Rewarding death

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Letum

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 24, 2006
466
1
0
It occurred to me that the game rewards death. Especially commander death.
If the commander keeps dieing the team will always have plenty of smoke.
If the commander survives the whole round the team will be short on smoke.
The same applies to other classes in lesser degrees.

If my team is short of smoke and I can't get to a ammo box then the only solution is to run at the enemy so I can respawn with fresh nades.

Is there a solution to this?
 

malice

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
900
0
0
but you lose rienforcements if you die and on some maps thats a big problem
 

flook

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2006
258
1
0
perennial problem with all respawn games, other example, tanking in an IS2, 18 shells + 10 HE then deliberately die cos you cant resupply tanks, satchel charges, easier to get killed on some maps to get more satchels than it is to find a resupply point, but worst of all is the reward of 3 new fausts everytime you die as anti tank fritz.

Solution? I dont have one sorry:cool:

oh oh oh wait a minute, I do have a solution, no respawn :)
 

Yoshiro

Senior Community Manager
Staff member
Oct 10, 2005
13,385
4,083
113
If a commander needs smoke, tell him to visit an ammo cache...
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,458
1,433
0
33
Falmouth UK
If a commander needs smoke, tell him to visit an ammo cache...

Suiciding takes less time... And there aren't always ammo boxes around.


And the problem here is that people would rather kill themselves than go to an ammo box. It shows an enormous lack of fear of death.
 

Crusher

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,400
376
0
34
Belgium
smoke grenades and special stuff should have a limited number, every time you die you choose if you are equipped with a specialty or not.
 

Sgt._Geist

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
310
0
0
Don't know about you.... but its usually much easier to goto an ammo box then killmyself..

BC killing yourself would mean you would have to wait the damn spawn timer, spawn, make it back, throw smoke, and rinse and repeat... Thats stupid...

Its much easier, and efficient to make it to a box and make it back... its FAST easy and simple.. and doesnt cut down on your reinf. count!
 

Crusher

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
2,400
376
0
34
Belgium
but going to an ammo cache is mostly suicide or you have to go back and having the chance of getting shot by a friendly, also alot of people don't like to go back, ALWAYS MOVE FORWARD, NOT BACKWARDS
 

Arro

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 15, 2006
63
0
0
Perhaps put a "reinforcement" style queue on weapons.

Not just for smoke grenades, but for all weapons.

That way if you don't use them moderately, you will run out.
 

18Bravo

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 31, 2006
525
1
0
Tennessee, USA
While I understand that smoke can be made as a good cover, a hail of bullets at the enemy can do the same as well. If your risking getting shot by a friendly, maybe you should speak over teamchat or the voice comms, and tell the rest of the team that you are on your way back.
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,458
1,433
0
33
Falmouth UK
Don't know about you.... but its usually much easier to goto an ammo box then killmyself..

BC killing yourself would mean you would have to wait the damn spawn timer, spawn, make it back, throw smoke, and rinse and repeat... Thats stupid...

Its much easier, and efficient to make it to a box and make it back... its FAST easy and simple.. and doesnt cut down on your reinf. count!

It depends on the location usually going to an ammo depot takes more times, and usually the smoke is needed most when getting out of spawn or at other
 

slyder73

Active member
Aug 3, 2006
826
79
28
Vancouver
It occurred to me that the game rewards death. Especially commander death.
If the commander keeps dieing the team will always have plenty of smoke.
If the commander survives the whole round the team will be short on smoke.
The same applies to other classes in lesser degrees.

If my team is short of smoke and I can't get to a ammo box then the only solution is to run at the enemy so I can respawn with fresh nades.

Is there a solution to this?

Just make sure you and your team get more of an advantage out of that death than the enemy. If you die and lose a reinforcement, make sure the smoke is in a place that helps your team cost the enemy more reinforcements than you lose by your death. And make sure you die after you get at least one death to make the reinforcement cost/benefit good for you. I'ts not your individual death in this game that matters, it's the overall effectiveness of the whole team and their efficiency that matters. (This is why deaths don't show on the stat page, just the team reinforcements) If you run up to die repeatedly for your team to get smoke cover, you'd better be on VOIP so they know to use that smoke to cost the enemy more.
Or even better, throw the smoke and find a place to lay down in a capzone. The Commander has more "power" in capping, equal to two players, and is more useful when in a zone hiding than fighting.
 

Solo4114

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 12, 2006
1,608
38
0
This seems to me to be one of those things that you can't fix without screwing up other parts of the game.

You will never ever EVER give people a real "fear of death" in a video game. It just won't happen. Even on a one-life server, there is no true fear of death because you're not gonna die.

The commander's death is harmful to his team because a commander counts as 1.5 soldiers both for purposes of capturing and for purposes of reinforcements. Each time your commander bites it, you've lost not one but 1.5 soldiers for your respawn. When your commander dies twice, that's three soldiers. So a real "frontline" commander who's CONSTANTLY getting killed or suiciding just to get more smoke out is costing your team plenty.

Try explaining that to the commanders you see suiciding, and maybe they'll start to change their behavior. Or maybe they won't care, which is another truism of the internet -- you can't make people play the way you want them to.
 

MarioBava

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 8, 2006
810
191
0
This leads me to an idea that would be great for this game (maybe I will post it in the ideas and suggestions): ammo resupply (G key) for every class, not just the MG. I have always felt this would be particularly useful for other specialist classes, like the snipers and the anti-tank soldiers.

How it works: Any player can visit the resupply point as now, but has the option to resupply themselves or another. Perhaps this could be implemented that instead of instant resupply, the little resupply symbol appears momentarily, giving you the chance to, for example, press the G key to grab a generic resupply pack and do nothing to resupply yourself (maybe with a little message like the one that tells you to press g to resupply the mg: "press g to pick up a resupply bundle for a teammate"). This charges you up so that you now carry a bundle of another classes' supplies (which you are not yourself allowed access to) and you may then resupply a teammate of any class one time for each visit to the resupply cache (you would only get one at a time; you can't stock up) by pressing the g key, similar to how it is done with the MG. Additionally, it would be pretty cool to have this bundle be droppable (by pressing g anywhere, the model for it would simply be one of those little boxes that comprise the resupply cache model) to the ground like any other weapon to create a temporary single-shot resupply point anywhere on the map--it would also be dropped when a resupply bundle carrying player dies.
 

slyder73

Active member
Aug 3, 2006
826
79
28
Vancouver
This leads me to an idea that would be great for this game (maybe I will post it in the ideas and suggestions): ammo resupply (G key) for every class, not just the MG. I have always felt this would be particularly useful for other specialist classes, like the snipers and the anti-tank soldiers.

How it works: Any player can visit the resupply point as now, but has the option to resupply themselves or another. Perhaps this could be implemented that instead of instant resupply, the little resupply symbol appears momentarily, giving you the chance to, for example, press the G key to grab a generic resupply pack and do nothing to resupply yourself (maybe with a little message like the one that tells you to press g to resupply the mg: "press g to pick up a resupply bundle for a teammate"). This charges you up so that you now carry a bundle of another classes' supplies (which you are not yourself allowed access to) and you may then resupply a teammate of any class one time for each visit to the resupply cache (you would only get one at a time; you can't stock up) by pressing the g key, similar to how it is done with the MG. Additionally, it would be pretty cool to have this bundle be droppable (by pressing g anywhere, the model for it would simply be one of those little boxes that comprise the resupply cache model) to the ground like any other weapon to create a temporary single-shot resupply point anywhere on the map--it would also be dropped when a resupply bundle carrying player dies.

This sounds awfully complicated. Why doesnt' the other guy just run back instead of you to resupply himself? And likely if he needs supply, by the time you run back to load up and get back to him he'd be dead anyway, especially adding in the time you'd have to take to select what "extra" supply kit you wanted to pick up.
The only ones who are are statically positioned and need resupply are the MG'ers if they are doing a good job.
 

Solo4114

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 12, 2006
1,608
38
0
You already kind of do that by having squad leaders count for more troops for respawn purposes (at least I'm pretty sure this is the case).
 

Crim

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 6, 2006
297
0
0
Any squad leader who believes his smoke grenades are more important than his 1.5x multiplier when capping a point is a terrible squad leader.