RO-realitymod suggestion

[Teq]

RO-REALISM MODiFICATION:

After endless argues about:
Gameplay vs realism
Historical vs functional
Teamwork vs personal freedom

I decided to start a thread only for those who crave some of the following:

1) Improved teamwork - stay close to mates for benefits (ie less suppression FX)
2) Real effects of damage - knockdown, crippeling wounds and bleeding
3) Realistic reinforcements - Alternative to 15 sec interval, limit classes.
4) Effective suppression effects - Anti-heroic behaviour
5) Realistic maps
6) Increased fear of death
7) Other feats/suggestions - Commander map, Join squad etc

The realismmod MAIN intent is up teamwork, increase fear of death, and slow down the game Phase an inch

This will make firefights last longer, players will be non-heroic, one will have more time to coordinate and communicate.
Additionally one will survive longer as firefights will be engaged a longer distances.

Some adds might not be historical correct but would non-the-less add too the games primary intent.
Also I do NOT wish to prioritize pure cosmetic changes (if it doesn not add to the game's intent)

If we can make a mut/mod, we get to try our needs, while the opposition get their needs = end of unlimited argues and flaming.

WE NEED coders, 3D artists, Soundartists, Mapmakers, supporters, and ideas NOW!

If you enjoy this idea and want to help creating a mutation for RO, based on this, or just have feedback, please contact me.

 

[Teq]

COMPILED SUGGESTIONS FOR RO-Realitymod

COMPILED SUGGESTIONS FOR RO-Realitymod

THis section will contain links that discuss the ideas suggested for the Mod.

SQUAD SYSTEM:
http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=170005#post170005

COMMUNICATION:

REINFORCEMENTS:

WOUND EFFECTS:

MORALE vs SUPPRESSION EFFECTS

MAPPING:

WEAPON FUNCTION:

VEHICLE FUNCTIONS:

 

[Dax02]

somehow this sounds good ^^

this would be the maybe only way to implement the one big difference between Sowjet Tank Crews and Germans, the Germans where often real veterans and sitting in a Tiger gives a big moral plus

of course sitting in a IS2 would affact to the moral in a positiv way and it also should be somehow balanced, to grant still fair chances.

Maybe, if doing so, think about the historical facts. Russians had a lot of everything and numbered the germans out but the german stuff was often somehow better or the crews had more skill

for example fighting with with 3x Tiger I E and 3x Pz IV G and maybe 5 possible arty strikes against 9x T34/76 and 2x T34/85 and endless artillery support for russians ... you know what I mean? ^^

 

[Moz]

I don't like the idea of players control of the characters being over written, like the automatically running away, etc.

What I could rather is is sluggish control or freezing of controls.

 

[Teq]

I don't like the idea of players control of the characters being over written, like the automatically running away, etc.

What I could rather is is sluggish control or freezing of controls.

Yes, I agree on that.
Actually I would vote both.
We've done it this way so far:

MOrale effects:
20% = characters breathing is nervous lesser effects on stamina and aiming.
10% = Intensification of the above effect
0% = slight sluggishness on controls, blury vision, hearing slighly imparied
-10% = Heavy sluggishness on controls, tunnel vision, light panic sounds
-20% = Almost no control, and heavy tunnel vision, hearing heartbeats and breathing.
-30% = Panic level 1 = Auto dives for cover and freezes. No vision.
-40% = Panic level 2 = Auto flee random direction no vision, full panic.
-50% = Panic lever 3 = surrender (longer respawn time penalty)

Panic Recovery time:
Nobody near = 2% recovered pr sec
Teammates close = 4% recovered pr sec/teammate
Squadleader close = 6% recovered pr sec

Once character has recovered to about 20% the controls go back to normal.

 

[sharpshooterklj]

I like the idea of a morale system. If it gets low enough, the player breathes heavy and aim is less steady when not resting your gun. If possible, the moral can be represented by some sort of creative HUD indicator (or comments made by the player, such as 'I don't feel too good about this' or 'F*** IM OUTTA HERE', etc. and certain comments correspond with certain morale levels.) I think a feasible thing for morale dropping too low would be the player going prone while blacking out and dropping his weapons. He would recover after a set amount of seconds, or recover faster if friendlies enter the area or kill enemies nearby. Other stuff would probably be too hard to implement with just a mutator.

Yeah, what you said up there ^ looks fine. (I was writing this while you posted.)

 

[Teq]

I like the idea of a morale system. If it gets low enough, the player breathes heavy and aim is less steady when not resting your gun. If possible, the moral can be represented by some sort of creative HUD indicator (or comments made by the player, such as 'I don't feel too good about this' or 'F*** IM OUTTA HERE', etc. and certain comments correspond with certain morale levels.) I think a feasible thing for morale dropping too low would be the player going prone while blacking out and dropping his weapons. He would recover after a set amount of seconds, or recover faster if friendlies enter the area or kill enemies nearby. Other stuff would probably be too hard to implement with just a mutator.

Yeah, what you said up there ^ looks fine. (I was writing this while you posted.)

haha I just posted what you just said
Yeah, comments would be great... and add some cinematic feel on it.
You might be right about, other stuff would be hard to implement.
I would satisfy with alot less than "my" ideal idea....

Take a look at the previous post and see if you like the effects.
We're open to all suggestions

 

[kabex]

AWESOME!!! Thank you Teg!

We've been waiting for a coder to get interested in this, there's a LOT of us that want RO:OST to be even more realistic.

For inspiration refer to the Close Combat Series, Operation Flashpoint and Combat Mission. Great games(I know you mentioned CM and OFP).

Please, read this thread:
http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10068


I posted a lot of suggestions in my thread.

(IMO, fixing accuracy and recoil is an absolute must).

 

[Cyion]

A lot of the suggestions I like but I believe a lot of them would be hard or impossible to code. A lot of these ideas would take too much pc power, calculating distances and other factors etc.

 

[[-project.rattus-]]

Sounds interesting, allthough I still don't like the automatic controls. These could lead to problems too:

Let's say you panic untill you surrender. Now you walk towards the enemy (for which to do you'd have to "path" every map... don't think the bot-paths would suffice for that), but after 10 seconds, you decrease in panic level, and start to dash into a random direction... feels kinda awkward to me. I'd rather see something along the lines of "drop down and all your weapons" as the final stage.

And i'd up the effetc of MG fire a bit, like 2% per second of incoming MG fire.

 

[worluk]

interesting idea.

one problem i see with gameplay is the extreme long time the player actually does nothing. Walking up the enemy spawn, recovering from blackout, gaining back moral, all this leaves the player sitting in front of the screen watching the countryside. Though im sure there are some who wouldnt mind, the broad majority wouldnt like it. (you probably say that this is meant to be for the realism fans, who wouldnt mind )


Other points i noticed:
-commander drawing on a map => unrealistic
hell, even the map for every player and GPS is unrealistic, get rid of that stuff alltogether, give only the commander a map and make the map available to other players only when they are in a certain range to the commander.

-movement orders and teamchannel
unrealistic as long as it would only be audible in a certain distance.

Other Features:
-higher sway after you have been hit in an arm
-getting knocked down with non-lethal body shots and legshots
-permanent slowdown after legshots (also, if you make that too much, people will suicide and respawn, though you could fight that by taking away the suicide command or punish it with a long spawn time).

 

[Teq]

A lot of the suggestions I like but I believe a lot of them would be hard or impossible to code. A lot of these ideas would .

You might be correct.
As im not a coder, i dont know the limits.
I just post the idea in maximum complexity.
If it can be simplified and still work I'll still be happy.

Would take too much pc power, calculating distances and other factors etc

Ok try this:
You: Regular rifleman (basic morale 50%)
Squadleader is within 50m = +30% (total 80%)
Squadleader outside 50m = 0% (total 50%)

Combatmission is using the same idea, it makes it something I cant put away.
Now the Computer only needs to calculate if the commander is 50m away.
what do ya think?

 

[Teq]

Sounds interesting, allthough I still don't like the automatic controls. These could lead to problems too:
Let's say you panic untill you surrender. Now you walk towards the enemy (for which to do you'd have to "path" every map... don't think the bot-paths would suffice for that), but after 10 seconds, you decrease in panic level, and start to dash into a random direction... feels kinda awkward to me. I'd rather see something along the lines of "drop down and all your weapons" as the final stage.
And i'd up the effetc of MG fire a bit, like 2% per second of incoming MG fire.

Good feedback.
I see your point.

I think this can be simplified:
1) If your character surrenders as POW, you are "dead".
2) The character may just put down his weapon and raise his hands.
3) If you character surrenders, once the animation is done, you will be able to respawn again.

Would this fix it?

The MG suppression value is linked to the current blur effect.
ONce it's triggered the morale bleeds -1%

 

[Teq]

interesting idea.
one problem i see with gameplay is the extreme long time the player actually does nothing. Walking up the enemy spawn, recovering from blackout, gaining back moral, all this leaves the player sitting in front of the screen watching the countryside. Though im sure there are some who wouldnt mind, the broad majority wouldnt like it. (you probably say that this is meant to be for the realism fans, who wouldnt mind )

Yes, I beleive so, unless you dont stay close to your teammates.

Lets say you play a regular rifleman (Base morale 50%) moving in a fireteam of 5 men:
1 squadleader (+30%),
2 riflemen (+20)
1 SMG and MG (+20)
Total morale would then sum 120% as long as all members are within 50m.
This will greatly lessen morale effects and game will not be slowed down.

Other points i noticed:
-commander drawing on a map => unrealistic
hell, even the map for every player and GPS is unrealistic, get rid of that stuff alltogether, give only the commander a map and make the map available to other players only when they are in a certain range to the commander.

Agreed. very good idea! Lets say 5m from the squadleader to view the map?

-movement orders and teamchannel
unrealistic as long as it would only be audible in a certain distance.

yes totally agreed.

I posted an idea bout local speech with distance fade.
I dont know if it is possible.. Its a dream, Not a priority

If possible this would add a totally new dimmention to gaming as I know it.
It would also add to teamwork as you'll have to be very close to your mates to hear what they say.

Other Features:
-higher sway after you have been hit in an arm
-getting knocked down with non-lethal body shots and legshots
-permanent slowdown after legshots (also, if you make that too much, people will suicide and respawn, though you could fight that by taking away the suicide command or punish it with a long spawn time).

Thanks... Im adding theese to the first document if its ok?
If the mut/mod turns out to become real, I will cred all those who added their ideas and suggestion!

 

[Teapot]

This sounds awesome, we'd probably use this for EFO if it was tweakable!

 

[Heldentod]

you should think over about the ranges
an arty within 50m - 50% ? thats too far away, how about making it 30m ?

also about the medic part
if the soldiers hase a graze he can be bandaged by a medic IF a medic would be in the close surrounding and after it , the soldier has to live with the handicap of the wound(effect from specific region where the wound is (arm = more sway))
other shot wounds will not be healed

it

 

[Teq]

This sounds awesome, we'd probably use this for EFO if it was tweakable!

what is EFO?

Heldentod:
you should think over about the ranges
an arty within 50m - 50% ? thats too far away, how about making it 30m ?

hm yea sounds good. Arty falling 30m from character = -50% morale penalty.

also about the medic part
if the soldiers hase a graze he can be bandaged by a medic IF a medic would be in the close surrounding and after it , the soldier has to live with the handicap of the wound(effect from specific region where the wound is (arm = more sway))
other shot wounds will not be healed

Hm... Our Idea had a "tinybit" of unrealistic content for the sake of gameplay *ehermt*
But take it easy guys, we will research more on this topic.
I see we allready have had a few threads on it.

MEdic class (Not a current priority):
1) Comforts soldiers and add Morale bonus (+20)
2) Stops/stabilize bleeing (stops morale bleed also) >> 15 sec to perform
3) Releive pain (+5% morale pr injection) >> 10 sec to perform.
3) Heal wound 1 degree (optional) >> 15 sec to perform
----> IE a severe wound is healed to a state of a moderate wound.
----> And then the soldier must live the effects of that.
-----------------------------------------------------------


What do you think of this?

 

[Nestor Makhno]

Have you begun to look into the coding implications of what you suggest?

I am no expert but I reckon you would need a crack team of code-monkeys that you would have to regularly throw bananas to keep THEIR moral up to scratch over a pretty prolonged period.

 

[Witzig]

Just a thing concering the Unit Ratings,

The rating is more like
Elite < Veteran < Crack

Since Elite means very well trained, Veteran is Combat Hardened, and Crack are those East front Veterans fighting for more than 3 Years

 

[kabex]

A medic would break the mod IMO. It's highly unrealistic and arcade-y. Does not belong in this game, no matter how realistic you try to make him.