RO2 Respawn on SL - the thread

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ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
0
My only issue with spawn on SL is that the player gets Spawn Protection. Once that goes, it'll be golden. (in my opinion)

I agree,Cwivey. respawn on SL need REALLY to works with No spawn protection.
AND i think soldiers who appears with respawn on SL should be appaers in prone position.

Yes... But there isn't a morale factor in the game. This is something made up that you're including for the sake of defending spawning on SL.
No dude. you miss the point. I am not talking about the fact to have point to protect SL or TL.
I am talking about the tactic relationship betwen soldiers, SL and TL.

RO2player, I play Realism almost exclusively and the only role I play is Squad Leader, but I can't remember the last time I saw my squad spawn on me and actually STAY with me. Half the time they use me as a spawn point and nothing more. They just run away and do their own thing after that.

Giuliano I can answer to you :

- either you fail to be a SL, dude. (i don't think so)
- or either soldaiers failed to be soldiers...

Sometime we can see the two failures in same time. Possiblities of failure doesn't make necessary respawn on SL a failure.
 
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ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
0
Interesting view. But it is exactly that what I find so silly. Immersion breaking. And I think you already have a suppression bonus when near the SL so there you go, a realistic moral factor and not one from the heavens. The SL gives not moral advantage but a numeric one which depends if and how many players choose to respawn on him. Yes it is rolling the dice but this has no place in a tactical WWII shooter. This is called a role-playing game!

SL work with moral factor, until become himself this moral factor inside the battle ! Respawn on Sl represent effect of motivation of a SL on his men.
Or maybe you don't know what is a SL ?? I will start to think it.

So, "chaos of war" is when soilders are teleporting to any point of the map every time?

No.
What is "chaos of war" ? Battle become chaos IN THE SPACE. respawn on Sl create a line of front not necessary IN line of front but OUT of the main line of front. I use Chaos of war. are you ok ??

Example of "Chaos of war":
Battefield is a Line of front, for the moment. With respawn on Sl you can decided to create a second line of front in flank or rear of the enemy.

With respawn on SL, we can play with cohesion higher in time and in space than in classic -even with the best will of skilled players...By nature realism mode is tactic mode. It will be more easy to play and keeping safe the cohesion.
Classic mode by nature is individual mode.

Why cohesion is higher in realism mode ?

Realism mode is more hard because partially because respawn on SL make battle has a higher concentration of ambush and assault.

Don't associate RO 2 to COD just because you meet a higher concentration of ambush and assault. It's an error. The higher concentration of ambush and assault used in RO 2 is not the same way to be a concentration of ambush and assault used in COD. It's not really not the same kind.

Dudes : higher concentration of ambush and assault is so GOOD !

Tripwire interactive created his own way to have a higher concentration of ambush and assault in this game. And it's not the COD way.


The TWI implemented morale feature is only affected if you're losing/winning a battle or near a hero. Spawning on top of your squad leader doesn't give players a magical urge to play harder or better than the players who don't. When I spawn on my squad leader I don't suddenly feel braver or tougher. I'm doing it because I don't have to spawn so far away from an objective.

Giuliano, I talk about another moral factor. Not this kind of moral.

see the example :

Example of "moral factor" :
-a bunker defending by a SL and his full squad against 2 squads without SL each.
Bunker troop have moral advantage.
+1 moral factor will have the squad inside the bunker.
(Roll the dice, see the table, etc…etc… ;) )

Yes... But there isn't a morale factor in the game. This is something made up that you're including for the sake of defending spawning on SL.

No dude. you miss the point. I am not talking about the fact to have point to protect SL or TL.
I am talking about the tactic relationship betwen soldiers, SL and TL. it's look like but it's not what i am talking.
I am talking about way of playing, and not about point.

Without spawn on SL a few soldiers can also hold the line being outnumbered but you need to stay alive and not just spawn spam on your SL, throw grenades and make a run for it. So it is often more effective to just run out there guns blazing and grenade-tossing then die and do it again. Great addition to gameplay! :rolleyes: Very realistic!

But not systematically look like we can do in realism mode...
And I love the link betwen SL and soldiers who exist in realism mode too.
By nature realism mode is a tactic mode.

And you seem to be blind on this point. Do you know we can USE tacticaly realism mode as the same way casual use realism mode only for fun ??

You miss the deeply tactic dimension who is realism mode. You have the rigth. Do as you want. but know what you miss.
 
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ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
0
Interesting view. But it is exactly that what I find so silly. Immersion breaking. And I think you already have a suppression bonus when near the SL so there you go, a realistic moral factor and not one from the heavens. The SL gives not moral advantage but a numeric one which depends if and how many players choose to respawn on him. Yes it is rolling the dice but this has no place in a tactical WWII shooter. This is called a role-playing game!

Sorry.
My remark was inspired from a ww2 squad level wargame...and not from RPG. Why do you want still to think in individual perspective ?

Example of "moral factor" :
-a bunker defending by a SL and his full squad against 2 squads without SL each.
Bunker troop have moral advantage.
+1 moral factor will have the squad inside the bunker.
(Roll the dice, see the table, etc…etc… ;) )

"You are talking about talking ? I talk you about acting."
I am talking about teamplay, cooperating. RO2 without teamplay and cooperating is nothing - all soilders ignore their commanders, run where they want; commanders dont use smoke&arty OR use it wrong way AND nothing will help them - including teleport ( spawn on SL ). If players will cooperate - they will get all moral factors and teleporting to SL will not be needed.
"
Respawn on SL is moral factor in action inside battlefield."
sorry, but you just repeat same words every time and ignore all my arguments. I already told you that this is unlogical, unrealistic, arcade; but you dont care. I think that next discussion here will be useless

Realism mode has a squad cohesion more effective :
In classic mode you start to talk and then act. Because the first ground of this mode is individual.
In realism mode you start to act and then talk. Because the first ground of this mode is squad.

In realism mode You perform squad cohesion with more effectiveness.

So, conclusion: more freedom in the spawn on SL server setting (no unranking)? :cool:

Join classic server is you want. Respawn on SL is one fundament of Realism mode. Spawn on SL give us a squad level game more effective and more quick.
 
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how2skate_com

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 20, 2011
386
63
0
So, conclusion: more freedom in the spawn on SL server setting (no unranking)? :cool:

I'm not a big fan of that, as it makes everything inconsistent. I pick a server, how do I know what the settings are? Some have different hit detection, some will have SL spawning, some will have etc...

So first I need to join a server, actually play for a few minutes to figure out the server settings myself, and then I can stay or leave, depending on those.

Unless there was some better server information before joining, but still... not a big fan of it. If you make a system good, and you make it work, then there's no reason to turn it off.
 

ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
0
I'm not a big fan of that, as it makes everything inconsistent. I pick a server, how do I know what the settings are? Some have different hit detection, some will have SL spawning, some will have etc...

So first I need to join a server, actually play for a few minutes to figure out the server settings myself, and then I can stay or leave, depending on those.

Unless there was some better server information before joining, but still... not a big fan of it. If you make a system good, and you make it work, then there's no reason to turn it off.

how2skate_com,

Playing realism mode without respawn on Sl ? Dude ?
Respawn on SL is one effect on squad level. How can we ask to disable it ? Each round playing without respawn on SL is a round lost because not played in squad unit perspective.
 

Flashburn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2013
723
9
0
Washington STATE
To maintain unit cohesion WITHOUT spawn on SL (well there is not now either), some sort of negative reinforcement is needed for Rambo's. Since you can not take them out back and smoke them, beat them, or kill them, some other element maybe needed to be dreamed up. Or just turn off spawn on SL and have a 2 or 3 minute respawn wait. They sure will LOOK like a team when they respawn. LOL:eek: Oh and now TL's force respawn is WAY WAY more important. And maybe people try and stay alive a bit more.

Of course now folks are hiding in holes even more scared to attack anything. :p Need some nasty NCO's to maintain some proper discipline on the cowards I guess. :eek::eek:;)
 

>F|R< Sarcinelli

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 6, 2007
846
44
0
35
ES - Brasil
So first I need to join a server, actually play for a few minutes to figure out the server settings myself, and then I can stay or leave, depending on those.

That's easy to fix, they just have to refine the server browser.

If you make a system good, and you make it work, then there's no reason to turn it off.

Well, if they make the system good (what I suppose would take a lot of work, testing and tweaking) is another story but right now I think it's easier to improve the server browser and make spawn on SL optional.
 
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ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
0
Well, if they make the system good (what I suppose would take a lot of work, testing and tweaking) is another story but right now I think it's easier to improve the server browser and make spawn on SL optional.

Respawn on SL is nature by excellence of Realism mode. You askjust Realism mode become less tactic and fun ?

To maintain unit cohesion WITHOUT spawn on SL (well there is not now either), some sort of negative reinforcement is needed for Rambo's. Since you can not take them out back and smoke them, beat them, or kill them, some other element maybe needed to be dreamed up. Or just turn off spawn on SL and have a 2 or 3 minute respawn wait. They sure will LOOK like a team when they respawn. LOL:eek: Oh and now TL's force respawn is WAY WAY more important. And maybe people try and stay alive a bit more.

Respawn on SL doesn't necessary mean you are only a rambo.
I think there several way to be a coward. Coward together (what you call respawn on SL) or coward alone. Individual way of playing in classic mode.
Most effective way is first way.

Of course now folks are hiding in holes even more scared to attack anything. :p Need some nasty NCO's to maintain some proper discipline on the cowards I guess. :eek::eek:;)

SL are ever nasty. Or they are not good SL. SL asks to soldiers to do job AGAINST THEMSELVES. It's why a SL need to be someone who is nasty. SL need to be nasty first against himself, and then against his men.

Maintaining cohesion in close and longe range, under control of SL, in the way to perform orders of TL.
Maintaining cohesion is naturally more easily to be created by pyramidal way (than with SL) than by circular way (with no SL). [here we can understand also why classic mode failed]

It can be called "moral factor" this way of squad to be ruled by a SL who try to maintaining cohesion in close and longe range. "Moral factor" is a way to a squad to be a squad under actions and orders of SL - until becoming actions and orders of TL.

My conclusion : Best battles are winned by the best "moral factor" (i think).
 
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Flashburn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2013
723
9
0
Washington STATE
I am NOT saying hay get rid of current realism with is spawn on SL. I think it DOES have some elements of tactical stuff. But I would really like to have the option to join a MORE real server with this OFF. And still have my stats. Since alas those stupid stats are needed if I am ever gonna level up my damned pistols and at rifles. STUPID PERSISTANT STATS> see what it does!
 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
9,794
890
0
55
Newton, NJ
I'm not a big fan of that, as it makes everything inconsistent. I pick a server, how do I know what the settings are? Some have different hit detection, some will have SL spawning, some will have etc...

So first I need to join a server, actually play for a few minutes to figure out the server settings myself, and then I can stay or leave, depending on those.

Unless there was some better server information before joining, but still... not a big fan of it. If you make a system good, and you make it work, then there's no reason to turn it off.

Yeah, the server browser is lacking in the information it displays, so that is actually a whole different problem and should not be related to what is and isn't allowed as a server setting.
 

LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
117
0
I pick a server, how do I know what the settings are?

As stated, it'd be an easy fix if the browser was modified. If not, admins could always post pertinant descriptions in the title. "No zoom, no SoSL" something like that. And, just like now, you'd develop a list of favorite servers.

I like the concept of mobile spawn points which is all Spawn on SL is, it's simply badly implemented as it is now. Because a SL can sprint up near a cap, sit in a hidey hole and spew out his squadmates with great effect, it FORCES this to become the primary duty of an effective SL.

I'd far prefer instead of Spawn on SL, the SL and TL can place a destroyable mobile spawn point, either using a drivable vehicle since they are coming soon, or a small structure like a tent. Maybe even like Arty, the SL gets to the desired location and the TL then has to activate it somehow.

Limit as to where this can happen on the map and the strategic role changes drastically as well as how players respond to it. Consider if a mobile spawn point was limited to a range from the cap similar or just slightly less than the static spawns. On a map like Winterwald or Bridges, a SL would place a point out on the flanks, or in a concealed spot and then would be free to leave after gathering his squad to move up. Now, a SL is most effective stationary, prone and hidden, boring for the player and very unrealistic. Since Spawn on SL isn't good for simply spawning three seconds from the fight anymore, players would be more apt to use it strategically.

Instead of the situations we have now, where each side has SL's sitting on either side of the cap endlessly respawning players who Rambo in with barely a chance to look around, the game would become more complex and more interesting. Notice a increase of enemy in one area? You'd have to respond to it, send hunters and an engineer out to find and destroy the spawn point, call in mortars on it. Do something. It'd increase the playable areas on the maps, as it is now, usually being able to spawn near the cap makes maps play out as a series of repeatable, confined, close quarters skirmishes. It would increase the potential for maps to play out differently, push the left side this time, center the next.

Now imagine a map like Bridges where after the initial spawn, the only static spawns available were the last ones, farthest back, yet you could place mobile spawn points farther up on the map. This would force teamplay, you'd have to protect your SL's and your spawn points and could severly damage your opponent by destryong theirs. You'd have to communicate where the enemy is since you know longer know EXACTLY where they are spawning. Fighting would happen all over the map, not just at the caps, engineers would have a significant role, fear of death would be increased since spawning is no longer instant gratification, so people quickly learn that playing as a squad is the best way to stay alive and not have to respawn.

It would increase communication and the incentive to play as a team. It'd be way more fun too.
 
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ro2player

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 1, 2011
882
4
0
Instead of the situations we have now, where each side has SL's sitting on either side of the cap endlessly respawning players who Rambo in with barely a chance to look around, the game would become more complex and more interesting. Notice a increase of enemy in one area? You'd have to respond to it, send hunters and an engineer out to find and destroy the spawn point, call in mortars on it. Do something. It'd increase the playable areas on the maps, as it is now, usually being able to spawn near the cap makes maps play out as a series of repeatable, confined, close quarters skirmishes. It would increase the potential for maps to play out differently, push the left side this time, center the next.
Realism mode is already "more interesting" Lugnut. Because you just don't practice well it.

I'd far prefer instead of Spawn on SL, the SL and TL can place a destroyable mobile spawn point, either using a drivable vehicle since they are coming soon, or a small structure like a tent. Maybe even like Arty, the SL gets to the desired location and the TL then has to activate it somehow.

"or a small structure like a tent" :confused::confused::confused:

Lugnut ?
In Stalingrad, after each rush a tent is waited its veryloved SL...it's very well known. Seriously Lugnut. I am surprised...all i want to say. Writte what you want. But here I am surprised, Mr Lugnut.

Instead of the situations we have now, where each side has SL's sitting on either side of the cap endlessly respawning players who Rambo in with barely a chance to look around, the game would become more complex and more interesting. Notice a increase of enemy in one area? You'd have to respond to it, send hunters and an engineer out to find and destroy the spawn point, call in mortars on it. Do something. It'd increase the playable areas on the maps, as it is now, usually being able to spawn near the cap makes maps play out as a series of repeatable, confined, close quarters skirmishes. It would increase the potential for maps to play out differently, push the left side this time, center the next.

"the game would become more complex and more interesting. Notice a increase of enemy in one area? "

Lugnut,
Realism mode is already "more interesting" Lugnut. Because you just don't practice well it. Do you know you can ALREADY APPLY IT ! You just limited the sector of respawn on SL and the game will become QUICKLY boring. Sorry Lugnut. A real tactic job in squad and platoon level can be already done with respawn on SL. Respawn on SL is same than a "center of gravity" of the line of front. Locked sectors will make respawn on SL failed. It's a non-sense What is attractive is the uncertainty of the war situation.

You just want now to create, BESIDE CAP zones, RESPAWN ON SL zones... I am not sure it's a good idea.
 
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Proud_God

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 22, 2005
3,235
548
0
Belgium
I'm not a big fan of that, as it makes everything inconsistent. I pick a server, how do I know what the settings are? Some have different hit detection, some will have SL spawning, some will have etc...

Note that Realism servers would always have spawn on SL on, as switching it off makes the server Custom. So, I don't see a downside really.
 
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LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
117
0
Because you just don't practice well it.

We've never played together, how would you know?

A real tactic job in squad and platoon level can be already done with respawn on SL.

I'm sure this was TWI's intention, however I've never seen it work as it should. Players spawn on SL and simply run off. Not very interesting IMO, there's far more potential in the mobile spawn point concept. Has anyone ever seen anything more elaborate than this, have seen squads spawn on SL, coordinate and wait for others then move as a unit? I'd be happy to change my opinion if this was the norm.

I find it amusing you think it's so great as it is and are not more open minded in ways to improve it, but trying to convince you otherwise is not of much interest to me. Glad you enjoy it.
 

Flashburn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 13, 2013
723
9
0
Washington STATE
Indeed. I think the spawn on SL was well intended AND SHOULD have promoted more team play. But reality has shown NOT SO MUCH. Honestly, what incentive does a player have to stick with the squad? You can run off and get killed BUT whatever...its only a few seconds to wait. And now I know there is a bad guy over there. Rinse....Repeat.

With more wait time between spawns, or farther away you might not throw away your life. OR sticking with the squad might mean you live longer. More guns, more eyes.
 

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
38
Russia, Pushkin
Realism mode has a squad cohesion more effective :
In classic mode you start to talk and then act. Because the first ground of this mode is individual.
In realism mode you start to act and then talk. Because the first ground of this mode is squad.
wut
 

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how2skate_com

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 20, 2011
386
63
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The problem with that is not the spawn on SL, it's just that the rest of the squad system is broken (or doesn't even exist).
 

Piscator

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 26, 2006
672
83
0
So I gave the spawn on SL issue some thought and I think for the moment it would just be nice to have it optional and in order to improve it or at least make it half as bad I think the following mechanics might help and could be an option in between:

The TL initiates a set time (adjustable by admin or mapper) in which spawn on SL is permitted with a cooldown. So spawn on SL could be on for say 2 mins then 2 mins cooldown. Maybe the uses could be limited so that at least this awful feature becomes of some sort of tactical value instead of just spawn spamming from all sides. Does not solve the Star Trek feeling but would cut it at least in half.

@RO2Player

I think you do not get what my biggest problem with spawn on SL is.

So please answer the following question. What is more realistic?

a- Reinforcements arrive from the back of the front and walk up to the frontline

b- Reinforcements are being beamed down from space right into the battle and maybe even into the capzone or behind enemies

Easy one isn't it? That is the problem. It simulates nothing but teleportation and encourages careless gameplay. Your moral factor and human wave, resistance pockets etc. are just things made up in your mind. They do not exist and are surely not simulated in any way.
 
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