Rifle grenades continued

[morbius]

In captain communisms thread below (which some one locked) Murphy doesn't seem to have his facts straight.
It takes about as long to attach the cup,sight and load the grenade and blank ammo as it would to change the barrel and reload an mg 34 or 42.(I know,because I used to own one for my Mauser k98)

Murphy says"Takes too long to be usable ingame and it takes too long to animate especially for something like that that no one is going to use."

Thats all nonsense, lots of people would use them.and if CC can make man portable morters then these can also be made.

Murphy also says"The only situation when you could practically use this,is after a respawn while you are jogging towards the front again."

Also nonsense,any good infantryman would take up a position some place and support his buddies with this,not go Running towards the enemy like an idiot.

Murphy concludes with "this would mean,that every fight would begin with a small bombardment of Rifle grenades...not good."

????? Where do you get this from????if one guy in the squad/platoon has rifle grenades why would he waste them all at the beginning of every fight?????

Sorry Murphy,nothing personal but I disagree,Maybe you should do more research on the subject before you post answers to things that you don't seem to understand.

 

[Oldih]

Also nonsense,any good infantryman would take up a position some place and support his buddies with this,not go Running towards the enemy like an idiot.

Key term "any good infantryman".

So, should we expect that 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% (ok, 100% to make it simple) are these good riflemen?

We are talking about a video game, not about organized military unit. Or since when video game players = military unit?

It's quite hard to pretend to be in military and in war in front of your PC.

 

[Rak]

This feature can be abused on small maps, especially the official ones. But for larger maps like Kriegstads, I'd love to see one to be honest.

 

[D3terioNation]

The weapon is a stale-mate weapon. I cant see it being used like it should in RO. But I would still love to see it!!

They said that about smoke being abused. But now you're lucky to even see any smoke in pub play!!

 

[Steely.Glnt]

Id really like to see a *limited* amount of rifle nades available in RO. they would be very useful for clearing out snipers/mg nests on urban maps and wouldnt be overpowered if you had a separate rifle nade class. As long as they dont become N00b sticks (ala Wolfenstein:ET) I reckon they would be a great introduction.

 

[Oldih]

As long as they dont become N00b sticks (ala Wolfenstein:ET) I reckon they would be a great introduction.

Well even though they are abit funny in WolfET, atleast the devs made them bit unfriendly for spam.

 

[Murphy]

All nonsense? Care to argue against it?

Fact is, it takes an awful lot of time to get a rifle grenade ready.
(unload gun - load blank bullet - attach grenade cup - attach grenade - shoot grenade - detach cup - reload gun)

=> Takes long to animate
=> Has to be used often and must be helpful enough to justify the work that has to be put into it

Fact is, you don't have that time normally because the risk is very high that you get shot while you prepare one. Do you have 15 seconds (very generously short anyway!) spare time in a battle on Kessel/ Odessa/ Konigsplatz/ Krasny/ Danzig...? No you don't. Only after spawn. The longest time you are almost 100% safe and have nothing else to do than fixing bayos/preparing rifle grenades is after spawn.
=> People prepare a grenade when they spawn, shoot it as soon as they make contact, and then never bother with it again until they die.

Maybe in a spiritual sequel to RO on the Unrealengine 3 with more players and bigger map and a generally bigger scope of the game. Or at the opposite side of the spectrum: In a game like MoH:AA where you don't have to make it realistic and fun-weapons like this one are actully usable.

In RO I can't see it work like it should and I certainly can't see the devs putting that much effort into a little used fun-feature like rifle grenades at the end of RO's support cycle.

Nothing personal from my end either btw.

 

[D3terioNation]

Fact is, it takes an awful lot of time to get a rifle grenade ready. (unload gun - load blank bullet - attach grenade cup - attach grenade - shoot grenade - detach cup - reload gun)

Your above quote is the exact reason why RO should have it!

You have proven how long it will take, so therefore how this feature wont be spammed!!

It should take so long, and therefore force the player to think long & hard before attempting it!!

 

[metternich]

OK, I think that many of you are missing the finer points of what a rifle granade and a bolt action rifle actually are. Firstly, it would take about as much time to attach the cup at it would to fix the bayonet, second, the K98 is not an M1, you dont have to unload the whole thing, open the bolt, put in a blank, close the bolt, end of story. Also, they wouldnt really need that much in the way of new animations, as it would look the same as the sniper loading his rifle, just without the scope. Finally, there was another option for assault class that got the rifle nades this would force us to choose between close combat power (SMG/Assault Rifle) and the power of riflegranades. Personally, I think that I would usually take the smg/assault rifle unless there was a need for rifle granades.

 

[D3terioNation]

Come to think of it, by adding rifle grenades properly, they would have to add individual reload anims to all bolties. Not just when you want to launch a nade!!

Perhaps thats the reason they havent done it!?

 

[Murphy]

You have proven how long it will take, so therefore how this feature wont be spammed!!

It won't be spammed in the sense that they would be all over the place. But they would be misused as they would be used everytime after spawn and almost never again later.
That's not spam in the true sense of the word, but its not realistic either.

 

[KrazyKraut]

Some thoughts:

Rifle grenades aren't particularly accurate, they can't be used as "indirectly" as normal grenades as their trajectory is pretty flat and they would be limited to maybe 1 or 2 soldiers per team. So I doubt there would be a gross increase in nadespam. Also you wouldn't need to add them to all maps.

In any way, i think rifle grenades would be a much more sensible addition than another submachinegun or rifle.

 

[morbius]

If you are on one of those "OK corral" maps like Fuhrerbunker,or even Danzig,A Rifle grenade wouldn't work. but on the bigger maps that actually have lots of time,and there is room for moving around,then i think they would work.

Where do you get the idea that you would only use them coming out of spawn??what servers are you playing on???I know that on our server we try to outflank,and use fire support,and defense etc.

If you are playing on shoot from the hip,run to die,nadefest servers then of course these more complex weapons will be scoffed at or misused.

If used on maps and servers where people don't play like idiots, then I see rifle nades being an asset and working with no problems.

And it's =Unload gun(Or wait till you fire all the bullets and have to reload anyways),Load blank bullets,attach grenade cup,attach sight(K98 Mauser),Load grenade,Fire grenade,Now you have two options=load and fire another grenade,or unload blanks,load regular bullets,remove cup and sight.

If your team was attacking,you with a rifle grenade launcher could hang back and provide fire support or you could flank the enemy position and do the same,and you could shoot rifle grenades into 2nd story windows from a distance as well.Where do you get this fire a grenade and run forward to be killed stuff?? you don't have to always run out to die.you can find cover and stay back and provide your side with support.

I can see it working ,and if someone ever did take the time to MOD it then great,but if not ,so what.What we really need is another 5 types of submachineguns for the "OK Corral" maps.

 

[captain communism]

One possible problem: how would you be able to use a different form of round (IE, blanks). Perhaps the same way you switch the shell-types in tanks? but of course, this will never be implemented.

 

[metternich]

You dont have to unload the enitre gun, you only need to load one round. So, when you hit 'f' or what ever key you might assign to rifle nades, you attach the cup, load a nade into the cup, and put in a blank.

 

[18Bravo]

This would probably make people use rifles more, and see less SMGs, or so some people complain about there being too many SMGs.

 

[LogisticEarth]

This would probably make people use rifles more, and see less SMGs, or so some people complain about there being too many SMGs.

But at the same time, it would only be used on maps where the rifle already dominates.

The only map where I can think of where rifle grenades would really be useful is Berezina. Where the long distances to walk can sometimes make things frustrating for assaulting trenches. Everywhere else I can usually close the distances to the cap zone with some ease.

On one hand, rifle grenades would make CA maps more pleasurable for infantry. On the other, they give little reward for the amount of work that would need to go into them.

They're just another pipe dream, and I think the efforts of modders would be better spent elsewhere. Better maps, better uniforms, new vehicles and field guns...

 

[metternich]

Personally, I dont see rifle nades being used on open maps as much as urban maps where you need to get a nade in 2nd/3rd story windows. I have only thought "wow, I would really like a rifle nade" once and that was to clear out a building.

 

[sop_Ie]

They ruined a particular other game dont want them dont need em
regards
HMG and sniper Union.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

it would be nice to have it, even if RO is generally still a bit to past-paced in my taste for such weapons.
but in the same way, we have weapons in RO that many other ww2 games chose not to have, like MG's, assault guns, panzerfausts or ptrd. And we can't do without them anymore.
i could argue that the IS2 tank takes insanely long to reload, but it is always the first tank to be picked.
the same way if there is 1 grenade launcher available, players will probably fight for it. and complain as soon as the user is not using it to help the team. just like commander or sniper roles, the whole team observes them and won't allow any mistakes.
it will have a good use only in verry specific situations IMO, to take out that MG nest that has been cutting down the team for several minutes, or that annoying sniper nobody gets. right now i use the faust as a ersatz grenade launcher in desperate situations (with little result) where such a grenade launcher would be usefull.