum double action revolver with 2x scope would be far too good to justify 2 slots weight. It could easily be better than a hand cannon in that instance and then what would we do? Reduce the hand cannon price and weight to compensate for its reduction in usefulness?

So I understand how you say fanning is useless when you just shoot 6 hand cannon rounds (which would shoot slower than fanning the .45 and timing may be crucial if you can only survive a single hit) So depending on your loadout you might not even be able to hold a HC or you might not have the time to shoot 6 rounds.a

So there are scenarios that do not overlap with the HC and the .45.

A) Starting a round with 200 and no one gives you anything. (providing you are not rank 5 and start with a gun) even a rank 4 SS could not afford to purchase a hand cannon and this gun fully loaded with an additonal grenade. Only other choice is LAR with 40 rounds of ammo (we could say .45 would have 80 or however much you think is appropriate for additional ammunition)
B) loadouts that cannot fit the 4kg hand cannon
C) When you need very fast burst damage while a scrake is charging you and sticking a chainsaw in your face
D) theres a lull in wave and you want to shoot long distance accurately and not waste primary ammo on junk mobs such as crawlers, bloats, clots (again the iron sights are easier to use and less skilled players can not be extremely accurate over long distances with the 9mm

I am not saying this will replace some guns in usefulness. It fills the role that no other weapon currently does which is extremely low cost and 1-2 slots which you cannot fit any other weapon into.

Some people might also just like the feel of the weapon and choose to use it out of style (just might be fun and afterall the game is about having fun).

So I am sure the brutal efficiency pro players would probably not choose to have it in their loadout. But lets face it if you want brutal efficiency just have your whole team hop into berzerker and easier hack the patriarch down on suicidal.
 

Bio666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 10, 2009
788
2
0
[...]
A double-action .357 magnum (probably a Colt Python), that has more damage than the handcannon and reloads using speedloaders, with at least 56 shots.

Give it a 2kg weight, and a 2x pistol scope and you'd have a decent sniping weapon for the sharpshooter.
[...]

Higher powered scope, high recoil, slow fire rate. Perfect. Highly recomended for the after-next DLC. (the next one should be the M-32 or muzzle-fire grenade launcher and a few more zeds)

Who in favor of naming it "the ambassador" ?

Who in favor of naming it "Blue rose" ?
 

Nanostrike

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
2,025
250
0
It just doesn't fit. Not going into the various reasons, as there are dozens of similar topics about it. Try searching before you create a topic requesting a gun...

And IMO, there are a lot of things that need to be looked at/added before another pistol, such as some sort of bolt-action scoped rifle, a new Firebug weapon, and revamping the LAW...

They already have the high-damage-low-mag handcannon and it's opposite, the high-mag-low-damage 9mm, and they don't really need an "In between" which your idea isn't anyway...
 

Bio666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 10, 2009
788
2
0
They already have the high-damage-low-mag handcannon and it's opposite, the high-mag-low-damage 9mm, and they don't really need an "In between" which your idea isn't anyway...

1. Carry 9mm on your left hand
2, Carry HS on your right hand
3. ???
4. Profit

Edit: sorry, I mean HC, hand canon, not HS, hunting shotty
 
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Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
It just doesn't fit. Not going into the various reasons, as there are dozens of similar topics about it. Try searching before you create a topic requesting a gun...

And IMO, there are a lot of things that need to be looked at/added before another pistol, such as some sort of bolt-action scoped rifle, a new Firebug weapon, and revamping the LAW...

They already have the high-damage-low-mag handcannon and it's opposite, the high-mag-low-damage 9mm, and they don't really need an "In between" which your idea isn't anyway...

I tried searching and there were no other topics about single action revolvers that I could find.

Please go into some detail as to why its a bad idea in lieu of "I hate it and I won't telll you why"

one bullet at a time reloading
more accurate iron sights (easier to use) for distance shooting
1 or 2 slots
100-180 cost
secondary fire held down for 50% inrease in fire rate (or more, subject to testing) for a burst of damage


maybe address these points at least?

I had another post that WOULD HAVE gone after the previous double deagle post but it appears the admins don't like it when I post on the forums. So if they approve of the other one I guess this one will appear immediately after it.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
Now, you may personally prefer 1 shot reload, but almost everyone else prefers magazine reload as from a full empty it is much faster. On top of that, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever to be able to reload a revolver like that. The common way to reload a revolver is to dump out all the spent shells and then put in new ones. To reload it one at a time would mean you'd have to get rid of the spent bullets by hand before putting in new ones, which would ultimately take MUCH longer.

Ok this type of revolver is loaded one at a time with a loading gate and has a plunger for getting the spent shells out OR you can hold it up like you said. I don't know if you ever played the mod Action Half Life but they had a gun very similar to this one. But yes it would not take much longer as its easy to grasp the revolver with one hand and work the cylinder while dumping the rounds out and putting them back in. It would talk longer but again its a 1-2 slot gun that is like 100-180 in price. Its very cheap so it will have a few downsides.

I understand that it would be much easier to shoot long distance with it than the 9mm, but the somewhat better damage and slow reload would simply not be worth it. The 9mm would have slightly under 3x as much ammo per clip, and already reloads insanely fast; it's ok if you miss the first shot, just shoot again, the 9mm is one of the easiest guns to snipe with.

Well I do agree the 9mm reloads much faster but the thing about this gun is quick burst damage as well. You could unload your 9mm and then quickly swap to this and fan the hammer for a nice burst of damage in a panic situation. Its 1-2 slot weight allows you to carry it when in some situations you could not have a Hand Cannon or a second 9mm. You just reload when there is a lull which in a 6 man game happens quite often. You could even use it solely as a panic weapon if you so chose.

In most instances where you could have this its the choice between nothing and having this as there are no other guns with a 1-2 weight slot requirement.

Low weight and low cost are hardly effective arguments when comparing it against something that weighs nothing and is free.

Yes but I am comparing against "nothing" in this instance. Sure you have the 9mm but its still faster in a panic situation to just whip this out for some burst damage as it would fire fast than the 9mm with the hammer fanning. It also would do damage comparable to a LAR shot so you could potentially 1 hit a crawler or stalker with it and do enough to stun a gorefast which a normal 9mm shot would not do. This would buy some time to move back or potentially save your life. Again its for novices as well as skilled players as not everyone can constantly headshot with the 9mm.

Another large problem with it is the ammo, why would you think 36 shots is enough? Even the LAR (which is basically a much higher damage, higher weight version of what you're suggesting) has 80 bullets, and I will sometimes find myself running out of that. 36 is not enough.

Well the ammunition would not be set in stone if that much ammo serves to be too little than it could easily be upped to 72 shots or more.

The fan for burst damage sounds like a cool idea in theory, but think about it in practice. What are you most likely to use it on? A strong enemy. Go and shoot 6 handcannon shots at a scrake and see how alive it still is. Now imagine doing even less damage. Plus, it negates this gun's strongest point, the high accuracy.

Well you do have the potential for downing it as you could just aim up and unload all 6 faster than 6 hand cannon shots which could potentially save you if everyone else is helping you with the scrake. As you know when the scrake charges and is sticking the chainsaw in your face it could be the difference between life and death.

Its also faster to pull this gun out then reload other guns you might be carrying. So if a scrake is barreling down you or if a mob of gorefasts is laying into you doing a quick fanning of all 6 rounds with comparable LAR damage which be a burst of damage that would be almost shotgun like in initial damage (no penetration obviously). So in instances where you can't hold a shotgun it could again be the difference between life and death.

And again the big perk about this weapon is its dirt cheap and fits into loadouts where no other weapon currently fits. There are no 1-2 slot weapons in the game.

Like if you joined a game and no one gave you money or a gun you could easily fully load this and purchase an additional grenade. That coupled with your starting 9mm ammo would be a nice loadout for a very cheap price (again providing you are not rank 5 so you don't start with anything already).

Or you buy your loadout and find you have like <200 left in the bank and want another weapon then there you go, you buy the cheap revolver.

It is really just filling a niche that is currently empty in the state of this game.
 

Sammers

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 2, 2009
1,646
547
0
Scotland
one bullet at a time reloading
more accurate iron sights (easier to use) for distance shooting
1 or 2 slots
100-180 cost
secondary fire held down for 50% inrease in fire rate (or more, subject to testing) for a burst of damage
So basically.......a lighter, cheaper Lever-Action Rifle with a secondary, faster, fire mode? Remove the alt fire and up the price to something like 400 and this revolver would be to the Lever-Action, what the Katana is to the Chainsaw; a slighty less powerful, although lighter and more expensive, version of the LAR. I don't see that it's needed, but since similar content has been released, it's perfectly probable. I however, don't see the need for it, other than the fun feeling of holding a revolver, so don't hold your breath on the subject.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
So basically.......a lighter, cheaper Lever-Action Rifle with a secondary, faster, fire mode? Remove the alt fire and up the price to something like 400 and this revolver would be to the Lever-Action, what the Katana is to the Chainsaw; a slighty less powerful, although lighter and more expensive, version of the LAR. I don't see that it's needed, but since similar content has been released, it's perfectly probable. I however, don't see the need for it, other than the fun feeling of holding a revolver, so don't hold your breath on the subject.

Well it is balanced out as in the LAR automatically kicks out a spent cartridge with each shot. You can then put a cartridge right into the loading gate for quick reloading.

The revolver would have to dump out the spent cartridges manually. So the LAR still retains the 10 rounds to the revolvers 6 as well as much faster reolading and more damage per shot.

So the LAR would still be in favor for more ammo capacity per magazine and faster reload times.

Though the revolver would basically have faster reload times for the fewer shots being fired. 1 round would reload extremely quickly as you are just dumping a single cartridge then chambering a cartridge.

This is an example:

YouTube - COLT SAA

Though that guy is using the plunger to remove spent rounds and you can easily hold the gun in one hand and rotate the cylinder with that same hand for much faster removal and reloading of cartridges. Hes basically taking the slow way of doing it but this video basically shows the reloading mechanism of a single action revolver.

You can tip the gun up and rotate the cylinder to dump the cartridges.
 

Bio666

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 10, 2009
788
2
0
I believe there's a mechanism that helps you reload 6 bulles at a time, though I'm not sure what's the name.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
I believe there's a mechanism that helps you reload 6 bulles at a time, though I'm not sure what's the name.

Yeah for double action revolvers the entire cylinder swings out and you can use a speed loader:

speedloader.jpg

But with single action revolvers the cylinder does not swing out and is locked in place.

Fanning is basically holding the trigger down and pushing the hammer quickly firing the weapon at an almost automatic rate of fire. Because of how double action revolvers have a 2 stage trigger you cannot hold the trigger and fan the hammer.
 

Vaevictus_Asmadi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 28, 2009
38
0
0
Someone spent too much time and thought on a dead-end idea.

Thank you for your constructive and well thought out post.

Could you please elaborate?

What about this makes it any more dead end than any other weapon suggestion?
 
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