Riot Shield?

[Soanos]

Hmm... I can see this shield might have some uses. One handed melee or pistols only for this one, though, I am thinking. And inability to run so he would have to rely on tanking the doorways with his shield. However, it should be implemented in such a way that players could not just back into a corner and just tape down the mouse button while reading a book. In my opinion it shouldn't be a complete immunity to damage, but rather a damage mitigation bonus. Also, it should have some serious drawbacks such as increased damage from behind and massive weight due to it's huge size.

My idea (needs tweaking I am sure)

Riot shield:
30% Damage reduction to Crawler leap attacks
20% Melee damage reduction
15% Resistance to Bloat Bile
5% Chance to block melee attack
15% Reduced Patriarch Chaingun and Rocket damage
30% Increased damage received from behind
Can only use pistol and knife type weapons
Can only walk, negates run speed bonuses
Can't jump
Can't use the Syringe
Negates Berserker attack speed bonus and reduces melee attack speed by 20%
Negates all weapon reload speed bonuses and reduces reload speed by 25% (has to do one-handed reload which is difficult)
Has no protection against Siren Scream Attack
Can't put the shield away so can't knife-run (however, can drop it when knife or 9mm equipped)
Weight: 11 blocks (it is a huge item afterall)
Price:

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Hmm... I can see this shield might have some uses. One handed melee or pistols only for this one, though, I am thinking. And inability to run so he would have to rely on tanking the doorways with his shield. However, it should be implemented in such a way that players could not just back into a corner and just tape down the mouse button while reading a book. In my opinion it shouldn't be a complete immunity to damage, but rather a damage mitigation bonus. Also, it should have some serious drawbacks such as increased damage from behind and massive weight due to it's huge size.

My idea (needs tweaking I am sure)

Riot shield:
30% Damage reduction to Crawler leap attacks
20% Melee damage reduction
15% Resistance to Bloat Bile
5% Chance to block melee attack
15% Reduced Patriarch Chaingun and Rocket damage
30% Increased damage received from behind
Can only use pistol and knife type weapons
Can only walk, negates run speed bonuses
Can't jump
Can't use the Syringe
Negates Berserker attack speed bonus and reduces melee attack speed by 20%
Negates all weapon reload speed bonuses and reduces reload speed by 25% (has to do one-handed reload which is difficult)
Has no protection against Siren Scream Attack
Can't put the shield away so can't knife-run (however, can drop it when knife or 9mm equipped)
Weight: 11 blocks (it is a huge item afterall)
Price:

 

[shaqism]

YouTube - 300 Insane Fight Scene
Yay for riot shields ^.^

 

[omarfw]

chainsaws are annoying and loud. and they're not as effective at holding back big stuff.

 

[shadowwill]

i also thought a riot shield would be cool, still think it.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

chainsaws are annoying and loud. and they're not as effective at holding back big stuff.

The first statement is utterly subjective. You may think they're annoying and loud. Most zerkers think they're incredibly badass.

The second statement is WRONG WRONG WRONG (assuming "big stuff" refers to scrakes and fleshpounds). In fact, I've seldom encountered a more wrong statement. A chainsaw is effectively godmode against scrakes. The new patch did nothing to rectify their stunlock in melee. Any zerker with a chainsaw who gets killed by a scrake should be laughed off the server. With the stunlock and chainsaw alt fire, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO LOSE to a scrake! Just walk up to it, hit it 3 times with the alt fire, and it dies without even touching you... Even if I had 1 health and 0 armor I would still gladly take on 3 scrakes without even thinking about it.

A chainsaw also makes it laughably easy to decapitate flesh pounds. Once its head comes off, even a flesh pound isn't much of a threat. The first couple of times you take out a 12 foot pissed off killing machine by going toe to toe with it and RIPPING ITS ****ING HEAD OFF, you'll feel like god on earth. After 10 times or so you'll realize how easy it is, but you'll still feel kinda badass simply because it's a chainsaw.

 

[Sheezwack]

Of course if you are using the chainsaw then the sound wont bother you as much, but in most cases the sound can really annoy the rest of the team. Most people I have played with find the sound incredibly annoying, especially considering it is often used non-stop.

Anyhow if you add a shield in you might find other weapons need tweaking as well. Personally I have never enjoyed chainsaws and would use a riot shield even if it was less effective.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

Depending on how it was implemented and whether or not it's useful, I might use the shield. I like the shield and sword gimmick more than a chainsaw, but if it's useless, I'd stick with the chainsaw.

 

[shaqism]

I don't see the use of a shield in kf, i just don't. But It couldn't hurt being added some people might like it

 

[Soanos]

This suggestion would make the shield utterly useless and inferior in every conceivable way to the chainsaw zerkers already have... Chainsaw vs shield + machete/ax should be a style difference: the chainsaw zerker rips the zed's head off before it attacks him; the shield zerker lets the zed attack him and doesn't give a damn, THEN he cuts its head off.

Let's see, on to your idea:
It doesn't reduce your damage output; it negates it. It also kills your run speed and makes you take extra damage from flanking mobs you aren't fast enough to avoid. You can't use a syringe which instantly makes this a non-option for medics. You can't bunny hop in this game so the only use for jumping is to get over obstacles and make areas of the map accesible. If you can't move to where the rest of the team is, you're just a liability, and frankly, since any and all zeds can cross obstacles, the fact that you can't is a bit strange. Also, the bonuses you specify don't do jack. 20% melee reduction is what you get from zerker lvl5 and it doesn't hold up against anything remotely threatening even on normal. Weight should be done so that the combined weight of the shield and the melee weapon in your hand is slightly more than a chainsaw, not so that the shield itself weighs more than the chainsaw... To add insult to injury, this PoS costs more than a chainsaw AND armor. A shield should definitely not cost more than the top tier melee weapon (ie less than or equal to 1000). I'm thinking between 750 and 1000 is ok depending on how useful the thing turns out to be in game. For all these downsides, for the thing to be even remotely useful the damage reduction would need to be at least 70%.

I was thinking this to be used for tanking several specimens indoors with a well-coordinated TEAM, not for "1337 5010 |<171n6 0wn463 101!!111" in solo mode. This would be purely for tanking doorways and chokepoints when those flimsy cardboard doors can no longer take the beating from the "big boys".

And I DID say the suggestion could be tweaked. I did consider the weight. The riot shield I thought about was the riot shield used in "Tom Clancy's Las Vegas 2". It is a massive and heavy wall of metal and composites with a thick plexiglass window. It's size is about a square meter... Honestly, you want to be able to put it into your back pocket and be carrying 2 weapons? You can't even use anything but machete or maybe a handcannon. Come on, you need to sacrifice damage output for damage absorption.
I guess the price could be cut back a little, let's say

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

I was thinking this to be used for tanking several specimens indoors with a well-coordinated TEAM, not for "1337 5010 |<171n6 0wn463 101!!111" in solo mode. This would be purely for tanking doorways and chokepoints when those flimsy cardboard doors can no longer take the beating from the "big boys".

And I DID say the suggestion could be tweaked. I did consider the weight. The riot shield I thought about was the riot shield used in "Tom Clancy's Las Vegas 2". It is a massive and heavy wall of metal and composites with a thick plexiglass window. It's size is about a square meter... Honestly, you want to be able to put it into your back pocket and be carrying 2 weapons? You can't even use anything but machete or maybe a handcannon. Come on, you need to sacrifice damage output for damage absorption.
I guess the price could be cut back a little, let's say

 

[Soanos]

The problem is it's not even useful in a team if you have a berserker, who'd be the only one logically interested in a shield. A berserker with a chainsaw and body armor is already a moving wall (that moves as fast as the rest of the team), prevents anything but sirens from getting past him, takes considerable punishment from anything short of a fleshpound, can adapt to most situations, and KILLS zeds when they slam into his wall of spinning steel.

Your shield produces a guy who slows down the entire team while they wait for your slow ***, reduces a primary damage dealer to 0 damage which really hurts on the harder difficulties when you realize you have the firepower of a 5 man team but the enemy scales to 6 man team, is only even remotely useful in one situation, and doesn't even add that much more protection than a high level zerker perk and doesn't do jack against the berserker's most dangerous enemy (siren).

What a long sentence. "My" shield? Okay, let's call it a "My" shield then. Feel free to design a better one.
You do realise its designed purpose? To be able to hold a doorway with medic support...

Yes, a standing wall that has the power of blocking a doorway with some backup.
You do realise the specimens queue up nicely behind the doors where
they are easy pickings for everyone else?
If they can't get to you trough it so the player in question would be taking less damage.
The guys behind the shield wielding zerker should be busy unloading their guns to the faces of the specimens in front of the said shield.

Also, sirens are something the sharpshooter should be taking out, not the berserker.

In order for something with this many downsides to ever be used, it would have to effectively be godmode against any attack from the front barring a fleshpound...

Well, it would be unfair to give the berserker a "god mode" without any downsides?
I think it would only be fair to cut down the damage output.

As for the shield weight, an average metal shield with a viewport weighs around 20-25 pounds (http://www.rbrtactical.com/n/site_prod.php?product=25). Plastic ones are around 5-10 but I don't think we're talking about those (http://www.bulletproofme.com/Riot-Shields.htm). For comparison, the M249 light machine gun weighs 22 pounds (metal shield) and the M16 weighs 9 pounds (plastic shield). And yes I absolutely expect a physically fit man to be able to hold a 20 pound shield on his arm, a pistol in his holster, and a machete somewhere on his person. This is probably the max that should happen for game balance. In real life I would also expect him to have a rifle or shotgun slung on his back. Consider that the average soldier carries 80 or more pounds of gear with him into combat and that 20 pound shield starts looking really light (if you have a shield you're probably either swat or riot police so you wouldn't be lugging the 80 pounds soldiers do)...

Well, let's think that "weight" limitation as "space" limitation for a moment instead.
I was mainly suggesting the heavy "weight" because it takes a lot of space.
Where would you put the shield when you want to use the shotgun?
You would have to discard it or let someone else do the shooting.
"I think I shall just put this thing on my back and shoot with my shotgun"-strategy
would not work in such a situation either because it does take some time to put it away and use it again.
Do special forces have a secret elite force of 3-armed supersoldiers?
You are more than welcome to try jumping with the amount of equipment you just described there. It will be quite difficult.
I know this game is not supposed to be a real-life simulation of combat against zombies,
so let's treat it as such. I was more thinking of some game balance issues that might arise
when making the shield too powerful.

Finally, yes of course you have to sacrifice damage output for damage absorption. That's why you aren't dual wielding a shield and a chainsaw... aside from the sheer stupidity of it. It's sacrificing everything else for a tiny bit of damage absorption that concerns me.

20% is quite a bit IMO. And I didn't say anything about negating berserker perk-related damage absorbtion. Of course it would be still there. But I guess it could have increased benefit on higher perk levels to reflect the increased difficulty level.

 

[Old Man {OMG}]

Honestly given that some of the player models are indisputably riot police (it even says so in the background), it would be unrealistic NOT to have riot shields...

And how is standing in a doorway with a shield that much worse than standing in a doorway with a chainsaw? Nowadays I stand in the doorway mowing down everything that has a head while a couple guys behind me drop anything I miss. Nothing smaller than a fleshpound gets past a zerker in a doorway anyway (except sirens).

I'd love to have a riot shield. Combine with machete for the roman legionnaire feel, with a fire ax for the viking berserker gimmick, or (please implement!) spear (more likely sharpened pool cue or something but whatever) for the legendary THIS IS SPARTA!!!! Bonus points for a kick attack

what we need is a police batton, or however you spell it. you know, the clubs? maybe it would stun the zombies and deal damage, give them the *limbo lean backwards* animation that the gorefast has when you miss a axe decapitation on suicidal.

 

[k_murdah]

Hm

Hm

Honestly the only thing I see the shield being much more useful than a chainsaw for is against the patriarch, because getting stuck out in the open against him really sucks. Not that only really being useful against the pat is a bad thing..

The only thing is I kind of assume the strength of him, the fire power of his chain gun and rockets would probably eat up even a metal shield in a hurry. I think someone suggested giving the shield health or something, makes it less useful but less cheesy too.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

What a long sentence. "My" shield? Okay, let's call it a "My" shield then. Feel free to design a better one.

Well it was your idea so I attributed it to you. Give credit where credit is due

You do realise its designed purpose? To be able to hold a doorway with medic support...

Yes, a standing wall that has the power of blocking a doorway with some backup.
You do realise the specimens queue up nicely behind the doors where
they are easy pickings for everyone else?
If they can't get to you trough it so the player in question would be taking less damage.
The guys behind the shield wielding zerker should be busy unloading their guns to the faces of the specimens in front of the said shield.

Here's the problem. The one case where the shield is useful... can probably be better served by a chainsaw zerker anyway. Don't want anything getting through a doorway? Stick a guy with a chainsaw and body armor in it and watch all the zombies run into his chainsaw like suicidal romans.
Also, sirens are something the sharpshooter should be taking out, not the berserker. Clots/gorefasts/bloats get instantly decapitated, scrakes die after 3 alt fire slashes without even touching him, and flesh pounds get their heads ripped off. Failing that, the zerker can sit there (with body armor) and tank the hits while the guys behind him unload. With a competent team he shouldnt be taking hits for more than a few seconds. Crawlers and sirens are other people's business. This comes with the benefit of not putting a gigantic shield hitbox in the doorway for your team to shoot around...

Also, sirens are something the sharpshooter should be taking out, not the berserker.

Indeed, but while I'm utterly powerless to do anything about them I would at least hope I get some defense against them.

Well, it would be unfair to give the berserker a "god mode" without any downsides?
I think it would only be fair to cut down the damage output.

Read the sentence again. I put in the "In order for something with this many downsides to ever be used" qualifier. This means EITHER leave the downsides in and make me invincible OR take some of the downsides out and make me just tougher than normal. This does NOT mean take the downsides out AND make me god. You are already limiting damage output by not letting the guy take a chainsaw/bullpup/shotgun/crossbow/etc... The reload speed and melee attack speed modifiers just seem excessive. And the attack from behind modifiers? Why is this? A guy with a shield facing the opposite way is the same as a guy with no shield facing the opposite way... If you're getting attacked from behind, you have already lost the protection of the shield <-- THIS is your modifier. You don't need to add an additional modifier on top of that... No syringe? What does it take 2 hands now ? He already does no damage, why can't he heal himself? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming "pistol and knife weapons" include the machete and handcannon... Personally I think the fire ax should be included simply because vikings (a BERSERKER with an AX and SHIELD... Vahalla awaits me!) are awesome

Well, let's think that "weight" limitation as "space" limitation for a moment instead.
I was mainly suggesting the heavy "weight" because it takes a lot of space.
Where would you put the shield when you want to use the shotgun?
You would have to discard it or let someone else do the shooting.
"I think I shall just put this thing on my back and shoot with my shotgun"-strategy
would not work in such a situation either because it does take some time to put it away and use it again.
Do special forces have a secret elite force of 3-armed supersoldiers?
You are more than welcome to try jumping with the amount of equipment you just described there. It will be quite difficult.

I only said carry... I never said you would be USING the shield and the shotgun/rifle at the same time. I also said "This [the shield, handcannon, and machete from the previous sentence] is probably the max that should happen for game balance." So no I don't really think you need to be able to carry a shotgun and a shield at the same time, much less use both of them... In real life though, most shields let you put two hands on the weapon and some come with a weapon brace. And I have actually ran around and jumped with two separate riot shields on multiple occasions (for one riot shield, the other was a one time thing). One was at a military surplus store and it was the heavy, metal kind (20 pounds). It wasn't really that hard to move around with or jump with. More importantly, if I had that beast on my arm, I would DEFINITELY expect more than a 20% damage reduction if a one armed freak hit me with a cleaver The other was at an indoor airsoft place owned by a former swat officer (so yes they were real swat issue riot shields... a bit old though so they weigh more than the current 5-10 pound ones). These were the plastic shields and weighed about 12-13 ish pounds. I had absolutely no problem keeping up with the rest of my team and I'm an overweight computer nerd Completely off topic, but the particular shield I had was modded with U shaped cutouts in the side and top right (left handed shield) for use as firing ports (kinda like the cutouts in Brad Pitt's shield in Troy for his spear). If you're walking down a hall with the shield you stick your gun through the side port for firing support (and so you don't have to carry your gun one handed all the time, my AK is 10 pounds ). If you need to bunker down, you kneel down, set the shield on the ground (at a crouch it covers you head to toe), and stick your gun through the top firing port to lay down suppressive fire. It was really neat but unconventional as hell.

Alright enough digression.

20% is quite a bit IMO. And I didn't say anything about negating berserker perk-related damage absorbtion. Of course it would be still there. But I guess it could have increased benefit on higher perk levels to reflect the increased difficulty level.

20% sounds like a lot on paper. Then you hit level 5, take it for a spin, and realize it's absolutely useless... Against crawlers (it's about a 1 point damage reduction yay!), clots (it's also a 1 point damage reduction but in this case it's moot because they'll never even touch you), gorefasts (slightly more impressive damage reduction, still won't make a difference in the long run though, and they'll never touch you because you have a chainsaw and will insta-decapitate them before they land a hit), scrakes (the 20% reduction might actually help against this guy... if he could touch you; you have a chainsaw though so he never will), stalkers (1 point damage reduction... and of course they'll never touch you... sometimes they just run into the chainsaw and die before you even realize they're there...) and bloats (at level 5 you get something like 80% resistance to these guys which already reduces their effect to pretty much nil) you don't need it. Sirens it doesn't really help. It's not enough so that you can charge in and rip her head off without taking massive damage and if you stay back and shoot her it's not doing anything for you (more than one siren is suicide). Fleshpounds... it just doesn't help. If you can rip its head off you don't need it. If you can't and are forced into a direct toe to toe hack and slash it's effect is negligible at best. The enemies in this game generally fall into two categories: very low damage where your reduction reduces damage by 1 or 2 points and insanely high damage where your reduction won't do **** because the enemy will still rip you to pieces.

 

[omarfw]

Here's the problem. The one case where the shield is useful... can probably be better served by a chainsaw zerker anyway. Don't want anything getting through a doorway? Stick a guy with a chainsaw and body armor in it and watch all the zombies run into his chainsaw like suicidal romans.

By this logic the machete is useless cuz the axe does it's job more effectively. Then why is it in the game? Just because something may not have a unique job that is better at it then anything doesn't mean you shouldn't add it. The whole shield idea is more about making KF more cool to play then winning.

Yes, chainsaw zerkers probly could do the job more effectively, but what about us medics and so forth? what if WE want to barricade a door but don't have enough melee damage to do it with a chainsaw? even more so, what if we can't afford a chainsaw at the time?

Saying that this is pointless cuz zerkers do it better is invalid because there is not always a zerker playing 100% of the time whereas there are always players playing and at any given time one of those players may want to barricade a door but not have to switch classes and save up for a chainsaw to do so.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

By this logic the machete is useless cuz the axe does it's job more effectively. Then why is it in the game? Just because something may not have a unique job that is better at it then anything doesn't mean you shouldn't add it. The whole shield idea is more about making KF more cool to play then winning.

Actually once you hit lvl 3 the differences between the machete and the ax start to blur. Lvl 4 and 5 basically make the two the same weapon with a different model (same range, same run speed, ax swings fast enough to be a machete, machete does enough damage to be an ax). At that point, which you choose comes down to which weapon looks cooler in your opinion (alright the ax costs 50 pounds more and weighs 1 more block but the cases where that will effect your purchasing decision are nearly nonexistant). Before level 4 the machete is better for cutting down mobs of clots and gorefasts while the ax is better for the bigger targets. Quite frankly, I've found the machete to be superior to the ax because in the early stages clots and gorefasts are most of what you have to worry about. By the time scrakes start showing up you should already have a chainsaw. Even with the chainsaw, some people prefer just to run around with a machete/ax because it's almost as good at cutting up mobs and you run a helluva lot faster (I'm about 90% sure the run speed boost doesn't apply to the chainsaw for some reason...).

Yes, chainsaw zerkers probly could do the job more effectively, but what about us medics and so forth? what if WE want to barricade a door but don't have enough melee damage to do it with a chainsaw? even more so, what if we can't afford a chainsaw at the time?

Saying that this is pointless cuz zerkers do it better is invalid because there is not always a zerker playing 100% of the time whereas there are always players playing and at any given time one of those players may want to barricade a door but not have to switch classes and save up for a chainsaw to do so.

Well if you can't afford a chainsaw you sure as hell can't afford something that costs as much as a chainsaw and body armor... I believe your updated price was 1250? A chainsaw is 1000, body armor is 300...

And if you're a medic and want to barricade the door... well you shouldn't. If you're a medic you get someone else to barricade the door and heal him. You especially don't pick up any item that negates 2 of the 3 advantages your class gives you: run speed and healing.

I like Laofkazi's shield more because it gives the shield dude more versatility. It makes the shield + machete vs chainsaw option more about style and cool factor than "option a will make me win way more than option b". It also lets you pull off a wicked double zerker (shield and chainsaw) or zerker + medic (medic with shield, zerker with chainsaw) combo to lock down a door/hallway against any enemy... with extreme prejudice *evil smile*. Shield guy holds the shield in the center but leaves a small gap between the shield and the wall/door. Zeds walk up to shield guy, shield guy bashes them and sends them back a bit. Chainsaw man jumps through the gap and chainsaws zeds while they're stunned and then gets back behind the shield. Alternatively they can just let the zeds slam into the shield wall before chainsaw man clear them off. Watch the phalanx scene from 300 again: persians run into shield wall, shield wall bashes persians, spears come out and start mowing down persians while they're getting knocked back and stunned. If shield guy's shield gets knocked back (read the op for his shield mechanic to understand what I'm talking about), he steps back behind chainsaw man to recover the shield while chainsaw man steps forward to cover him. While the shield is recovering shield guy whips out his syringe and heals any damage chainsaw man is taking. When the shield is back in position shield guy goes back to the front and starts tanking again.

What makes this idea cool is that the shield doesn't reduce damage, it negates it while it's in position but gets knocked aside (not out of the guy's hands, just to his side) when it takes too much damage. If shield guy times it correctly, he never needs to be healed and can still hit back with the full offensive potential of his machete (works better if shield guy is a zerker) to support chainsaw man who provides the bulk of the offensive striking power. When the shield does get knocked back, chainsaw man with his armor and chainsaw can easily tank the hits (unlike a support/firebug/whatever which is why this works better with a chainsaw man than with a gunner) while shield guy recovers. This works especially well if shield guy heals chainsaw man (works better if shield guy is a medic). Shield guy can also keep up with chainsaw man if the duo feels the need to move. This also provides an efficient advance down the hall force that advances at full speed instead of at a crawl.

Laofkazi's shield also lets you operate solo. You won't be nearly as effective as if you had a partner to pile on the pain while you shrug it off, but it's possible. It's also not a clear cut case of chainsaw > shield or shield > chainsaw. It's an OPTION based on STYLE and PREFERENCE. Your shield is a clear cut case of chainsaw >>> shield.

 

[Kogitsune]

If there was a shield, I'd like to see irons bring the shield up in front of you like a tower shield, and then when you push against a normal clone, they are pushed back by you.

Doing so would make the shield extremely useful for getting out of a tight situation ( you got yourself cornered, they flanked you, etc ).

While doing this, however, the shield takes damage when it is hit or you ram a clone with it. After so much damage, the shield shatters / breaks and you lose it. My luck, I'd be in the middle of plowing through some gorefasts and they'd break it and then molest me with their knife arms.

 

[omarfw]

Laofkazi's shield also lets you operate solo. You won't be nearly as effective as if you had a partner to pile on the pain while you shrug it off, but it's possible. It's also not a clear cut case of chainsaw > shield or shield > chainsaw. It's an OPTION based on STYLE and PREFERENCE. Your shield is a clear cut case of chainsaw >>> shield.

which is why i don't like laoofkazi's idea. it's designed for people who go off and abandon their team. those people are dicks. this is a team based game and im not gonna support something that allows people to go off and solo even more.

 

[w00tm0ng3r]

^Let's be perfectly honest here, if your aim is to go rambo on some zombies, you do it with a chainsaw. You don't take a shield and a machete and that's it. You take up your god machine of death and destruction, strap on some armor, and grab either a bullpup or a handcannon for backup. This loadout lets you quickly, efficiently, and with minimum expenditure of ammo (aka money) rape every enemy in the game except the patriarch himself and lets you do it all by yourself.

Clots/gorefasts/stalkers? Chainsaw primary fire to the face for instant decapitation (bullpup the stalkers if you're trying to level commando on the side). Bloats/crawlers/sirens? Pull out the bullpup/deagle and shoot them up (bloats can be safely chainsawed once you hit a sufficient level but you'll probably shoot them just out of habit anyway). Scrake? Chainsaw alt fire, 3 slashes and he goes down. You suck terribly if he manages to land even one hit on you. Flesh pound? Chainsaw to the face rips his head off. The hardest thing about this is overcoming your fear of going toe to toe with him. Actually doing it is laughably easy. Remember Troy the movie?
"Your opponent is the biggest man I've ever seen... I wouldn't want to fight him" -messenger boy
"That's why no one will remember your name."- Achilles 2 minutes before effortlessly killing his oponent with one well placed blow (guess who Achilles is in this analogy? extra points if you can figure out the fleshpound too )
Run into trouble? Half the time the only reason you're having difficulties is that you've forgotten you have grenades... The only thing that will give you trouble is the patriarch (this is the other half of the time by the way).
Until then you can do whatever the hell you want to with near impunity.

Adding Laofkazi's shield will not promote ramboing. Adding his shield will give team oriented zerkers an option that sacrifices pure rambo ability for a good deal more synergy with the other guys on the team. You're an idiot if you try to go rambo with a shield and machete with nothing for backup and you deserve everything that's coming.