RO2 Respawn on SL - the thread

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Piscator

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 26, 2006
672
83
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ro2player said:
Respawn on SL is the real way to a squad to be a squad. Respawn on SL will make squad work more effective. I think : It's the reason respawn on SL have been created.
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Yes in WWII a SL just beams reinforcements from space.:rolleyes: It seems your real way differs from others.
The real way would be for the SL to lead the attack and to provide smoke not stay back and give birth. I played quite a few rounds lately and I can see never ever any other tactics being used than SL's get close to cap and stay alive. That is all there is to it. The enemy team tries to do the same maybe coordinate where which SL will go but that is it. Then spam-spawn the SL. I agree it makes the game more fast paced and unpredictable, less planning is needed and some people might like this but RO2Player you seem to see a lot more in this feature than there is to it. I agree with Sarcinelli on this.

All I can see is that it ruins game play, breaks immersion and caters for impatient players so they do not have to face the penalty when they die, no instead they might even be rewarded by spawning in the capzone.
At best it is a failed attempt to improve squad cohesion. So thanks TWI again for making it optional. I hope most servers will turn it off.

Yes the role of the SL will be downgraded but if you ever played with a SL that does not sit back close to cap he gives the team a disadvantage. Whenever I use spawn on SL and respawn in the cap or behind enemies I always think "I should not be here!" or "that enemy should not be there, broodmother near it seems!". Then again some people probably enjoy the scenes when they do respawn behind enemies being spawn protected and getting easy kills. Undeserved to me but others seem to have a different view on achievement-reward relation.
 
ro2player

ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
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Piscator said:

So I gave the spawn on SL issue some thought and I think for the moment it would just be nice to have it optional and in order to improve it or at least make it half as bad I think the following mechanics might help and could be an option in between:

The TL initiates a set time (adjustable by admin or mapper) in which spawn on SL is permitted with a cooldown. So spawn on SL could be on for say 2 mins then 2 mins cooldown. Maybe the uses could be limited so that at least this awful feature becomes of some sort of tactical value instead of just spawn spamming from all sides. Does not solve the Star Trek feeling but would cut it at least in half.
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Dear Piscator,

SL is not a support moral during a time of 2 minutes then 2 minutes later...You didn't understand the task of SL inside battle. Your misunderstood of task of SL is important and deep.
I am afraid your misuse of SL just follow your misunderstood of this task. SL is just not a guy with smoke !

SL need to BE a "moral factor" and to give moral support to EACH SECOND of the battle...
To Each second, Piscator, "to each second", and not during period of 2 minutes or 1 or 3 minutes.

Your error shows me ALSO how good respawn on SL is a good system.
You want give solutions who are WORST problems.


Piscator said:
@RO2Player

I think you do not get what my biggest problem with spawn on SL is.

So please answer the following question. What is more realistic?

a- Reinforcements arrive from the back of the front and walk up to the frontline

b- Reinforcements are being beamed down from space right into the battle and maybe even into the capzone or behind enemies

Easy one isn't it? That is the problem. It simulates nothing but teleportation and encourages careless gameplay. Your moral factor and human wave, resistance pockets etc. are just things made up in your mind. They do not exist and are surely not simulated in any way.
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-realist in which way ? with a squad as group of players ? or a squad as squad ? Here we are not agree.

-Reinforcement can come from several "centers of gravity". A line of front is a center of gravity. In battle you have several centers of gravity.

So having a line of front inside line of front is not SO STUPID.

Respawn on SL is the only way to a squad to be a squad.

You love to have line of front. You don't know war is also a line of front inside the line of front.

Having a line of front inside line of front, it's only consequence of the fact the squad is the squad. (what I call Chaos of war, fog of war, resistance pocket, moral factor are consequences too.)

There are tactic reasons who make respawn on SL not a stupid idea and a stupid way of playing. Tactic reasons give sense to respawn on SL. (all its sense finally)


Piscator said:
Your moral factor and human wave, resistance pockets etc. are just things made up in your mind.
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"Your" moral factor and human wave. ;) You make me a too great honor.

More seriously, Piscator :
you doesn't understand how they works.
What you forget, it's the fact they works. Watch and see. You can apply it.

I prefer to have this "moral factor and human wave, resistance pockets etc" in mind, than nothing.

I am just waiting arguments showing me there is clearly NO "moral factor" human wave resistance pocket fog of war inside battle etc etc...

Piscator said:
They do not exist and are surely not simulated in any way.
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Not sure at all, Piscator. They can exist, but you applied without knowing. It's the worst case. Better is to apply and knowing you are applying it. (not your case Piscator) It's not my problem. I am not here to talk about people. But about arguments. People is only interesting by its arguments.

Dude : If we can apply it...WHY do you want they don't exist ? :rolleyes: But I don't care of your answer. It's not my problem... Question of the name of theses events is not really a question.

I hope for you theses kind of events exist...(even if you seem to be too quickly disagree with the name)

More seriously : My problem is to think about theses ways of the battle to be a battle.

You are talking about the line of front, Dude.
I am talking about the way of the line of front to be a line of front. (so I used chaos of war, fog of war resistance pocket etc)

It's not the same thing. I am afraid we can't understand. Because you are in individual perspective. Your defense of line of front as line of front shows it. I don't love the individual perspective you love.

I defend line of front as : chaos of war or line of front inside line of front.
Even if you hate it, i love so much the squad perspective.

Easy to think I am wrong. More difficult it's to explain why. Here I wait you. On this line of front ;)

It's possible to see them (these factors you said they exist only in my brain) in battle and on battlefield. (Call them by another name : I will be agree with you.)
Sometime it's happens during a game we can see clearly it.
I am afraid you are blind : Tacticaly blind I mean. It's explain why you don't understand.
Be sure : they can be simulated.
 
ro2player

ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
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Piscator said:
Yes in WWII a SL just beams reinforcements from space.:rolleyes:
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You see a problem in space (as teleportation look like in star trek) but respawn on SL should be see as a time-solution. It's one of your problems.

Piscator said:
less planning is needed
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HAHAHAHAH ...and you are not joking...

I am not agree with your kind of answer.

It makes "the game more fast paced and unpredictable, MORE planning is needed"...by the fact of the brutality of the game and with the uncertainty of the battlefield (in space and in time).

Piscator said:
All I can see is that it ruins game play, breaks immersion and caters for impatient players so they do not have to face the penalty when they die, no instead they might even be rewarded by spawning in the capzone.
At best it is a failed attempt to improve squad cohesion. So thanks TWI again for making it optional. I hope most servers will turn it off.
Click to expand...

You FORGET enemy SL can do the same !
 
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luke688

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 2, 2012
167
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Osaka
Eugh I wish people would stop attacking the SL spawn for being unrealistic and then at the same time using Ro1/DH as an example of exactly where Ro2 should be in terms of "Realism".

Anyone remember the half tracks in darkest hour? by the logic in this thread DH was an Arcade BF3 clone too because they "Beamed in" reinforcements wherever you drove and set up the halftrack so other players could spawn in and not have to spend 10 mins running into the action. It was a pretty good feature too it kept gameplay active on larger maps with relatively small teams (32 players a side, not subtracting half of which would be driving vehicles) the SL spawn in realism is a good compromise until we get universal carriers/Halftracks in.
 
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Piscator

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 26, 2006
672
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luke688 said:
Eugh I wish people would stop attacking the SL spawn for being unrealistic and then at the same time using Ro1/DH as an example of exactly where Ro2 should be in terms of "Realism".

Anyone remember the half tracks in darkest hour? by the logic in this thread DH was an Arcade BF3 clone too because they "Beamed in" reinforcements wherever you drove and set up the halftrack so other players could spawn in and not have to spend 10 mins running into the action. It was a pretty good feature too it kept gameplay active on larger maps with relatively small teams (32 players a side, not subtracting half of which would be driving vehicles) the SL spawn in realism is a good compromise until we get universal carriers/Halftracks in.
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Just that most maps are too small to actually need it in RO2 and in DH it worked well and was needed while here it does not imho. Other than Barashka and Ogledow I cannot think of a map where you would actually need it. And just having half-tracks would be better anyway for immersion reasons.
I liked the eventual quiet moment in RO and DH while especially RS is so fast paced.
 
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RedZeppelin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 7, 2012
55
0
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I personally am not that bothered by spawn on SL. There's enough other things in the game that aren't realistic that it just doesn't seem like that big a deal. Realism has always been Realism(ish) to me anyway.

Quick thought re: getting squads to work together: Add a morale/suppression penalty for being too far from your SL. In real life, guys would get freaked if they were isolated, also if their SL was killed. This would encourage people to stick somewhat close to the SL. Might have to add some SL indicator to the HUD since I doubt anyone even knows who their SL is, since it seems people don't look at the map as often as they should. It would also encourage aggressive (but not too aggressive) SL play. Maybe roles like Sniper would be immune. But think about having all your riflemen needing to be near the SL in order to be more effective. It'd certainly cut down on Rambo-ism...
 
ro2player

ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
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RedZeppelin said:
I personally am not that bothered by spawn on SL. There's enough other things in the game that aren't realistic that it just doesn't seem like that big a deal. Realism has always been Realism(ish) to me anyway.

Quick thought re: getting squads to work together: Add a morale/suppression penalty for being too far from your SL. In real life, guys would get freaked if they were isolated, also if their SL was killed. This would encourage people to stick somewhat close to the SL. Might have to add some SL indicator to the HUD since I doubt anyone even knows who their SL is, since it seems people don't look at the map as often as they should. It would also encourage aggressive (but not too aggressive) SL play. Maybe roles like Sniper would be immune. But think about having all your riflemen needing to be near the SL in order to be more effective. It'd certainly cut down on Rambo-ism...
Click to expand...

respawn on SL is not soemthing who add or but something SL need to be. It's a something the SL need to be.
 
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Nikita

Nikita

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 5, 2011
1,874
606
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I play a lot of SL. Every now and then, I'm under fire, and I suddenly get a chain of +1 Team Points for spawning teammates, only to see allied soldiers fall dead all around me...

"My God, what have I done!?"

In general, it seems I get a lot of kills on enemies helpessly spawning in the open. Likewise, I seem to get a lot of allies killed by spawning them under fire.
 
nymets1104

nymets1104

Active member
Dec 18, 2012
2,432
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Nikita said:
I play a lot of SL. Every now and then, I'm under fire, and I suddenly get a chain of +1 Team Points for spawning teammates, only to see allied soldiers fall dead all around me...

"My God, what have I done!?"

In general, it seems I get a lot of kills on enemies helpessly spawning in the open. Likewise, I seem to get a lot of allies killed by spawning them under fire.
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What if instead of diabling the SL Spawn under fire, a warning was given?

Maybe next to the spawn choice you could have:

"Spawn on SL !!UNDER FIRE!!"

Then it would be up to the spawner if he wanted to risk it or walk from the rear up.
 
LugNut

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
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Or, only enable Spawn on SL farther away from enemies, it would stop much of the unwanted behaviors.
 
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RedZeppelin

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 7, 2012
55
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ro2player said:
So I can say you don't know the fact the SL need to be a moral factor.
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First, it's *morale*, not moral. Moral has to do with right and wrong, morale has to do with "confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline."

And yes, I do know that the SL has an affect to reduce suppression. It's effect on gameplay seems very minimal to me and I play SL quite a bit.
 
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Piscator

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 26, 2006
672
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RedZeppelin said:
First, it's *morale*, not moral. Moral has to do with right and wrong, morale has to do with "confidence, enthusiasm, and discipline."

And yes, I do know that the SL has an affect to reduce suppression. It's effect on gameplay seems very minimal to me and I play SL quite a bit.
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I think spawn on SL is morally wrong and contributes nothing to morale! But seriously mate, save your breath as RO2Player even tries to tell the developers how things work. He also sees a lot in spawn on SL that most of us don't.
 
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