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Rising Storm 2: State Of The Game September 2019

As you are most likely aware, Antimatter Games, who did the majority of development work on Rising Storm 2: Vietnam have been acquired by Toadman and announced they are working exclusively on a new title of their own. As such, they are no longer actively developing RS 2. While we work on the longer-term implications of that, there are a number of issues we are aware of and are actively working to fix for you in the coming weeks, including but not limited to:
  • Whitelist updates for new mods/mutators
  • Servers intermittently going deranked
  • “Black screen” during Campaign Mode under certain circumstances
More on this over the next few weeks. And as always, thank you for being fans of the Red Orchestra and Rising Storm franchise.
 

Comments

FixxeR

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Mar 11, 2006
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So, it's been over 3 months since the official announcement for a fix "in the coming weeks". Any news? Are you making progress?
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
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Finding the root cause of what is triggering these issues has proven to be more complicated then anticipated. Currently we are working on a build that we hope to release to the wild that includes some extra logging to help us pinpoint these issues.
 
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Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
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Finding the root cause of what is triggering these issues has proven to be more complicated then anticipated. Currently we are working on a build that we hope to release to the wild that includes some extra logging to help us pinpoint these issues.
We are hoping to have this test build out later this week (at the earliest). Keep in mind this test build ONLY has additional logging and not any attempt fixes in it compared to the live build.
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
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Does not look like we will have a test build ready by this week. Will update when I know more.
 

Beskar Mando

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Does not look like we will have a test build ready by this week. Will update when I know more.
Well seems I won the bet I had with a friend, which I forgot about until today, on if the patch would be ready before 2020. Another week isn't going to mean much to be honest, already been multiple months at this point.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't this de-ranking issue stem from patching the "exploit" which wasn't an exploit in any-sense of the word with mods/maps on servers?
Why not just revert the build back until a fix is found? It's been multiple months and unfortunately, server operators are bearing the brunt of this issue. The average player doesn't know what's going on, they assume they've been banned/kicked/voted off the server, randomly disconnecting, etc. The only way server operators have been able to resolve the issue is by *manually* changing the map, which is terrible. Especially for the campaign mode.

P.S.
Where's the RO merchandise at? :)
 

NorthDumpling

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As Beskar mentioned, I've been eagerly waiting for some RO/RS merchandise to show up maybe in first month after you guys announced its coming back, but there is no sign of it. I sincerely hope it will appear some day for known reasons in the future (new RO game as example).
 

Yoshiro

In Soviet Russia, Yoshiro is a cake
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The biggest obsticle here has been artist time. Most of the good design ideas we have had for RO/RS merchandise require new art (as the old art either isn't around any more or not high enough quality). When I have more artist time to work with I hope to add some things for fans to wear with pride.
 

Beskar Mando

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The biggest obsticle here has been artist time. Most of the good design ideas we have had for RO/RS merchandise require new art (as the old art either isn't around any more or not high enough quality). When I have more artist time to work with I hope to add some things for fans to wear with pride.
If you have any of the older merch designs, or hell even older merch I'm down to buy it.
 

Yoshiro

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We had a build ready, but it failed in QA as it looked like it was introducing a new issue. We are working on resolving that before we push it out.
 
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explosivedeer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 7, 2020
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I can understand why some things get lower prioritization or none at all this point considering the team picked up their bags... But I'm really depressed about the state of Skirmish and where it was left. I'm not desperate for new maps or content, rather a simple fix to the classes and support for customization of them (i.e the weapons they carry).

As it was left:
  1. the Vietnamese Machine Gunner can place trip mines. This was probably unintentional as these were removed all together a while back.
  2. The engineer for the ARVN (has access to C4). Probably unintentional (explosives were removed as well)
  3. None of the weapons added from the MP40 onward were integrated into Skirmish.
  4. This isn't a bug, but a change I question: the shotgun was taken off Pointman for the U.S. I can't really see this making sense considering mine detection requires you to be getting close. Pointman is almost entirely useless in Skirmish now.
  5. I can't speak for everyone but I know some - myself included - were sad to see the explosive weaponry removed from Skirmish including the trip mines.
I think this could be fixed in one go if server owners were given the ability to modify the carried weapons per class for Skirmish. In the cases where server owners go to town making changes to class loadouts, I'm more than willing to bet their server population would simply suffer.

I've brought my concerns about this to the Steam Forums and very briefly in the Discord, but I noticed this thread and wanted to ensure this was brought to light. Even if these don't get fixed...

I wanted to make it really clear that Skirmish was perhaps one of the best gamemodes I have played in the past 10 something years. The pacing, map size, player count (8v8), respawn mechanics, mixture of gun play and realistic kill times all came together to provide some of the most intense and competitive rounds I've ever had the joy of experiencing. There was a clear cut meta and those who picked up on early round positioning, nade spots, when to push/hold on these masterfully crafted maps were rewarded with an unbeatable sense of accomplishment that would keep you coming back for more.



A big shout out to the 69th ID: The Snack Bar Skirmish server that held on for so long before finally being put to rest due to the above issues.
 

NorthDumpling

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Skirmish was first of all a huge mistake for this game to pursue, since its died really soon after release and there wasnt much demand either. However plenty of times Skirmish maps were ran with 64 players. Stop caring about this garbage game mode and move on.
 
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explosivedeer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 7, 2020
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Skirmish was first of all a huge mistake for this game to pursue, since its died really soon after release and there wasnt much demand either. However plenty of times Skirmish maps were ran with 64 players. Stop caring about this garbage game mode and move on.
Can I ask why you're so emotionally charged in your response here? I can't figure why you think its a "mistake" or "garbage" mode. From the experience I had and the people I played with I came to an entirely different conclusion about the mode.

I personally find the larger 64 player modes to be uninteresting and often times a moshpit of chaos and inconsistent experiences. Especially in a game where one bullet from any gun can kill you. The meat grinder mentality got stale real fast. We've got our opinions but I'd like to know why you think Skirmish is bad.
 

NorthDumpling

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Can I ask why you're so emotionally charged in your response here? I can't figure why you think its a "mistake" or "garbage" mode. From the experience I had and the people I played with I came to an entirely different conclusion about the mode.

I personally find the larger 64 player modes to be uninteresting and often times a moshpit of chaos and inconsistent experiences. Especially in a game where one bullet from any gun can kill you. The meat grinder mentality got stale real fast. We've got our opinions but I'd like to know why you think Skirmish is bad.
I would say maps for 64 players are a meatgrinder and etc because of how RS2 was designed in comparison to its predecessors, even though you would like never noticed theese gameplay changes, while they dictate your experience. And perhaps if Vietnam war was fought differently compared to such conflicts as WWII and WWI, doesnt mean level design must be reworked for these purposes.
As a matter of fact though, level designers have spent their time on such a niche game mode, while they could've created more iconic and enjoyable maps for 64 players rather than create something unappealing for low amount of players. I havent seen any custom maps created for skirmish either.
Rules of marketing state "Produce what you can sell, not sell what you can produce" . Same applies here. And I dont see a reason to come up with excuses to shove this game mode into people's throats.
 

explosivedeer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 7, 2020
7
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I would say maps for 64 players are a meatgrinder and etc because of how RS2 was designed in comparison to its predecessors, even though you would like never noticed theese gameplay changes, while they dictate your experience. And perhaps if Vietnam war was fought differently compared to such conflicts as WWII and WWI, doesnt mean level design must be reworked for these purposes.
Not really sure what you're saying here... Are you suggesting that the "meat grinder" aspect is required to make the representation of the Vietnam war more authentic? Development decisions that determine where the line is between "authentic" versus "game" are probably the hardest to make and often splits the community. Some people want a game that plays really well, and in order to do that you have to sacrifice things that would make it more authentic... Health bars versus penetration effects, etc...

As a matter of fact though, level designers have spent their time on such a niche game mode, while they could've created more iconic and enjoyable maps for 64 players rather than create something unappealing for low amount of players.
Calling Skirmish niche is at best just another subjective argument. I'm willing to bet a lot of people never heard of or tried Skirmish in the first place. It wasn't a mode they advertised like they did with the larger 64 player ones. Skirmish certainly had less people playing it, but I don't think that necessarily justifies the discontinuation of it. People were still playing it. There was an interest, and as far as I'm concerned I'm still interested.

The numbers dropped in proportion to the rest of the game. Just look at where we're at now. I'm willing to bet it'd raise just the same.

I havent seen any custom maps created for skirmish either.
Apparently, in this day and age, anything that requires players to spend more than 50 seconds connecting to a server immediately turns them off. Our skirmish server, at one point, tried hosting the larger 64 player mode on custom maps, and suffered horrendously. We could only stay active when hosting default, shipped maps.

Just because no one is developing mods for something this shouldn't then justify the discontinuation of development... And well, if you played Skirmish you'd know there were custom maps in development, they just couldn't attract new players... (Like I mentioned earlier, because people were not joining when required to download stuff, we had to take the custom maps off)

Rules of marketing state "Produce what you can sell, not sell what you can produce" . Same applies here. And I dont see a reason to come up with excuses to shove this game mode into people's throats.
For this exact reason, the industry has fallen from grace. It used to be about developing things that were full of passion and innovation and to no ones surprise there was tons of success in the risks taken. Now we have cookie cutter, copy paste content that attempts to ensure people buy it up. It would seem the importance of marketing has surpassed that of development.

while they could've created more iconic and enjoyable maps for 64 players rather than create something unappealing for low amount of players.
I think this is by far the most conflicting justification... Modding easily solves this. I think the mapping contests were great examples of why it can. I'm not asking for continued improvements / development for Skirmish. I'm asking for more freedom to mod.
 

Beskar Mando

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Can I ask why you're so emotionally charged in your response here? I can't figure why you think its a "mistake" or "garbage" mode. From the experience I had and the people I played with I came to an entirely different conclusion about the mode.

I personally find the larger 64 player modes to be uninteresting and often times a moshpit of chaos and inconsistent experiences. Especially in a game where one bullet from any gun can kill you. The meat grinder mentality got stale real fast. We've got our opinions but I'd like to know why you think Skirmish is bad.
I think what dumpling was trying to say was that it's a niche game mode that didn't fit well with the existing franchise. I'd honestly agree, it's fun to screw around on with friends. But it's not the bread and butter of the series so to speak. The same thing occurred with FireFight, Search and Destroy, and CountDown - they all died. I am pretty biased here, in saying that I don't enjoy Skirmish in of itself, however, I also don't like Rising Storm 2, it's a poorly designed game, exacerbated with random changes out of nowhere to make it even worse. If I had to play with some friends I'd probably choose skirmish just because it's a smaller game mode which I felt is more enjoyable with a bunch of friends filling up both teams, not because it's better than other game modes.
 

explosivedeer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 7, 2020
7
0
1
If I had to play with some friends I'd probably choose skirmish just because it's a smaller game mode which I felt is more enjoyable with a bunch of friends filling up both teams, not because it's better than other game modes.
This speaks to the mode's potential for success and why I think its worth giving server owners the power to fix the problems on their own if continued development is no longer possible or "worth the time." I can see why Skirmish is different from the standard scheme of things within the series, it isn't focused on large scale combat, but I still don't think that can justify the elimination of it.

Part of what made me lose interest in the larger 64 count modes was the lack of vehicles. Helicopters? Cool. Tanks...? Gone! Red Orchestra was perhaps the only series to ever introduce fully modeled tank interiors with crew animations and a seat changing system that was enjoyable and balanced and I sincerely miss that. From there I knew infantry would be the focus, and Skirmish scratched that itch without putting me in a meat grinder with no armor to slow it down a bit.
 

NorthDumpling

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I think this is by far the most conflicting justification... Modding easily solves this. I think the mapping contests were great examples of why it can. I'm not asking for continued improvements / development for Skirmish. I'm asking for more freedom to mod.
And this is why game developers must never rely on modders. Its a good indicator of alive and well community, sure, but it creates such a backlash, which would rather destroy community, rather than make it engage together.
 

Beskar Mando

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The bottom line is we're likely to get a patch sometime this year, and that will be the final update to the game. I sincerely doubt Tripwire will do much if anything at all aside from fixing the serious server related issues. The freedom to mod still exists and always has. Nothing is holding anyone back from revitalizing skirmish, they just have to make a mutator for the game. I think what dumpling was trying to say is that the amount of players who play skirmish versus other gamemodes does not and will not warrant any of the non-existent development time left in this game's lifespan. There are far more important things to worry about getting fixed than skirmish. Even if the changes were simple weapon and equipment removal, despite that taking literally less than 20 lines of code to change. As much as I would love to see some sort of miracle in the next couple months where the game is fixed and made to the standards of the series, it won't be. For me I am at a loss as to what to fill the void of the RO series. It had a really nice balance of action and teamplay. Sandstorm is pretty good, in fact in someways it is better. But the team size is too small, and the map design is too cluttered. I think they hit the mark with RO2. Games like Squad, Post Scriptum, Hell Let Loose don't interest me because of the sheer amount of inactivity/boredom and total reliance on how a game plays out. If they ever make another game in the series, I sincerley hope they don't go this route, but this seems to be the new style of gameplay for the coming years.
 
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explosivedeer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 7, 2020
7
0
1
And this is why game developers must never rely on modders. Its a good indicator of alive and well community, sure, but it creates such a backlash, which would rather destroy community, rather than make it engage together.
Right, and I don't ever suggest they do, but considering they've officially decided to cut support for the game opening it up isn't all that bad of an idea. I figure we wouldn't even have Rising Storm if Tripwire had a different stance on modding with the previous titles.

The freedom to mod still exists and always has. Nothing is holding anyone back from revitalizing skirmish, they just have to make a mutator for the game.
Except that still requires people to download files when connecting to the server, and if I've learned anything over the years, 2014 was the last year before the average gamer became overwhelmingly intolerant and blessed the communities with an attention span no longer than 5 minutes.

With that being said I still can't find reason to justify the exclusion of something to help and not even necessarily directly fix Skirmish. Whats the point in releasing a final patch aimed at fixing things as an effort to retain a playerbase while excluding things that would only benefit that cause. I preferred Skirmish overwhelmingly to the larger modes, but because Skirmish was still active, during down times I would join larger modes. Now that Skirmish is gone I've just uninstalled the game entirely...

I'm in the same boat in that I cannot find something to fill the void I'm left with. The gamemode and its rules were so unbelievably appealing and nothing else in this money craved industry comes close. Games like Hell Let Loose, Squad, and Post Scriptum suffer from scope creep that simply overwhelmed their production efforts. With time I can see them being incredible games, but when I compare them to games prior like Battlefield 1942, the mod FH1942, BF2 and its expansions, Forgotten Hope 2, the Red Orchestra titles... It becomes pretty evident that these new titles lack gameplay features that fill those long moments of inactivity.