RO2 Respawn on SL - the thread

[Piscator]

As stated, it'd be an easy fix if the browser was modified. If not, admins could always post pertinant descriptions in the title. "No zoom, no SoSL" something like that. And, just like now, you'd develop a list of favorite servers.

I like the concept of mobile spawn points which is all Spawn on SL is, it's simply badly implemented as it is now. Because a SL can sprint up near a cap, sit in a hidey hole and spew out his squadmates with great effect, it FORCES this to become the primary duty of an effective SL.

I'd far prefer instead of Spawn on SL, the SL and TL can place a destroyable mobile spawn point, either using a drivable vehicle since they are coming soon, or a small structure like a tent. Maybe even like Arty, the SL gets to the desired location and the TL then has to activate it somehow.

Limit as to where this can happen on the map and the strategic role changes drastically as well as how players respond to it. Consider if a mobile spawn point was limited to a range from the cap similar or just slightly less than the static spawns. On a map like Winterwald or Bridges, a SL would place a point out on the flanks, or in a concealed spot and then would be free to leave after gathering his squad to move up. Now, a SL is most effective stationary, prone and hidden, boring for the player and very unrealistic. Since Spawn on SL isn't good for simply spawning three seconds from the fight anymore, players would be more apt to use it strategically.

Instead of the situations we have now, where each side has SL's sitting on either side of the cap endlessly respawning players who Rambo in with barely a chance to look around, the game would become more complex and more interesting. Notice a increase of enemy in one area? You'd have to respond to it, send hunters and an engineer out to find and destroy the spawn point, call in mortars on it. Do something. It'd increase the playable areas on the maps, as it is now, usually being able to spawn near the cap makes maps play out as a series of repeatable, confined, close quarters skirmishes. It would increase the potential for maps to play out differently, push the left side this time, center the next.

Now imagine a map like Bridges where after the initial spawn, the only static spawns available were the last ones, farthest back, yet you could place mobile spawn points farther up on the map. This would force teamplay, you'd have to protect your SL's and your spawn points and could severly damage your opponent by destryong theirs. You'd have to communicate where the enemy is since you know longer know EXACTLY where they are spawning. Fighting would happen all over the map, not just at the caps, engineers would have a significant role, fear of death would be increased since spawning is no longer instant gratification, so people quickly learn that playing as a squad is the best way to stay alive and not have to respawn.

It would increase communication and the incentive to play as a team. It'd be way more fun too.

+1

LugNut you nailed it.

Anyone doubting your skills? Who dares?

 

[aaz777]

@RO2Player

I think you do not get what my biggest problem with spawn on SL is.

So please answer the following question. What is more realistic?

a- Reinforcements arrive from the back of the front and walk up to the frontline

b- Reinforcements are being beamed down from space right into the battle and maybe even into the capzone or behind enemies

Easy one isn't it? That is the problem. It simulates nothing but teleportation and encourages careless gameplay. Your moral factor and human wave, resistance pockets etc. are just things made up in your mind. They do not exist and are surely not simulated in any way.

you are 100% right

 

[Piscator]

But not systematically look like we can do in realism mode...
And I love the link betwen SL and soldiers who exist in realism mode too.
By nature realism mode is a tactic mode.

And you seem to be blind on this point. Do you know we can USE tacticaly realism mode as the same way casual use realism mode only for fun ??

You miss the deeply tactic dimension who is realism mode. You have the rigth. Do as you want. but know what you miss.

No you are ignorant to the fact that beaming soldiers from space is just unrealistic and dull.
Squad cohesion is poor with or without spawn on SL. Realism surely is not more tactical. It is faster paced, easier to aim, less deadly but yes includes spawn spamming on SL which you consider the greatest tactic it seems but to me it is just lame.

Mate, I wish you could see how Classic games on the 40-1 server were played and I am certain you'd revoke all your sayings. That was (besides the sprint speed) much more realistic and authentic battles than you could find on any realism server but I guess it lies in the eye of the beholder.

 

[how2skate_com]

No you are ignorant to the fact that beaming soldiers from space is just unrealistic and dull.

Anyway they get beamed from space, in the spawn or on the SL, doesn't matter from realism perspective. Coming back to life after you died isn't realistic. Having your name floating over your head isn't realistic.

I'm not entirely sure, but I would think assaulting Iwo Jima with max 32 guys would be kind of crazy, so obviously there will have to be functions in the game to make it happen.

The only valid argument for me is: do you like it or not? It's a personal choice, and you can play on the appropriate servers depending on your choice, hooray!

 

[Siegertyp]

Anyway they get beamed from space, in the spawn or on the SL, doesn't matter from realism perspective. Coming back to life after you died isn't realistic. Having your name floating over your head isn't realistic.

I'm not entirely sure, but I would think assaulting Iwo Jima with max 32 guys would be kind of crazy, so obviously there will have to be functions in the game to make it happen.

The only valid argument for me is: do you like it or not? It's a personal choice, and you can play on the appropriate servers depending on your choice, hooray!

Perhaps a new game mode should be developed where after every death you have to go through basic training before getting back to battle. Because no new soldier would be thrown into battle without training. Much more realistic, makes a life much more valuable.

Or even better, introduce the game mode that I heard really exists in a mobile phone game: let each player have one life. If he dies, he can never play the game again. Even more realistic, every live is so much more valued.

To be serious again: wasn't that spawn on SL different before the RS upgrades? I can't remember that spawning was so close to the enemy before. Perhaps a minimum spawn distance from any enemy should be introduced.

 

[Proud_God]

Coming back to life after you died isn't realistic.

Respawning on static spawn points represents a new soldier entering the battlefield (although the unfortunate progression system likes to make us believe this isn't the case), so it's nowhere near the levels of crazy that we get from spawn on SL.

 

[how2skate_com]

No really, what's the difference?

A) A soldier teleports into the battlefield.
B) A soldier teleports into the frontline of the battlefield.

You can try to find reasoning in this teleportation all you want, but it's just a gameplay element.

Like so many other gameplay elements, it's not realistic, but it doesn't matter, as it makes the game more fun. Now this part (fun or not) we can argue about, but it's subjective so you can only let people choose what they want to play and that's that. There is no right or wrong.

One thing we can do though is improve the system, but please don't bring realism into this as an argument, because it makes no sense.

 

[Proud_God]

No really, what's the difference?

A) A soldier teleports into the battlefield.
B) A soldier teleports into the frontline of the battlefield.

A) is: a soldier arrives at the map's edge by walking/ riding a transport/ whatever. Something that is physically possible. Not so for B). But anyways, everything has been said by everyone.

 

[Flashburn]

Need spawn on recon plane. Just drop out the side door here.... OMG IS THAT FALLING MEAT+?!

 

[Piscator]

No really, what's the difference?

A) A soldier teleports into the battlefield.
B) A soldier teleports into the frontline of the battlefield.

You can try to find reasoning in this teleportation all you want, but it's just a gameplay element.

Like so many other gameplay elements, it's not realistic, but it doesn't matter, as it makes the game more fun. Now this part (fun or not) we can argue about, but it's subjective so you can only let people choose what they want to play and that's that. There is no right or wrong.

One thing we can do though is improve the system, but please don't bring realism into this as an argument, because it makes no sense.

I did not think that I had to explain this as it seems obvious. I am of course aware of that fact.

It is about immersion and soldiers spawning in the back and moving up helps in this regard, spawning on SL into the middle of the fight clearly does not. So there are significant differences both in gameplay and immersion.

Funny you say that respawning after dying is unrealistic. Well it is but as you said it is after all a game and respawn is needed. However people often try to defend the progression system stating that their avatar would get better over time forgetting that they use many avatars as they keep dying.

 

[LugNut]

Need spawn on recon plane. Just drop out the side door here.... OMG IS THAT FALLING MEAT+?!

Whoooooo! Only at level 51 do you get a chute.....

 

[Giuliano]

No really, what's the difference?

A) A soldier teleports into the battlefield.
B) A soldier teleports into the frontline of the battlefield.

You can try to find reasoning in this teleportation all you want, but it's just a gameplay element.

Like so many other gameplay elements, it's not realistic, but it doesn't matter, as it makes the game more fun. Now this part (fun or not) we can argue about, but it's subjective so you can only let people choose what they want to play and that's that. There is no right or wrong.

One thing we can do though is improve the system, but please don't bring realism into this as an argument, because it makes no sense.

Its about immersion rather than realism. Seeing people materialise out of thin air just looks ridiculous. Especially if they're invulnerable to bullets.

 

[Kowalczyk]

Ok, spawn on SL is unrealistic, breaks immersion, whatever you want to argue, but isnt that also true for the one thing that I think NEVER EVER gets mentioned in any thread about realism at all ... (drum roll)

Being able to magically communicate with your whole team, and not just, the enemy team as well, from all points on the map, by using your magic keyboard or microphone!

I think the realistic/not realistic thing doesnt appy here, it's whether you find it fun or not, the realism is really not relevant.

 

[Piscator]

Ok, spawn on SL is unrealistic, breaks immersion, whatever you want to argue, but isnt that also true for the one thing that I think NEVER EVER gets mentioned in any thread about realism at all ... (drum roll)

Being able to magically communicate with your whole team, and not just, the enemy team as well, from all points on the map, by using your magic keyboard or microphone!

I think the realistic/not realistic thing doesnt appy here, it's whether you find it fun or not, the realism is really not relevant.

I think you misunderstand.
It is about immersion and to simulate "realistic" gameplay. We all know PC games are not real. It is code but it can give you the impression of a realistic surrounding.
Fire-breathing dragons in RO/RS for example would kill immersion. Spawn on SL breaks the feeling of a realistic surrounding for me the way it works atm.

 

[Flashburn]

Now IF TW would say...fine OK guys, server admins can set this without being unranked.

And no chutes on respawn on recon plane.... If I can respawn on sl and be UNKILLABLE for 2 seconds you can just bounce when you hit the ground. What is the difference?

 

[Piscator]

Anything from TWI?
Can you make it optional without unranking the server? It does not sound too hard. So please make our day.

If you cannot make it optional it would be nice to know why that is the case.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Anything from TWI?
Can you make it optional without unranking the server? It does not sound too hard. So please make our day.

If you cannot make it optional it would be nice to know why that is the case.

+ 1 Agreed.

 

[Siegertyp]

Anything from TWI?
Can you make it optional without unranking the server? It does not sound too hard. So please make our day.

If you cannot make it optional it would be nice to know why that is the case.

To quote from another thread, the answer given was regarding changes on 'spawn on SL' in Realism:

Tripwire doesn't agree with that change. For severs/players looking for a customized play experience is one of the main reasons the unranked tab exists.

One of the biggest complains we received in the RO 1 days (and even from KF) was (is) being unable to reliably find severs running "stock" environments. So the current ranking and filters are designed to allow players to find that.

About other game modes:

[...]

What you are now asking is something we have considered (and are still considering).

I hope I didn't alter the meaning of the quotes by quoting out of direct context, for further info read page 22 in this tread: [url]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=93383[/URL]

 

[Piscator]

Thanks Siegertyp.

With all the game modes and options within those it seems odd that this one would lead to confusion.
But it seems that times have changed and players today prefer the "stock" content over and over again to the fresh and new custom content.

Beats me.

Player numbers are going down daily anyway. So to me that shows that compared to RO something is missing or in case of spawn on SL some features are just not good and the feeling of "same old, same old" comes up. Not saying making spawn on SL optional will be the savior but it would certainly get my friends back into the game.
Funny enough one of them did not like Classic because of the walking, slow speed etc. but he played with us anyway and after a while he will not even play Realism mode anymore.

Proper convert but sadly no church to go to anymore.

 

[ro2player]

Personally I don't have a problem with how it plays with spawn on SL. I like it actually. It gives the class more importance to the team effort and more effect on the outcome of the match. I also think I do a better job leading the attack when I can choose where my squad spawns. Better than if I charged in by myself I mean. Which is STILL how I play SL when I have a small squad. But it takes away the way I like to lead when I have a large squad, which is to choose spawn location thus dictating which capzone my men go for.

Without spawn on SL, squads are sort of irrelevant - unless everyone really really wants to follow orders AND leaders have mics. Otherwise people will just do whatever occurs to them, regardless of their squad, which was the way things used to be, and which as a SL I found somewhat less meaningful.

Jank, here i agree with what you say.

Playing without respawn on SL is not the same thing than playing with respawn on SL. Respawn on SL is the real way to a squad to be a squad. Respawn on SL will make squad work more effective. I think : It's the reason respawn on SL have been created.

Nah, the most important roles of a SL are Smoke and Extra Cap Force


EDIT: Oh, and marking arti off course!

Wrong, Sarcinelli.

You take secondary tasks for first tasks. It's your main error. Classic mode is a mode based on this error. Then it's easy to understand here we are in individual way of gaming. It's also make the SL an individual way of playing.

The first task of SL is to be a "moral support" for his men. (what I call to be a "moral factor" inside the battle).
To be a "coward" or a "rambo" alone is defenitely NOT the same than to be a "coward" or a "rambo" together.
We can see "moral support" in action thanks to Respawn on SL...

Realism mode is based on the first task of SL : the moral support and its action inside battle. Then it's easy to understand here we are in squad level way of gaming. It's also make the SL an unit way of playing. Moral support is one of differences betwen playing as individual level and squad level playing.