RO1 vs RO2

[Josef Nader]

Sensemann, I respect what you're saying, and I will definitely give you this: RO2's level of tactical depth and enjoyment is predicated on exactly the same thing that RO1's tactical depth and enjoyment was predicated on; having a good team. Near the end of it's life, RO1 had weeded out all the lone wolves and non-team players, and only the hardcore veterans who were really in it for the teamwork were left. Everyone knew the maps like the back of their hands, had a good idea how all the weapons worked and how to deal with them on the battlefield, and recognized the importance of group tactics.

I've been in some insanely frustrating games. I play MG'er, my effectiveness is directly predicated on my teammate's ability to keep the enemy engaged and -not- hunting me. It's hard to worry about the MG firing OVER the head of the guy running at you with a bayonet. So, a lot of my games are exercises in patience/frustration as I spend most of my time desperately trying to reach a good firing position without being noticed.

However, I often see what happens when players actually start to coordinate. I was playing on the 101st Jager server earlier, and there were 2-3 Jagers who teamed up each time, and by sheer virtue of communicating between themselves they managed to coordinate the entire team. I worked both with and against this little group, and the effectiveness of a little cooperation was incredible.

I set up a strong MG position in my usual spot on Spartanovka, killed several of the Axis. They were communicating, because suddenly three different riflemen opened up on me from different angles. I crawled back into my foxhole, drew my pistol, and got ready to make a break for it when two potato mashers landed in my fox hole and blew me to bits.

I respawned and ran to the church to try and set up again right as the Axis assault hit us. Potato mashers came in from 4 different angles, killed almost all of the Russian resistance, and took the church.

They carried this momentum through the rest of the map, the same group of folks coordinating and working together. They even got an MG team (as in a rifleman and an MG'er moving together) in on the cooperative action, and basically steamrolled the Russians for several rounds.

Then the teams swapped, and I ended up on the Russian team with the Jager guys. Again, very simple VOIP communication and the entire team (which only minutes before was an uncoordinated mess) suddenly started to stomp the Germans to death. Basic stuff like "Everyone mass up at the marker. We're going to launch an assault from that position" and "Alright everyone, throw grenades into the structure on my mark" and at least half the team was playing nice together.

Then some more Jager guys got on and the server really lit up. Both sides coordinating and working together, and we had some incredibly fierce combat for the next few rounds.

This isn't the only example of teamplay I've been apart of, but it's enough to remind me why this game is worth it. Give it time. Let the kiddies and stat whores get bored and run along. Do your best to encourage teamplay. Use a mic, if you have it. Play SL and give some orders. Who knows, maybe you have some halfway intelligent people on the server who will start to follow what you say.

My point is this, RO1 had a -very- mature community by the time RO2 rolled around, and RO2 is the "latest and greatest tacticool awesome realism shooter" to a lot of folks waiting for the other fall releases (not because TWI marketed towards this crowd, but because it has a dude with a gun on the front of the box and promises "REALISM". You could sell boxes of parasitic beetles if you put a guy with a gun on the cover and called it realistic). Give them time to filter out, give people time to learn the maps and the mechanics, and let the game and it's community mature a bit more. I've just scratched the surface of the teamplay in the few weeks I've been playing RO2, and I can already tell you that the door is open to far more depth and tactics than Vanilla RO:OST ever had (mods don't count). Just give it time. Tactics don't develop overnight.

Also Lockdown is the worst thing to happen to gaming since ET.

 

[Sensemann]

@Colt .45 killer

Yes, it was with you, (CAF)Jack and I think [SIN]cntrybyz if I remember correctly. Don't remember which server I was on though I am on the 2fkr server quite often though so it might have been it.

Near the end of it's life, RO1 had weeded out all the lone wolves and non-team players, and only the hardcore veterans who were really in it for the teamwork were left.

True is that RO had a lot of people that I kept meeting over and over again for the last 2-3 years and they were all experienced since I have met them so many times. So they must have played again and again. Communication was almost always awesome with some of these guys. My personal favorite is ]nxs[ H.O.R.S.E who seemed to be full of anger (in a funny way) when he was SL and shouted to the whole team to advance or get shot for cowardness.

Of course you are right when saying that people that are new to the series will eventually understand that teamplay and coordination is needed. But in my eyes, a lockdown of 10 minutes gives the impression to many that they can make a choice between "Do I spend 10 minutes dying, trying to get into the cap, likely, not making it" or "Do I spend 10 minutes, pushing my stats?"
That's the real concern I have. The rewarding system is based on kills. You get xp for kills, that push your weapon. You get xp for capping and you are level 80 with the same weaponry as before. Now again: I don't care about levels but many players want to get that fancy Mkb and guess what they choose to do in-game?

And, unlike many others, I have not seen the overpowered German team up to now.
Spartanovka, Apartments, Pavlov's, Station, Red October Factory and Barracks are all maps, where I see the Russians winning in 90% of the cases. Only commissar's house seems to be 50-50 for me as it depends on the russian team either brainlessly frontal attack and get mged down from the sides, or they can pull up a flanking movement themselves.

 

[Black Valor]

RO1 ruthless brutal harsh RO1 ruthless brutal harsh RO1 ruthless brutal harsh RO1 ruthless brutal harsh RO1 ruthless brutal harsh RO1 ruthless brutal harsh

Shortened that post for you.

RO1 is inferior to RO2 in every way, except the availability of mods and other user created content - but that's an irrelevant point anyway.

 

[Josef Nader]

@Sensemann

Well, I've said it once, and I'll say it again, Lockdown needs to go bye bye. I'd much rather struggle against a clearly superior team for an hour than have the game declare the mercy rule 5 minutes in. It's just robbing me of any sense of achievement as a defender (JUST CAMP CAP UNTIL ARBITRARY TIMER RUNS OUT instead of ALRIGHT GUYS, LINE OF DEFENSE. GIVE IT SOME DEPTH. SEEKING MAXIMUM CASUALTIES. WE NEED TO TURN THEM BACK! MAKE THEM PAY FOR EVERY INCH!) and as an attacker it just means we have to resort to the dumbest, most suicidal tactic in the history of warfare, the full-frontal charge against an entrenched defender. There just isn't enough time in the lockdown to deal with a defense that has a brain in it's head and a sense of depth as an attacker.

Seriously, lockdown is the biggest turd in the punchbowl for me, and the one thing keeping a lot of players from seeing the depth of tactics available to you in RO2. If players had more damn time to experiment, test themselves against positions and defenses, and probe around to find the best strategies and tactics, I get the feeling that people would appreciate teamplay a lot more. As it stands, thanks to lockdown, it's basically just "RUSH THE CAP GUYS! JUST ****ING RUSH! WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT!"

When lockdown goes, so will 90% of the complaints regarding game pacing and lack of tactics.

At this point, if it was a choice between lockdown and having stat progression, I wouldn't even look back at the stats. I don't care that it's basically farming points for the defenders. Lock out stat progression on lockdown-free servers. I'd never play anything else.

 

[Lt.PeterStegman]

RO1 and DH were amazing games.
Played those from 2006 until this year.

In RO2 i have to rethink about 50 times of even starting it.
-bugs
-gamemechanics
-maps
-sound
-lag
-statssystem (urg)
-1 tank with ai

 

[Kosigan]

RO2 has grown on me. I agree that much larger maps would make the game shine...

It has so much potential, but I don't think we'll be seeing the best parts of what the game can do for at least a year.

 

[Mike 78]

Weapons handle great, SMGs have more realistic recoil.

you can't be serious. You must not have a clue about realistic gun handeling.

 

[SCandChives]

It would probably be a good idea to include the original mod as well as from what I've heard (never actually played it ) there were a lot of differences gameplaywise between that and RO1.

 

[wooki]

I looove active squadleaders. I break my back reaching their markers and sticking with my squads.
Then again there's the headset commanders who will constantly grunt meaningless stuff, "Get in the cap! You guys suck! We will loose" (usually delivered in a stoned easteuropean accent).
Yesterday as a russian on Spartanovka I was moving up towards a defensezone. The sl was whining about camping when the squad was pinned by fire and I was just about to peg two krauts setting up just ahead of us when this asshat sl says "Stop camping. Wooki you're useless." And pistolwhips me to death. Promptly getting the squad wasted seconds after by the guys I was aiming at.

I didn't even get mad. I was more in shock. I've read many dork posts on steam where people say russian squad leaders should get teampoints for tk'ing for "morale".
Propably the same guys who say "If the game is supposed to be realistic how come all russians have guns?"

Anyway, spent most of the rest of the match keeping away from him and acting mg-support.

I have to say. RO1 did not have these "Enemy at the gates"-realism guys. RO2 has attracted a new breed of players but I'm quite sure they will improve given time

 

[catfish@rock]

Shortened that post for you.

RO1 is inferior to RO2 in every way, except the availability of mods and other user created content - but that's an irrelevant point anyway.

sigh, ignorance is a bliss.

I bet I can simply outnumber you in total playtime of pc FPS games and might outplay you in most of the games.
arma 1,2, arma2 pr, insurgency mod, AA3, ro1, 2, crysis 2, cod mw1, 2,

Think hard and long before you make risky comment.

 

[Sufyan]

[...] I didn't even get mad. I was more in shock. I've read many dork posts on steam where people say russian squad leaders should get teampoints for tk'ing for "morale".
Propably the same guys who say "If the game is supposed to be realistic how come all russians have guns?"

Anyway, spent most of the rest of the match keeping away from him and acting mg-support.

I have to say. RO1 did not have these "Enemy at the gates"-realism guys. RO2 has attracted a new breed of players but I'm quite sure they will improve given time

This epic history fail made me laugh out loud, while my soul cries a little. Normally it is the victors who write history but for some reason German war time propaganda fills in the blanks on the mainstream Eastern Front story.

 

[Dawnbreaker]

RO1 gave me the feeling I was participating in epic battles, RO2 gives me the feeling im just playing another shooter again.

Thats not true, if you can organize your team and get it working towards the objectives that feeling comes back

 

[Thaelyn]

And what about "silenced" nades? Half of the nades I throw produce no sound at all.
.

I've noticed this as well, but I chalked it up to the fact that I have turned down the audio channels in the interest of overall performance. If my game can only play so many sounds at once, something's gonna get left out. I just figured it was my grenades that drew the short straw.

 

[the_Monk]

sigh, ignorance is a bliss.

I bet I can simply outnumber you in total playtime of pc FPS games and might outplay you in most of the games.
arma 1,2, arma2 pr, insurgency mod, AA3, ro1, 2, crysis 2, cod mw1, 2,

Think hard and long before you make risky comment.

And what exactly does that prove?

I've played almost every FPS since doom and ROTT (rise of the triads). Played the original COD (and every one since), the original MOH (and every one since), the original Battlefield (back when 1942 was a cheap rip-off of the groundbreaking MP FPS called Codename Eagle.....every one since). Played and modded Operation Flashpoint (before it was cool and became ArmA).

See? There is always someone around who has "been there" even more than you have. It's all meaningless and certainly doesn't make your opinion worth more than someone else's.

 

[Crumplecorn]

Real guns sound really loud and have harsh cracking mechanical sound, not somewhat muzzled sound like BF3 or RO2.
and real life explosive can blow your ear drum in some cases, but games can't have these therefore most arcadic FPS dev's muzzle the gun/ explosive sound to protect gamer's ears.

If only we had some way to control the output level of sound systems, then game developers wouldn't have to carefully normalize sound levels to avoid blowing gamers' ear drums.

 

[Sufyan]

I am very certain that sound design for both films and games follow this route because listening to hours of supersonic snaps is unbearable to most people except for the most fanatic realism freak. Realistic sounds are also quite pale in an aesthetic sense. RO2 is quite functional in it's game design while BF3 is over the top stylized. I like both, and in the long run I think I would prefer them both to super realistic sound design.

Another reason is because audiences expects guns to sound a certain way because that is what they have learned to expect. I've often read that people call realistic sounds unrealistic because it sounds like fire crackers to them.

 

[catfish@rock]

Those are small fraction of FPSs I played.
meaning I at least know some more that his comment is not exactly correct.
sufyian you have loud mouth. realism freaks, good choice of words.

From arcade shooter fans' point of view, we all look like historic pseudo realism shooter freaks, you know this, right?

Even though insurgency mod, arma... and ro1 had rather unmuzzled harsh sound it didn't deafen my ear at all.
So I'd much rather hear more realistical sound than muzzled studio modified sound.
Above all else, I can adjust the volume but I can't change muzzled sound.

Also wasn't RO meant for serious gamers who at least know how the real gun sound like?

I guess if someone is serious enough to keep playing RO, I don't think he really want to hear artificially modified muzzled gun sound in most cases.

 

[Sufyan]

meaning I at least know some more that his comment is not correct.

sufyian you have loud mouth. realsitc freak good choice of words.

From arcade shooter fans point of view we all look like historic pseudo realism freaks, you know this, right?

Even though insurgency mod, arma... and ro1 had rather unmuzzled harsh sound it didn't deaf my ear at all.

So I'd much rather hear more realistical sound than muzzled studio modified sound.

Above all else, I can adjust the volume but I can't change muzzled sound.

I meant no offense by it, I call myself all kinds of freak. You are reading too much into my post and linking my statements together with posts I do not agree with.

 

[Roardk]

Honestly i prefer Old one :/ mostly because there's more realism and i didn't loss 40hours of progress in stats which really put my mood down

 

[Cyper]

[...] Near the end of it's life, RO1 had weeded out all the lone wolves and non-team players, and only the hardcore veterans who were really in it for the teamwork were left. Everyone knew the maps like the back of their hands, had a good idea how all the weapons worked and how to deal with them on the battlefield, and recognized the importance of group tactics.

I am not sure exactly what you mean but it sounds like you're saying that RO should be accesible for everyone to play. Do you mean game thaat isn't only for a certain audience but also for casual gamers who wants to pick it up fast and play it?

If that's what you meant I don't agree at all.

I don't feel sorry for casual gamers. If the game isn't for them they can just play some of the hundreds of other games out there that gives them exactly that. For people that are into more hardcore gameplay there is basicly only arma and ro to choose from and that's aboutit. Yet, I've heard various people saying that it's important that all games are ''accesible'' for everyone. 90% of all games is like that. Why would the 10% of hardcore genre games be that aswell? It's simply not logical. If anyone is justified to whine It's the people that stick to games like ro and arma since we have so few games like that to play.