RO2 Availbility

[=GG= Mr Moe]

I just wanted to add, in addition to what others have said that perhaps ROHOS being tied to Steam exclusively has a lot to do with contracts on the game's distribution, costs and fees, and other things where it might be favorable to TWI by making it required to run the game thru Steam. Just throwing that out there.

 

[doomis]

He is probably one of those anti-establishment types that listens to Black Flag. He probably views Steam no differently from the CIA, FBI and Masonic Lodge.

Awww how cute, here is some food for you:

I actually prefer someone thinking like him than someone who happily embraces everything new. Not that I agree with what you said about CIA etc. but as always you use all the extremities. But to think that your vote has the power that it should have is kinda silly. At least that's what I believe.

 

[Reise]

Steam ain't new bro, and we've had plenty of time to decide whether or not to embrace it.

It was a bothersome waste of time a few years ago, now it actually serves several purposes and there's really no reason not to use it if you're doing any sort of gaming on PC.

 

[origination]

I have explained it really why I have a dislike for the 100% steam exclusive idea.

Basically I don't like the idea of "Accounts". You buy a game, you bind it to an account. Now you no longer own the game, you own the login information to an account that has access to the game. You actually technically don't even own the account you create, they claim that they still own the rights to that. You are just allowed to log into it and play the game. Now technically this is fine under most circumstances, if you don't do anything to lose the account you should be fine. But there are circumstances where the account could be stripped from you at their discretion even if you did nothing that you are aware of to violate service agreements. You can lose the account due to hackers. I bought a copy of half life 2 game of the year addition back in 2005. I logged onto the account about 10 times total over the first month. Then I stopped using steam all together till around 2007 when I decided to play CSS. I re-installed steam for the first time in 2 years, tried to login, no dice. The password doesn't match. I contact steam customer service, after 2 weeks and having to scan a copy of my booklet with my cd-key on it I got my account restored, only to find it was VAC banned.

I guess I just like the old fashioned concept of buying a product and owning it.

 

[Klaus]

I have explained it really why I have a dislike for the 100% steam exclusive idea.

Basically I don't like the idea of "Accounts". You buy a game, you bind it to an account. Now you no longer own the game, you own the login information to an account that has access to the game. You actually technically don't even own the account you create, they claim that they still own the rights to that. You are just allowed to log into it and play the game. Now technically this is fine under most circumstances, if you don't do anything to lose the account you should be fine. But there are circumstances where the account could be stripped from you at their discretion even if you did nothing that you are aware of to violate service agreements. You can lose the account due to hackers. I bought a copy of half life 2 game of the year addition back in 2005. I logged onto the account about 10 times total over the first month. Then I stopped using steam all together till around 2007 when I decided to play CSS. I re-installed steam for the first time in 2 years, tried to login, no dice. The password doesn't match. I contact steam customer service, after 2 weeks and having to scan a copy of my booklet with my cd-key on it I got my account restored, only to find it was VAC banned.

I guess I just like the old fashioned concept of buying a product and owning it.

Do you have keys for your door at home? That doesnt mean you own the key and the house belongs to someone else. Whether you buy retail or download it from Steam, the game will still be stored at your computer. I would rather have the game attached to steam then have it cracked so easily.
Why you were banned? thats something between you and Steam, mistakes might have been made but I do believe there's something you are not telling us.

 

[Nimsky]

I like Steam, but the only gripe I have with it is that you do need to have it installed to download and, in many cases, play the games. That may not necessarily be a bad thing, but essentially your games are still owned by Valve. What if Valve goes bankrupt? Or what if Valve, for whatever reason, decides to implement something that makes it more difficult or expensive to download the games? You never know. It can easily happen.

That's what I like about GoG.com. You buy the game, you download the .exe and that's it. No BS. You can then burn the .exe on a DVD or keep it on your external HD and the game is forever yours. No separate program or login required. Steam isn't like that at all.

That said, RO2 will be a day 1 buy for me from Steam.

 

[BlueSmiley]

I have explained it really why I have a dislike for the 100% steam exclusive idea.

Basically I don't like the idea of "Accounts". You buy a game, you bind it to an account. Now you no longer own the game, you own the login information to an account that has access to the game. You actually technically don't even own the account you create, they claim that they still own the rights to that. You are just allowed to log into it and play the game. Now technically this is fine under most circumstances, if you don't do anything to lose the account you should be fine. But there are circumstances where the account could be stripped from you at their discretion even if you did nothing that you are aware of to violate service agreements. You can lose the account due to hackers. I bought a copy of half life 2 game of the year addition back in 2005. I logged onto the account about 10 times total over the first month. Then I stopped using steam all together till around 2007 when I decided to play CSS. I re-installed steam for the first time in 2 years, tried to login, no dice. The password doesn't match. I contact steam customer service, after 2 weeks and having to scan a copy of my booklet with my cd-key on it I got my account restored, only to find it was VAC banned.

I guess I just like the old fashioned concept of buying a product and owning it.

You are very right. My father downloaded a trojan a few weeks ago and the bastard hacked my steam account. (with

 

[Tomcat_ha]

i have never seen boxed copies of either RO or KF here in the netherlands, despite europe being a bigger market for PC gaming.

 

[Mr. Explosion]

Oh my... likening a piece of software to a house, or simply 'refuting' objections with 'I don't care what you all say'. At least origination's criticism makes some sense

 

[origination]

Why you were banned? thats something between you and Steam, mistakes might have been made but I do believe there's something you are not telling us.

That is one major thing I don't like about the system. Somebody says they were banned, somebody says their account was hacked and everyone assumes it was the end users fault. Like steam could not possibly make a mistake or their system is 100% invulnerable to attack. Look at the recent problem with VAC2 in MW2. A load of accounts were "Mistakenly" banned without cause. The system is not flawless, nor is anything.

Really my comments are not criticism of steam, I just think that all games that are sold through steam as 3rd party games should be both LINKED to the users steam account AND available for the person to play independently of steam.

Also the comments about "cracking" not being as easy with steam is just completely false. Again, MW2 you could actually(or still can) play ONLINE! with a cracked copy. That cannot be said about any FPS game that is sold outside of steam, or is sold via steam but functions independently. If you don't have a valid CD-Key in any other fps you are not getting online. With steam games actually you really don't even need a cracked copy of a game to play it. You can download a cracked steam client witch works as a universal crack for all games on steam. All you have to do is download the GCF/NFC files for the game you want to play and viola, you can play it. Worse then retail games, as specific games don't even need to be cracked.

l love how BattleField: Bad Company 2 is setup on steam. You can buy the game on steam. The game is linked to your steam account and you can download/play the game via steam. You can view your CD-Key via your steam account and with this, you can use any other copy of the game as well. EA has their own downloader for the game that you can use to download the game, and with your CD-Key/EA Account you can play the game with that version as well. So you have options, you have a 1 time copy on steam that works with that Steam account only, and you have the EA downloader copy as well. Very nice system witch allows more freedom and still provides the availability of steam as well.

 

[Hans Ludwig]

That is one major thing I don't like about the system. Somebody says they were banned, somebody says their account was hacked and everyone assumes it was the end users fault. Like steam could not possibly make a mistake or their system is 100% invulnerable to attack. Look at the recent problem with VAC2 in MW2. A load of accounts were "Mistakenly" banned without cause. The system is not flawless, nor is anything.

Really my comments are not criticism of steam, I just think that all games that are sold through steam as 3rd party games should be both LINKED to the users steam account AND available for the person to play independently of steam.

Also the comments about "cracking" not being as easy with steam is just completely false. Again, MW2 you could actually(or still can) play ONLINE! with a cracked copy. That cannot be said about any FPS game that is sold outside of steam, or is sold via steam but functions independently. If you don't have a valid CD-Key in any other fps you are not getting online. With steam games actually you really don't even need a cracked copy of a game to play it. You can download a cracked steam client witch works as a universal crack for all games on steam. All you have to do is download the GCF/NFC files for the game you want to play and viola, you can play it. Worse then retail games, as specific games don't even need to be cracked.

l love how BattleField: Bad Company 2 is setup on steam. You can buy the game on steam. The game is linked to your steam account and you can download/play the game via steam. You can view your CD-Key via your steam account and with this, you can use any other copy of the game as well. EA has their own downloader for the game that you can use to download the game, and with your CD-Key/EA Account you can play the game with that version as well. So you have options, you have a 1 time copy on steam that works with that Steam account only, and you have the EA downloader copy as well. Very nice system witch allows more freedom and still provides the availability of steam as well.

How about you not be so specific on how to play or get a hold of cracked games? I mean you basically created a how-to guide in this post of yours.

 

[origination]

How about you not be so specific on how to play or get a hold of cracked games? I mean you basically created a how-to guide in this post of yours.

I apologize for that, that is obviously not my intent. However the comment keeps creeping up that steam is a better solution because it is harder to pirate. It is actually easier based on the fact that people already created cracked steam clients, and once you have the cracked steam client, you have a universal crack for all games on steam.

Anyways, this whole thing has skyrocketed way off base from my intent of this thread. I could care less if they release game on steam or not. I will buy this game no matter what as I am huge RO fan, and RO2 looks simply amazing.

Also I would like to specify I am not against steam completely. I just think 3rd party games sold through steam should be capable of running independently of steam, that is all.

 

[Taisenki]

I want a boxed copy. Why?

1) Cheaper than steam..steam overcharge by about

 

[Hans Ludwig]

I want a boxed copy. Why?

1) Cheaper than steam..steam overcharge by about

 

[dogbadger]

And the boxed version, which is so 2001, is good for? Oh, yeah, scratches, misplaced CD key, collects dust, stores other CD/DVDs because you are too lazy to hunt down the proper case, etc...etc...

it has to be remembered that not everyone is a useless fukwit.

 

[origination]

And the boxed version, which is so 2001, is good for? Oh, yeah, scratches, misplaced CD key, collects dust, stores other CD/DVDs because you are too lazy to hunt down the proper case, etc...etc...

Well thats why I propose you have both. If you buy it exclusively on steam, then fine, your copy can be exclusive to steam. I see no reason why it shouldn't. But, if you buy a boxed copy, I believe you should have the ability to install that and play it without steam even being installed on your system if you choose. Or if you want, you can install steam, use your CD-Key one time to activate your game on your steam account. Then you have both, an Independent free range copy you can play without steam, or you can play from steam if you choose. Its win/win. There is no loss here. Its dual backup at its finest, steam providing extra support rather then just a complete alternative. If you should manage to lose your disks/CD-Key, no problem, you still have your steam account. If you should have a mishap with your steam account, no problem, you still have your boxed copy.

I hate how these days when you buy a flashy Boxed copy of a game, you get this whole flashy graphically enhanced box. You usually get at least 2-5 disks and books and all this extra crap that comes with it. But then in the end you end up just binding your copy of the game to an account, witch in turn pretty much renders those disks/the whole box as nothing more then a flashy little papper weight. Its like you buy a game and then trade it for an account entry in a database somewhere.

 

[Mr. Explosion]

Probably every gamer can sympathise with your proposition, but the game publishers don't. Allow me to explain briefly why someone like Valve Corporation would rather gnaw off its arms than support independent retail copies.

Valve Corporation loses out if you can circumvent Steam. They can't collect your data, can't advertise their products to you, and earn less from copies sold outside of Steam (while still having to provide the same 'services'). Retail copies which require Steam certainly aren't the best case scenario for them (not purchased over their platform, after all), but at least it allows them to stick their foot in the door.
Legal status also plays into this. Publishers want to restrict control you can exercise over a product you've bought (e.g. second-hand sales, modding, etc.). If the physical component you purchase enables you to do all this, there's nothing they can do about it. When a DRM-scheme like Steam is employed, all you possess is a token enabling you to ask for permission to play the game you've bought (it doesn't only sound absurd, it is absurd). This way control remains completely in the publisher's hand, enabling them to enforce anything they desire. Legally.

You might object that this isn't fully valid for third-party games, but remember the already mentioned Steamworks component. While advertised as 'free', its use practically requires the adoption of Valve Corporation's objectives by making the Steam component mandatory.
Like you said, choice would greatly benefit the customer, but the publisher would need to give up profits and control. One group is apparently willing to make the sacrifice, the other one isn't. That's why RO2 won't give you the choice you desire.

 

[dogbadger]

Legal status also plays into this. Publishers want to restrict control you can exercise over a product you've bought (e.g. second-hand sales, modding, etc.). If the physical component you purchase enables you to do all this, there's nothing they can do about it. When a DRM-scheme like Steam is employed, all you possess is a token enabling you to ask for permission to play the game you've bought (it doesn't only sound absurd, it is absurd). This way control remains completely in the publisher's hand, enabling them to enforce anything they desire. Legally....

this is what I object to and have mentioned on a few occasions - i buy TF2 from valve, i buy RO/KF from TWi retail but am forced to use the steam system to use them - a system does not allow me to play RO or KF on my computer while my son plays TF2 on his.
However, taking EULA not to affect statatory rights, i wonder how legal this restriction is.
The argument that the system that doesn't allow this cannot be changed would open a counter argument that in that case I should be allowed to transfer the ownership of my sole copy of TF2 to another account.

 

[Hans Ludwig]

this is what I object to and have mentioned on a few occasions - i buy TF2 from valve, i buy RO/KF from TWi retail but am forced to use the steam system to use them - a system does not allow me to play RO or KF on my computer while my son plays TF2 on his.
However, taking EULA not to affect statatory rights, i wonder how legal this restriction is.
The argument that the system that doesn't allow this cannot be changed would open a counter argument that in that case I should be allowed to transfer the ownership of my sole copy of TF2 to another account.

Then make two separate accounts. Problem solved.

 

[origination]

Then make two separate accounts. Problem solved.

Nice, then you end up with 10-20 different steam accounts you have to remember, depending on how many games you buy. I currently have to shift back and forth between 6 different steam accounts to play the games I have purchased. I learned long ago after my mishap with my HL2 GOTY edition steam account that putting each game onto a different account really is the best option, but logging into so many multiple accounts is just a pain in the ***.