Remove tank ai gunners

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

The word Fix, patch, should be better than just dumb "rEmOvE" ?
Remove this, remove that. Slow a little, i think they are aware of this issue because they already tried to fix it.

Or I'm totally wrong

Except they didnt fix it, now the AI gunner simply shoots you in the chest instead of headshotting you. I just saw someone get banned from a server because people there were convinced his AI hull gunner was some form of a hack.

 

[DiedTrying]

The thing is, tankers can easily survive without the aid of the AI Hull MGer.

It's not like disabling the ai for that position will suddenly make the tanks extremely vulnerable.

 

[CaptHawkeye]

No, it's just a bad idea. The bow gun puts emphasis on the fact that if their is one angle you do not fight a tank from, it's the front.

That being said I wonder if the damage model takes into account the weakness of the armor near the bow gun? Historically they were dropped from post WW2 designs because they presented a vulnerability in the front armor.

 

[DiedTrying]

No, it's just a bad idea. The bow gun puts emphasis on the fact that if their is one angle you do not fight a tank from, it's the front.

Lol, nobody is attacking the tank.

The tank just sits and snipes with the hull MG. It's not a defensive weapon in the game.

 

[LordKhaine]

They don't need to remove the AI at all, just need to tweak them. If I've had any problem with the AI mg gunner it's that it has ninja fast reactions, rather than insane accuracy. It just needs toning down a bit. Removing the AI would essentially mean removing the position for the vast majority of tanks. And that is a step back.

 

[Lahr3n]

Removing the bots completly is no good idea imho. Because as it was posted before, you open the tank to humans, some dumb OR unexperienced player joins in an drives your tank around, making it very hard to aim or even get you killed. Also it's hard to get a tank manned atm.

Removing the hull-gunner and make this position human-only would be the best solution I'd say. Because the bot how it is now is better than any human you could put there, what makes being a tank-crewman a waste of soldiers

 

[Maj.Faux-Pas]

As far as I know and have experienced they don't operate the main gun. Just the other crew mg positions, which they're deadly accurate at.

When I get in the commander seat my gunner will fire main gun... sometimes.

But I agree, this is a good solution and would end the stupidity of tanks exit-camping around spawn points and focusing on infantry kills instead of engaging other tanks.

Tanks should be fighting tanks primarily, not infantry primarily.

 

[FBOTheLiuetenant]

Removing the bots completly is no good idea imho. Because as it was posted before, you open the tank to humans, some dumb OR unexperienced player joins in an drives your tank around, making it very hard to aim or even get you killed. Also it's hard to get a tank manned atm.

Removing the hull-gunner and make this position human-only would be the best solution I'd say. Because the bot how it is now is better than any human you could put there, what makes being a tank-crewman a waste of soldiers

Yeah, but the flip side to that is you now get a aimbot worthy AI gunner that can shoot/see through smoke and pop off split second headshots. And anyone who playes as the tank commander knows this. It is entirely possible to be on the top of the score board, in a tank, without having left the driver's seat.

Removing the bot from the hull gunner is exactly what people are suggesting. I don't think anyone wants to remove ALL the bots, because after all I like having a loaded main gun.

 

[TOPMO3]

I am fine with tanks the way they are now, but TW needs to significantly nerf the accuracy of AI gunners while firing through smoke. Right now, AI gunners disregard smoke completely, and fire through it as if it's not there. I don't mind them blind firing at me through smoke, but they shouldn't head-shot me while I'm crouch-sprinting between cover, and concealed by smoke!

 

[Major_Day]

I am fine with tanks the way they are now, but TW needs to significantly nerf the accuracy of AI gunners while firing through smoke. Right now, AI gunners disregard smoke completely, and fire through it as if it's not there. I don't mind them blind firing at me through smoke, but they shouldn't head-shot me while I'm crouch-sprinting between cover, and concealed by smoke!

All AI can do that anyway, whether they're in a tank or not, they could do it in Ostfront as well, but at least in Ostfront they weren't allowed to use the hull mg.

 

[hishnik]

Alone tanker is not really viable anymore (and plain unrealistic). I prefer to keep my bot driver actually. Same thing for my loader.

And the human crew, when a COD kid or a player unaware about tanking came into your tank it's just becoming hell.

That's why i prefer to see them patched or unable to fire than to see the return to the unreal one man tanking model of rost.

I would have to respectfully disagree.
Currently most encountered model of tanking: one person gets in, says no to human players, parks their tank overlooking a heavy infantry area and cooks his marshmallows on slow heat for the rest of the round.
So lets put it this way - a 6 man + one Squad leader squad is being suppressed by one person. One person who you cant even take out or suppress with regular infantry because he's sitting on the other end of the map. And now taken into a count just how fun the killing of Panzer is with T34, you get a whole new debate of what's "fair".

On another hand, say i'm that engineer, that just somehow managed to get close enough to our marshmallow cooking tank commander close enough to take him out. Here i am, dropping big ones in my pants running up to the tank, throw satchels on him, and as reward i get one lousy kill. Do tell where is the encouragement for me to repeat the experience, why should i risk (and most likely die 4 times in process) my life for one kill?
Let me put it to you in a less selfish way, perhaps. If i died 4 times in process of killing that tank, i just cost my team -4 reinforcements, while the tank i took out (or died trying) cost their team -1 reinforcements.

About your comment of the COD kid... Lets face it, we all have to deal with them, tank commanders arent any different, nor are you any more special, than the rest of us. Having that same kid being your Squad leader, or Commander isnt a lot of fun either.

Bottom line is - at most you should keep the AI reloader, rest should be manned by humans.

Thats my $0.02

 

[TOPMO3]

A good friend of mine also had a reasonable point to make about AI in a tank. If you're an engineer, and you run up to a tank, probably dying 3-4 times in the process to AI MG fire, once you blow up the tank with AT grenades (sadly, the only truly effective anti-tank infantry option at this point), you only get 1 kill.

So effectively, you wasted 4 reinforcement points for your team, getting to, and killing a tank which effectively has 1 human player, and 3 AI players. All tank deaths should reduce the team's reinforcement numbers by the ammount of human AND AI players in the tank. Otherwise, every tank death is only 1 reinfocement loss, while the effort to destroy it via infantry is much greater. There is no incentive for AT infantry right now to risk dying to tank. The reward isn't there.

 

[Spoon.]

All they need to do is leave the bots in the tank so that you can insta switch positions but not have the AI fire any of the guns at all, they just sit there in case you want to switch quickly to that position.

 

[Nikita]

They are still a little too accurate. Still cases of players just driving into the open, sitting back, and racking up the bot kills. My one annoyance is that the gunners often hit you a millisecond after you emerge from cover. I think they should ideall be programmed if practical to be less accurate when they first see you, then progressively more accurate as the length of your exposure increases. They should also fire more rampantly, so they have to reload more often.

Having them actually not shoot through smoke would be great as well.

Also odd how it's almost always a headshot...

 

[hishnik]

All they need to do is leave the bots in the tank so that you can insta switch positions but not have the AI fire any of the guns at all, they just sit there in case you want to switch quickly to that position.

Or perhaps instead of that, we just make the switching of positions a bit faster? Cause lets face it, realistic scenario doesnt have bots in tanks

 

[Sufyan]

I go tanking a lot and I would not mind if bots remain in the tank but they do not fire at will, or perhaps don't fire at all. So long as they occupy a position so that it can instantly be switched to, solo tanking is viable. If bots are to be allowed to shoot still, they should probably not engage targets beyond 30m, or else they will remain many times more effective than a human crewman.

 

[skullman86]

No need to have aimbot machine gunners when there is a coaxial, right? Just make the player do all the gunning if he is using an AI crew

 

[hishnik]

My thinking is on AI in the tanks is following:
Loader - you should keep (lets face it, noone ever would want that job, nor would you trust it to anyone)
Driver - while some (myself mostly included) questioning, i'm not caring enough to argue
Gunner - i'm voting for removing based on following argument: you alone, cannot man 2 guns at the same time outside the tank, you cannot simultaneously shoot the MG42 or Maxim + shoot your own MG34 or DP28, and you shouldn't be allowed that luxury in the tank either

I understand how frustrating it can be having a horrible squad mate, especially when you're stuck with them in the tank. However, it's still not a reason to have ability to lock down that tank. Because by the same exact token, you could have that terran00b with super system, load in before you, and take that exact tank you wanted. And he will not achieve anything, because he goes to take on Panzer head-on in T34, all round long, and you cannot do anything about him running into that stonewall all round long.

And if you would like to argue that i cannot compare the tank to a regular squad, lets have a chat about how useful it is to have four Anti-Tank rifles laying around and sniping people on the opposite side of the map from where the tank is.

Lets face it - we're in real world, not in fantasy perfect civilization. There will be tons of "useless" taking on the vital roles, throughout the game. I dont see how anyone be they tank commander (with first-5-minutes-in-this-game-driver-n00b), or rifleman (needing-the-smoke-on-objective-from-his-camping in-the-back-squad-leader) should get any preferential treatment.

 

[aceshot]

hi all can you move the commander's cupola left or right [when playing the TC ] in panzer IV if so what buttons?

 

[hishnik]

They are still a little too accurate. Still cases of players just driving into the open, sitting back, and racking up the bot kills. My one annoyance is that the gunners often hit you a millisecond after you emerge from cover. I think they should ideall be programmed if practical to be less accurate when they first see you, then progressively more accurate as the length of your exposure increases. They should also fire more rampantly, so they have to reload more often.

Having them actually not shoot through smoke would be great as well.

Also odd how it's almost always a headshot...

I think if the consensus will be "Leave the bots" they should be nerfed not only in how good they shoot, but also how well they see. And i'm not talking about the obvious, smoke, i'm talking about them "seeing" similar to players. A player, will not notice everything on the screen (even pumped up on coffee+coke+sugar high). Human will be applying the usual "scanning" method, which means most likely we wont notice some movement happening in the field of view.
So bots - should lets say be scanning left to right, in increments of 10m.
1st scan bot sees everything from left to right with an angle of say 50degrees, at say 30 meters, and if a player is hauling his rear on the right side of the screen 200 meters away, bot shouldnt see+shoot him right away. There should be delay + verification time added.
Same rule applies to when bot scanning far away, lets say at 100m, the field of view is much smaller, only say 25-30 degrees, so bot would not notice a movement right in front of the tank (unless of course that head is blocking his view )

Hope this makes sense