Rifleman upgrade.
- Thread starter Colt .45 killer
- Start date
Why ? For one it would be pretty darn unrealistic seeing as only a minute number of Mauser rifles in German service were chambered in anything other than 7.92x57mm. A very few were chambered in 7x57, 8x68 & 6.5x55mm, and these were originally civilian hunting rifles brought into service mainly by the Waffen SS.
Also what would the point of different caliber Mausers be? It wouldn't carry any advantages with it, the 7.92x57 chambered K98k already being one of the most accurate bolt action rifles in the world back then, along with Swiss K31 & Swedish M96. And the 7.92x57 cartridge was probably the most capable std. rifle chambering back then, considering the bullet types used and average manufacturing quality.
Lemme be plain, then, my position is that anyone in the German army out of basic would have been capable of removing his sight hood. That doesn't require experience. Everybody in Stalingrad passed basic, ergo everyone in Stalingrad would have been able to remove their sight hood, no additional experience or veterancy required.
PS removing your sight hood allows you to see more, ergo greater field of view.
If this was done by WW2 soldiers its ok.
A pistol as a last level upgrade for the rifleman would be realistic, too.
If the soldier survived 2 years of the war chances are that he picked up a pistol from a dead enemy or friendly soldier and kept it.
It would also help so newbies wont take the SL class just for the sidearm, but have no idea how to lead the team...
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Well there seem to be options as well. As i doubt they would force you to use a 6x magnified scope all the time even when playing on danzig. A 2x scope would be much more helpful in such a map due to the greater fov.
If this was done by WW2 soldiers its ok.
A pistol as a last level upgrade for the rifleman would be realistic, too.
If the soldier survived 2 years of the war chances are that he picked up a pistol from a dead enemy or friendly soldier and kept it.
It would also help so newbies wont take the SL class just for the sidearm, but have no idea how to lead the team...
I think elite classes should get pistols, but not too many riflemen, or else Stalingrad will become an NYPD cops and robbers style shootout, they could even make the heroes look like Robert De Niro!
Thank you for finding the one place where I neglected to put a "Barring historical innacuricies" caveat on a one line comment. I said I thought it was interesting/ liked it, if you think its wrong why not quote he who suggested it?
Keeping in mind you who apparently is interested in utmost realism earlier suggested giving riflmen full autos, eventually turning ROHOS into a full auto fest with the occasional rifleman....
Can you also explain how a difference of weapon 'upgrade' for the Russian team is made "pointless" when the German team has no equivalent?
And lastly at your first post again unus, a mosin nagant is an upgrade over a K98k when you have no ammunition for your K98k left.
( Why does every suggestion around here turn into a bolt counting competition ).
Think of it this way.
Supposing every new player starts as a replacement for a casualty, and every rank represents roughly six months to one year of time. Yes this is an odd time conception because as people gain rank they go from entering the war in 41-42, to entering the war in 38-39 ( assuming tier 3 tops ). In that 'battlefield' time they would have had the chance ( greater chance over longer time ) to pick up different weapons if they were so inclined.
Because this is not an MMO or a MMORPG we are not going to just say "hey they would all have picked up MG42's, or MKB42's" and give everyone full autos. The idea is to still have a rifleman be ... A RIFLEMAN ( what an odd thought eh?). Given a year or two its likely that a russian soldier in stalingrad might come across a pre war manufacture 9130 on a dead soldier, they are very easy to identify, and if poor vlad has a half a brain cell he should see the difference in build quality quite plainly.
As to germans pilfering russian weapons, perhaps its not an upgrade in terms of accuracy or ballistic coefficients, but every kill you make earning you more ammunition is in and of itself an upgrade.
As an example of using different weapons based on preference / situation. A cousins grandfathers brother fought in stalingrad and told stories of using a musket at one point and firing the buttons from their uniforms. Thats probably on the extreme end, and I have no idea if its true, it has gone through a number of ears before getting to me.
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Who did suggest it Colt?
I never suggested that every rifleman eventually be given full autos, I suggested that "Hero" riflemen, of which max one would be present, should be able to choose between an Mkb.42, G41 or K98k. I don't see that as unrealistic seeing as the Mkb.42 & G41 were weapons carried by riflemen in rifle sections.
What are we talking about here? Upgrades in build quality or different caliber Mausers?
One at a time:
Introducing different caliber Mausers would be pointless because it carries no advantages with it.
Build quality upgrades for Russian weapons are not pointless, they are unrealistic.
And lastly at your first post again unus, a mosin nagant is an upgrade over a K98k when you have no ammunition for your K98k left.
Huh? Now you're simply talking nonesense. Wether you start of with a K98k or Mosin you're going be carrying roughly the same amount of ammunition. When you've exhaused it, it's a matter of getting to a supply area (shown plenty of times in ingame demonstrations), or picking up the ammunition of a fallen comrade.
So exactly what kind of upgrade would it be for a German to start of with a Mosin ? Answer is none at all. Only difference would be that now he has to search for ammunition amongst the enemy's fallen instead of his own, which could become a bit of a problem.
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1: someone suggested/mentioned different caliber mausers a few pages back, I cant find it now but that was what I was responding too.
2: Well sorry if I have mis-interpreted you, the topic of this post is the subject of rifleman upgrades, afaik there is a seperate class called the hero rifleman ( from what I recall on the demo videos ), this class already has access to things like the MKB or AVT. Rifleman upgrades would apply to the rifleman class and be available for all riflemen.
EDIT: If you go back to page one you will see others made the same interpretation as I did and you made no attempt to correct that interpretation.
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with that system, regular rifleman become some sort of super-class with everything packed in.
"- Jinnwarior
3: Earlier you mentioned that this upgrade was pointless after saying that the germans had no such equivalent.
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First of all what upgrades would a German rifleman get then? A Gewehr 98 wouldn't be an upgrade, it would just be a longer & heavier rifle with the same accuracy. And a captured Mosin Nagant would certainly not be an upgrade either, it would be just the opposite, a direct downgrade instead, so there's no point in that at all.
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I think at this point I should redact the use of the word "upgrade" it has horrible connotations here in that it implies the weapon is better then the next. The idea is to present the player with a different (usually rarer ) choice of weapon when they are more of a battlefield veteran, this is consistent with the current system in that only one player will ever have an AVT/MKB. The idea is to give players the option of choosing a rifle ( my OP suggestion was for Mosins ) which offers a slight little upgrade and is also aesthetically different. The pre war models WERE better, it was many of the hex receivers that were re fitted into sniper rifles by the russians attesting to their better accuracy, or at least the belief that they were superior.
( So no I am not suggesting making the during war production rifles horrible and withholding a better rifle, give them a .25Moa difference for all I could care )
4: Supplies in general were a wreck in stalingrad, were you to be running out of ammo you would probably be picking up a russian rifle. ( Hint, gun with 0 bullets < gun with bullets ). The suggestion was meant to replicate real life situations where a soldier picked up a different weapon, not ingame where you always spawn with a full pack of ammo.
Lastly I should say that the suggestion of "upgrades" for germans was not one in the OP, and I regret even commenting on it; only to have a rivet counter come by and first complain that the germans had no equivalent upgrades, and then that any comments made towards possible suggestions for the germans were inadequate/unrealistic/ETC. If you would really like the germans to have an equivalent "upgrade" then suggest one...
I am not the biggest fan of the level/upgrade system, but I acknowledge that it is there for a purpose ( to keep newbs out of important positions / add more fun to the game for those who find leveling fun ). As such I made a suggestion about how to extend that system to the bolt action rifles.
In terms of Quality if it makes you happy think of it like this:
In-war production mosin < Pre-war production mosin < Mauser.
Then the Russians get an upgrade to a weapon that is still slightly lesser to the Mauser, this is balanced off asymmetrically by the Russians having a better SMG when compared to the germans, voila.
Another possibility is just to say F**K it and do exactly what ROOST did and give all available rifles to each team as a pick what you want selection.
2: Well sorry if I have mis-interpreted you, the topic of this post is the subject of rifleman upgrades, afaik there is a seperate class called the hero rifleman ( from what I recall on the demo videos ), this class already has access to things like the MKB or AVT. Rifleman upgrades would apply to the rifleman class and be available for all riflemen.
EDIT: If you go back to page one you will see others made the same interpretation as I did and you made no attempt to correct that interpretation.
"
with that system, regular rifleman become some sort of super-class with everything packed in.
"- Jinnwarior
3: Earlier you mentioned that this upgrade was pointless after saying that the germans had no such equivalent.
"
First of all what upgrades would a German rifleman get then? A Gewehr 98 wouldn't be an upgrade, it would just be a longer & heavier rifle with the same accuracy. And a captured Mosin Nagant would certainly not be an upgrade either, it would be just the opposite, a direct downgrade instead, so there's no point in that at all.
"
I think at this point I should redact the use of the word "upgrade" it has horrible connotations here in that it implies the weapon is better then the next. The idea is to present the player with a different (usually rarer ) choice of weapon when they are more of a battlefield veteran, this is consistent with the current system in that only one player will ever have an AVT/MKB. The idea is to give players the option of choosing a rifle ( my OP suggestion was for Mosins ) which offers a slight little upgrade and is also aesthetically different. The pre war models WERE better, it was many of the hex receivers that were re fitted into sniper rifles by the russians attesting to their better accuracy, or at least the belief that they were superior.
( So no I am not suggesting making the during war production rifles horrible and withholding a better rifle, give them a .25Moa difference for all I could care )
4: Supplies in general were a wreck in stalingrad, were you to be running out of ammo you would probably be picking up a russian rifle. ( Hint, gun with 0 bullets < gun with bullets ). The suggestion was meant to replicate real life situations where a soldier picked up a different weapon, not ingame where you always spawn with a full pack of ammo.
Lastly I should say that the suggestion of "upgrades" for germans was not one in the OP, and I regret even commenting on it; only to have a rivet counter come by and first complain that the germans had no equivalent upgrades, and then that any comments made towards possible suggestions for the germans were inadequate/unrealistic/ETC. If you would really like the germans to have an equivalent "upgrade" then suggest one...
I am not the biggest fan of the level/upgrade system, but I acknowledge that it is there for a purpose ( to keep newbs out of important positions / add more fun to the game for those who find leveling fun ). As such I made a suggestion about how to extend that system to the bolt action rifles.
In terms of Quality if it makes you happy think of it like this:
In-war production mosin < Pre-war production mosin < Mauser.
Then the Russians get an upgrade to a weapon that is still slightly lesser to the Mauser, this is balanced off asymmetrically by the Russians having a better SMG when compared to the germans, voila.
Another possibility is just to say F**K it and do exactly what ROOST did and give all available rifles to each team as a pick what you want selection.
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