RO-Lyeskrovy has no allied bolts

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Vakichev

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 19, 2006
301
0
0
Moz said:
Please tell this to the dozens of camping germans on basovka.

I play rifleman all the time on basovka, and i see no difficulty in assaulting the russians so long as my team helps. Ususally those riflemen who camp don't have the skill it takes to go at it in close quarters with a rifle.
 

Monkwarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,144
2
0
It certainly stirs some emotions this one :cool:
Personally it's not my favorite, because I prefer a more tactical playstyle. It's a very nervous hectic map, just like many prefer it to be, so that's just a matter of taste.

Forcing some germans to play with bolts can be a bit frustrating tho. Mapdesign is made for smg's:

* the trenches don't have long "shooting paths" like in basovka
* wooden structures with slits in them favour smg's: they just have to spray the structure and some bullets will travel thru the slits killing the boltplayer who only has 1 bullet
* shooting field from the pillboxes is limited

What I miss is classes working together on sovjet side.
Part of this is mapdesign: it has so many alternative routes that real chokepoints can always be avoided. So securing them with more then 1 player is often useless. On the other hand: let's see how it plays in 2 weeks.

Like others suggested: it would be really cool if storming the first trenches could be prolonged. That part of the fighting could turn into something epic. Right now they are very quickly inside the trenches.

The use of smoke seems rather useless on this map.

Combining this with the last paragraph I do have a suggestion. It would be nice to make the first assault in more open terrain. That way a smokenade would really have a purpose. Make it so hard for the sovjets to cross that first part that they have to work together and use the smoke to storm the trenches.


* Zeg sassert ik dacht al dat ik wat zaakjes herkende, zoals van die juten stukjes stof her en der. Stiekemert ! Dit is vast een map waar jij thuis bent :p

Monk.
 

mp3killer(SLO)

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 26, 2006
47
2
0
Slovenija
Thank you TW, for this great map. It becomes one of my favourite in few minutes after playing it first time yesterday.
Map is really unique, with lots of exciting close combat, situable for pros & newbies!
 

Nifel

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2006
304
0
0
42
Norway
Hear hear! Great map and as a german I have zero problems with a kar98, be it in trenches or otherwise.
 

Apocalypse81

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 14, 2006
58
0
0
UK
there are plent of maps where the rifles are common place, one map without rifles for the russians aint so bad, nice to see the game simulate the smg squads.

Besides, i usually always play as a rifle man and due to the nature of the map i found myself changing to the an smg as a German. If i missed an on rushing russian i was a dead man, needed a more forgiving weapon!

I have to add though that i hope it doesn't encourage to many DOD run & gunners to start nade spamming the trenches etc. Overall though its a nice change of pace.

the first bit though where the russians attempt to storm the trenches is epic while it lasts
 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
9,797
890
0
55
Newton, NJ
Well, I haven't had a chance to play it alot, but it does seem like fun.

I think the weapon classes and loadouts are just fine. Every map does not need all or most of the classes available, and it is a pleasant and interesting change to see a Russian squad with just smgs (and there were those). Adapt and overcome, not all situations are the same. On the German side, I have no problem using the Kar, as difficult as it may be in this situation. Smoke Grenades are a nice and welcome addition to this map (and game). Thanks for keeping them just to commanders though, so they aren't over used.***

Eventually, if you really don't like the map, there are others map out there to play, and other players to fill your vacant slot.

The map really looks great, and the underground details are superb! Great job guys!!!

--------------------------------------

***They may initially be overused, just because they are new, but that should settle down when people know how and when to use them!
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
0
Denmark
Well, i for one love that there are no Bolties for the Reds, maybe now, we'll have an assault map where people will actually assault!

And as for thease comments about beeing a lone German rifleman against 5 Soviet SMG'ers.. why are you alone in the first place? that is not a good idea, especially not for a defending team, go get some backup.
 

Recce

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 31, 2006
605
0
0
One think to remember is that the Russians had a different doctrine for SMG compared to all the other armies. A lot of armies issued SMG weapons to small unit leaders, I think mainly for self-defence. The guy should be leading rather than shoot. In the post-war period, I know the British Army used to issue SMGs to artillary units, logistical units and the such, again for self-defence.

However, during WWII, the Russians would create large formations to front-line troops with armed only with SMGs. I don't have details on which units these were, where they were deployed, or how they units operated, independently or with other formations.
 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
9,797
890
0
55
Newton, NJ
Recce said:
.........

However, during WWII, the Russians would create large formations to front-line troops with armed only with SMGs. I don't have details on which units these were, where they were deployed, or how they units operated, independently or with other formations.

Exactly!
 

Monkwarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,144
2
0
Most in here know "realism" is not on top of my priority list.
Number 1 is joy in this game and for me that's playing the hardest role there is: bolting. So when there are no bolts I go play another map ;)

Monk.
 

Ralfst3r

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,043
293
0
37
The Netherlands
Monkwarrior said:
Most in here know "realism" is not on top of my priority list.
Number 1 is joy in this game and for me that's playing the hardest role there is: bolting. So when there are no bolts I go play another map ;)

Monk.

/me imitates a chicken

Are you a chicken or something, McFly?
 

Grobut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 1, 2006
3,623
1,310
0
Denmark
Recce said:
However, during WWII, the Russians would create large formations to front-line troops with armed only with SMGs. I don't have details on which units these were, where they were deployed, or how they units operated, independently or with other formations.
Indeed, it was a lesson learned durring the winter war with the Fin's, where the Fin's had great success with their SMG's.

That is the very reason for the PPD-40 and PPSH-41, they where pretty much designed to be issued like Assault Rifles of today (and using the 7.62x25mm, they had a good range compared to more traditional SMG designs), alongside self-loading rifles for ranged combat, bolt actions where supposed to have been phased out for the inevitable war with Germany, but, the reality was something different, the SVT-40 was not as reliable as hoped, and at the start of the war, SMG production was low, as the PPD-40 and first production PPSH's took time to make, the Mosin could not be replaced.

But as PPSH design was modified, it became very easy to mass produce, and was still high quality, there where an absolute abundance of the things! just look here: http://members.tripod.com/~bberg/88ppsh.jpg

Thats 88 PPSH-41's mounted in the bomb-bay of a TU-2 bomber, it was a night-interceptor experiment, the TU-2 would fly over German bombers, open its bomb-bay doors, and hose them over with SMG fire, in the end it was not a very good way to shoot down enemy bombers, but the experiment certainly shows how abundant the PPSH was.

EDIT: Ohh dear, the link is to a Tripod site.. well, just copy & paste it to your adress bar and it should load.
 

Kurtz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 14, 2006
401
0
0
Every time there is a good close-combat map people complain that it is too unrealistic, and has too much 'DOD run and gun.' Could it be that close-quarters fighting was in fact fast, chaotic, and brutal, and these maps are actually realistically representations of that environment? People need to accept that shooting enemies with long-range rifle fire was not the only type of engagement in WW2. Sorry, just a pet-peeve of mine. I can't wait to play this map. :D
 

Panzer Meyer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 26, 2005
759
31
0
North Cacilaci
I wonder if the soldiers in WWII screamed 'unreaslstic' or 'not fair' when a SMG sqaud assualted their possition.

It is fact, that the Russians and Germans put together SMG squads to lead an assault or as recon. When you are in close quarters, or know you will be and need an advantage, why the hell not put a sqaud of 10 men together, arm them with SMGs and send them in.This is what both sides did during the war and it IS REALISTIC. If you have a rifle, obviously try to hang back a bit.
 

Ralfst3r

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
3,043
293
0
37
The Netherlands
Panzer Meyer said:
I wonder if the soldiers in WWII screamed 'unreaslstic' or 'not fair' when a SMG sqaud assualted their possition.

It is fact, that the Russians and Germans put together SMG squads to lead an assault or as recon. When you are in close quarters, or know you will be and need an advantage, why the hell not put a sqaud of 10 men together, arm them with SMGs and send them in.This is what both sides did during the war and it IS REALISTIC. If you have a rifle, obviously try to hang back a bit.

Actually, the concept was developed during ww1 by the germans. That's where the term "stormtroopers" comes from :)