RO-Kriegstadt Beta 4

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BartBear

Active member
May 15, 2007
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Do NOT!

In my opinion this map is working like sub-mod for RO and 70 MB is the smallest size I can imagine (for a mod) ;) - good 7z compression makes it only 47 MB, and if you prefere ASI (exe) it is just a little bit bigger.

Taking it from redirect is ridiculous and most players with lower bandwidth would give it up... But we have websites with high speed connections, so there players should be directed. All we need is a promo!
I put an announcement in Steam community group about this map released, if PzDF would make an event like their all related to RO "FightNights", I gladly make announcement in this group as well.
I think only disadvantage may be not staying clear with WhiteList (I suppose; haven't checked), so some Server Admins resigns from adding it to their mapcycles... But we can do a request to friendly TWI about adding some .u files to WL.
 
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=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
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So, you think you haven't come across a server with enough players because of the download size?

I would say I agree more with BartBear. Getting it from a download site is simple. As I have previously stated, I use the .exe's from his site and the downloads are fast and easy. More promotion is probably needed, not reducing the size of the files. Honestly, this thread is the only way I found out about the Beta 4 Release (and later BartBear's site where he put a writeup on the front page)

Also, If a server has a decent redirect, the download that way isn't so bad. Especially for people who have already played and enjoyed previous versions, I am sure they will wait and download it that way. Has it been picked up by the TWB servers? Lots of people play on them...
 

{Core}Craig

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 2, 2008
756
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Hello Hobo, long time!


Also, if TWB server admins could add this to their 50 player server I would have a little white mess around my knee caps.

EDIT: Ask ROLadder to put an announcement on the front page . . perhaps i will bug Steven tonight.
 
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Floyd

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 19, 2006
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In all deference to those players with less than ideal bandwidth, I wouldn't lose that much sleep over it, EvilHobo. You might reduce some of the textures sizes, etc. just for sake of speed, but if a person is not willing to download server content he probably doesn't have the patience to play the map anyway. If he is absolutely hamstrung with puny bandwidth and he really wants to play the map, he'll find and download the client version (but you gotta watch file mis-match problems...hopefully he'll be wise enough to handle them). If he can't be bothered, then again, he probably won't enjoy the map anyway.

I can understand the new and casual RO player being turned off by having to download a lot of stuff for a game. I tire of downloading BS content, too. However, for God's sake people, this is Red Orchestra. The quality of content found on your typical RO server (maps, textures, vehicles) is light years ahead of the a lot of the crap server admins cram on their servers for CS, TF, etc.

And too, the majority of the RO servers I've played on have excellent redirect bandwidth capability. If they don't, shame on them.

I don't think its a map problem as much as it is a demographic shift of the typical RO player.
 
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EvilHobo

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 22, 2005
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Fair enough, but I already cut the sounds out of the map. Sure they added some flavor, but it's quite the extra download. I'll probably work on reducing the texture sizes, or tweaking the uniform colors. How would tan be for the Russians, or something else to help distinguish them? Tan w/ green helmets would be historically correct, but uh...it means more texture files floating around. More files floating around = more problems for server admins, and I really hate unleashing a really high amount of files every time I release a new version of the map.

Also, about 3D Audio: try as I might, there is too much going on in the RO code to easily make a mutator out of this. However, I can hard code it in to my new infantry units by reassigning their voice packs. This would be another Kriegstadt specific addition (as honestly, who is going to use my skins at this point?). We're pretty late in to the game's life cycle, so I guess I can let things go like this for now. What say you?

Since you guys are opposed to me removing a lot of stuff, I will leave it as is (it's less work for me to have to change it all). If I am to make the map come to the mainstream, I will need to make white-listable additions, and well, that's some trouble.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
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Dunno if anyone tried to do something like that, but maybe its possible to try and get it included in to the stock ro. Kriegstadt aint really my favourite kind of map either, but its undeniable that many people really love it and count it as one of their favourite maps. So a talk to the devs might be worth a try.

Is it possible btw to include the skin *.u files in the mylevel space of the map? Generally people do not only dislike big downloads they dislike loads of downloads as well.
 

Punji_Trap

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2009
3
0
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France (south)
wow wow wait a minute, do you realise that most people posting here, especially in EH threads, are :
- RO and EH mods/maps fans who spend most of their gaming time on RO and its forum ?
- only a tiny percent of RO players ? (and come on, no elitism bs "go-back-to-cod4-nubz" please)

In all deference to those players with less than ideal bandwidth, I wouldn't lose that much sleep over it, EvilHobo. You might reduce some of the textures sizes, etc. just for sake of speed, but if a person is not willing to download server content he probably doesn't have the patience to play the map anyway.
=> You can have truck load of will, but if the server :
- is not redirecting at all so downloading 6 Mo of texture took 15 min (took around 45+ min to download all the textures)
- AND it's the only playable (5+ players, not tank map only) server under 200 ms ping,
- AND (my case) the download stop at 81% all the time (tried 14 times) after a recent update
You're pretty much f*cked.

=> Btw why these textures are so heavy ? it's RO (not really very short range combat), Unreal Engine 2.5 (limited graphics) we're talking about.


If he is absolutely hamstrung with puny bandwidth and he really wants to play the map, he'll find and download the client version (but you gotta watch file mis-match problems...hopefully he'll be wise enough to handle them). If he can't be bothered, then again, he probably won't enjoy the map anyway.
=> so I tried to download all textures via websites (client version), took me more than 30 min to find most of them (no news about it, no dedicated website, well at least nothing referenced by Google), hopefuly I remembered there was a "Map Repository" on a PL website (red.orchestra.pl), and still, how can I know it's the latest version (mis-match problem) ?
There's no versions like "1.2" or "1.3" written on the file, so if a server is using an old one I'm pretty much doomed.

Trying to solve these problems took me more than a hour, and the server is still trying to upload me its textures (not the right version ?), and still blocking at 81%. I spent more time trying to get these damn files than playing with them, is it what you call playing Red Orchestra ?


I can understand the new and casual RO player being turned off by having to download a lot of stuff for a game. I tire of downloading BS content, too. However, for God's sake people, this is Red Orchestra. The quality of content found on your typical RO server (maps, textures, vehicles) is light years ahead of the a lot of the crap server admins cram on their servers for CS, TF, etc.
"quality of content" => excuse me but most that "content" (minus maps) is only kids adding SS uniforms or "historically correct" maniacs forgetting it's a game, a GAME (just look at the wound system, grenade throw or accuracy).

=> I'm playing RO for a long time, bought 3 other licences for my friends/family so we could play all together (back when there was more servers and less custom content bs), I'm a big fan of the game but I can't dedicate all my free time to Red Orchestra, first there's university and second there's other games (ex : Killing Floor, Zeno Clash, Penumbra serie, IGF games...). And I mostly stopped playing RO because everytime I tried to play on a server, always had to download loads of custom BS.

So yes, the "casual" RO player is quitting RO because some server admins think that adding more than 10 mo of custom content without calling it a mod (with a website, news, versions, installer and stuff like Mare Nostrum, Carpathian Cross, or Darkest Hour) is fully ok for a niche game.

And too, the majority of the RO servers I've played on have excellent redirect bandwidth capability. If they don't, shame on them.
=> shame on the 5 servers available for me. So what I'm gonna do ? find their website and ask them to remove their custom content or get a new server for redirections ?

I don't think its a map problem as much as it is a demographic shift of the typical RO player.
This is just leaving people with low bandwidth outside of RO, that won't guarantees at all you'll have cool player not TKing at spawn or rushing alone with the tank...

ps : sorry if I was rude in this message, but I think there's no respect without sincerity.

nb : nothing personnal Floyd, just needed to choose a post to reply to =D

Thanks for reading =)
 

Punji_Trap

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2009
3
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France (south)
it's getting funnier, the last server I tried to join had not updated their EH Winter uniform textures on the redirected server, so I wait 20 min for the download, then I get the nice "Congratulation ! You won a Mismatch Error !", talking about high quality content :D
 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
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About mismatch errors... very strange on occasion. I have gotten them when trying to join a server as well and in most cases that is exactly what they are. But, but, sometimes if I try to join the server a second or third time after getting the error, I get let in as if the error never existed in the first place. For whatever reason, I don't know but when it does happen, it is almost always with Kriegstadt and one specific server (forget the name at the moment)

I would say stick with the latest version you downloaded from red.orchestra.pl. That is what I have done.
 

EvilHobo

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 22, 2005
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Sounds more like server administration is the problem here. I made Kriegstadt Beta 4 with all new packages to prevent mismatches with previous versions. Lack of redirects leading to slow download times is also a server thing. While I can try to release a new version of the map with reduced content I am essentially releasing it to a dead market. The DH port is enjoying success due to a nearly non-existent need for additional custom content. The map is still about 18MB coming from a redirect server but that is substantially smaller than what players are faced with for RO.

So I'm sorry that the map has created such a problem but I will gladly look in to rectifying the issues should I have to. Maybe you read earlier but I do have some ideas on how to go about accomplishing this.

Thanks for the post though.
 

Shurek

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 21, 2006
857
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www.darkesthourgame.com
There's a DH port of Kriegstadt?:eek:Whhhat, really? Man, I need to step away from the tank map servers for awhile and see what else is going on in the community. Was this an officially sanctioned port?
 

BartBear

Active member
May 15, 2007
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Yes...It's called just "Berlin", and now it is in beta5a stage, as I follow...but first of all I don't know if it is approved by EH and second, who is the porter, so I haven't added it to RO.pl till now...so how it would be?:D
 

EvilHobo

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 22, 2005
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I ported it and so it counts as my official work. It is also a nice place to see some gameplay/design changes that could potentially make their way in to Kriegstadt Beta 5 but it is essentially built to balance with 40 players in DH. I threw historical accuracy out of the window though (Germans receive, for instance, tanks at key locations), something that I would not do with Kriegstadt. Someone complained that the weather conditions were inappropriate for the day, but again, goodbye to accuracy. The name change to Berlin was to reflect my departure from a lot of Kriegstadt theory.

For North American players you can find it on the CLOWNS Darkest Hour Playhouse.
For European players I sent it to Plattfuss of PzDF just this Monday and I believe it is running (although at 50 players it is clear that the map still lags :( runs great with 40 though).

I of course made no announcements as well, why bother? If people play it they play it.
 
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