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Release: ArmoredBeasts 2.08

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
43
Gdansk, Poland
Well, as in the title...

Link to get ArmoredBeasts 2.08 player packages:

http://www.red.orchestra.pl/plug.php?e=maps&mtype=fch&fl=A&page=1&part=mutator

But remember - if you are an average player, YOU DON'T NEED IT ! :)

It's better to rely on automatic cache download in online games.

Only if you want to play/test AB on in practice mode, or put it on a server (or host an AB game on your comp) you need the package then.


Note that any previous version of AB up to 2.065 is simply not working today. And the 2.07 was never official release as it was not finished. So please do not use them anymore or better yet delete them, they ae not supported anymore.

2.08 is a slightly improved 2.07 with some new graphics, integrated EH-MG tracers by Evil Hobo, one new feature (realistic work of periscopic gunsights) and one problem workaround (for close range tank shell collision detection bug).

I decided to release the AB sources too (not a big deal) for this release, if someone is interested how the code looks like. It's somewhat dirty as it's ongoing project, but I added lot's of comments too. If anyone liked some idea and wanted to use it in his own work, he is welcomed to do this only please contact me first.

link to ArmoredBeasts 2.08 sources: http://www.red.orchestra.pl/page.php?id=430

A Credits file is included in the package with description of all 3rd party materials used in AB now. Thanks!



***********************************************************************************

The Readme:

In short - nothing new still. Beside new vehicles from RO update of course. But this is OFFICIAL release so a supported one ;)

Some new textures, periscopic gunsights work in different way, few bugfixes/corrections
of little things, tank sights at last calibrated up to 3000-4000m.

New features and changes are planned in next versions.

Installation instructions:

Important !!!

Completly remove everything related to older AB versions from your RO installation.
***********************************************************************

So clean up your Sounds, StaticMeshes, Textures and System folders from
all files named like "ArmoredBeasts2_something" or "AB_something"

Nothing should crash if you don't clean up, inportant files would be overwritten, but
this is advised as some old files are obsolete now and better to be removed. Older AB
versions are not functional, anyway.

Then copy all new files to proper folders (i.e. system to system, textures to textures
ect.)

Information about using the .ini file and it's options, should be added here in near
(?) future...


************************************************************************************

End notes:

The new Russian and German gunsight textures took me few days to make, scale and test them all, most is not new - rather made from elements of stock RO textures by creative copy&paste&scale, but I tried to make them look more realistic and closer to real thing. New is only Su-76 PG-1 sight texture, the StugIII sight slightly corrected, also IS-2 sight looks quite different now as it's based on availble picture of TSh-17 sight. The aiming marks of TSh-16 and TSh-17 are standarised and shrinked to correct size (you can estimate distances with them now, if you know how :). Two kinds of binocular textures - separate for Russians and Germans, both based on real photos and of course with correctly sized mil scales.

Maybe I release a pictures showing how to use various reticles for range estimation. In short - just like in real tanks ;).



Aiming marks are sized correctly in Su-76, StugIII, T-34/85, IS-2 and BT-7/45mm AT gun. I know no one really uses this, but I liked to make it correct. In German tank sights the aiming "triangles" are not sized correctly, they are still just same as in stock textures.

Note the new way of working for the Su-76 and StugIII sights. This is how they really worked. After adjusting range knob, the whole sisght rotated slightly and you got the correction for range, then you had to put the aiming mark on the target again :). I hope you will enjoy it.
In tanks it worked in similar way - the difference was, that in tank telescopic sights only the aiming marks (and not the whole FOV) were moving up-down. As it's a bit more coding (and testing, plus making new textures for Russians!), a similar modification of tank sights (if it is to be realistic) is more serious task and will take me some time to complete, so it dropped from 2.08.

Now about new vehicles. All vehicles from official RO update of course are in there, just like in 2.07.

The AB versions of new StugIIIG and ISU-152 should be released soon too. If it happened that I can't do them, Shurek know how to make them too. Whe already had AB 2.07 versions of those vehicles working, but those were of previous betas, so now we have to make them again. Stug should be quick, the ISU-152 gunsight needs some work to tune so it can take a bit longer.

I know everyone would like to see vehicles/guns from new MinionWorks packs (betas) working with AB, but we have to wait for it yet. To make AB compatible versions I need to work with the package source code, which was not released for current beta (and I understand this decision). The sources should be available for next beta of MinionWorks vehicle packs and AB versions should be available soon after (if I'm not too busy).


*****

Things to do in next versions/updates:

More realistic German sights with moving aiming points, same for Russian sights (T-34/85 and IS-2)

Review of the tank shell damage and tank health values - some tanks seem too strong after previous ad-hoc tunning, mostly the Tiger takes somtime too many T-34 penetrations to be killed.

Some other ideas (like more kinds of tank ammo... I dont want to mess with HUD yet so 3 kinds of ammo at most)

Further investigation of the shell collision detection bug - it's partially handled now, but I need to know why it happens more often in AB than in stock game.

Things to fix soon/known issues:

- the exit point from PzIVH turret - the player can be "stuck" on exit sometimes and have to jump once or two to release itself

Regards

Ami
 
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EvilHobo

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 22, 2005
2,613
192
63
Germany, NRW
Do you have the latest (EH-MachineGunMod) tracers?
EDIT: Nevermind, I gave you all the materials and code if I remember correctly :)
 

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
43
Gdansk, Poland
Yes I just checked that static meshes and textures are the same as in your last release. Don't know about the effect/bullet code, if there is any difference I will upgrade it in an update soon.
 

EvilHobo

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 22, 2005
2,613
192
63
Germany, NRW
Nah, I don't think there is any significant difference, the latest updates were more for MG handling issues than they were the tracers. I was just being forgetful, it happens sometimes...

Also, its good to see you've put the source code out there. I think it will help me with a little project I'm working on...
 

Бользен

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2008
60
0
0
Canada
Excellent work my friend! Will be installing it later today alongside the new EH MG mod :)

ps. oh, looks like the EH MG is already in the package... nice =)
 

TT33

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 2, 2007
571
159
0
cool good stuff m8 great work!

mostly the Tiger takes somtime too many T-34 penetrations to be killed.
Pz IV/Stug III vs IS-2 as well even from the side or turret hit possible hit-dedction error though.
 
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Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
43
Gdansk, Poland
Not new AB, just updated AB :p

I forgot to say one thing.

I would ask to report all observations about how new graphics work in different resolutions (something is too thin, too thick, if the quality of gunsights is acceptable (it's same gfx as stock one but texture was decompressed, edited and compressed again after all).

About one month ago my GFX card have burned, and I have to use my old backup GF2MX. So I was even not able to test properly the new game graphics (gunsights) in all resolutions, how they look with antialiasing on ect. I even didn't really see the Hobo's new tracers as I have acceptable FPS only at 640x480... Well any testing is at least difficult in such conditions... So please tell me if something is wrong with some texture. And of course - if you like them ? :)

Especially German ones looks now quite realistic IMO, exept for the central triangles - they are still too large, but at least not as large as in stock Tiger sight :). And Panther's scale is now centered. Russian textures are now closer to real thing but not exactly, it would require to make completly new graphics and I don't have time for that. Exept for Stug, Su-76 and binocs, the rest was was only a copy/paste work as I said.

I would ask also about opinions about working of periscopic (Su-76, StugIII, 45mm AT gun) sights - is it working ok in online play ? Don't know what could fail there, it was well tested in practice mode and checked once at dedicated server, but who knows. Do you like how they work now ? (I will not bring back old ones anyway, but just like to know ;P)
I still don't have much time to spend so didn't make any server tests, only checked on my comp/dedicated server if the new Su-76/StugIII sights work correctly (they did).

On the other hand 2.08 shouldn't have any code issues (other than unexpected, related to new features) and should be more reliable than 2.07 version - which was NOT a release at all ;-)

As I probably said, I also expect much less (maybe 90% less) close range shooting bugs, where shells seem to fly trough tanks and don't make any damage. They will still "seem" to fly trough, but penetrations will be calculated and damage applied - in most cases. You dont' have to report that, I still search for the main cause of the bug (i.e. why it happens more often in AB than in stock RO) to fix it properly.
I don't have any codein shell's "tick" section, there is some new code but it's executed only AFTER collision was detected... also checked that the AB tracer effect is not responsible for that... ) and will correct it when I find.

Regards
 
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Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
43
Gdansk, Poland
It will be added separately... as soon as AHZ sources are available. This should happen when next beta of AHZ vehicle pack is released, with open source code.

Currently the only thing I could do would be... just make new vehicles using the AHZ gfx and models from the pack, which I don't feel as a right thing to do just using part of someone's work, and anyway it would cost me much more work than just modyfing code of complete vehicles... lot of work that would have to be repeated later....

I would consider this option if I knew that the release of next AHZ beta will not happen for at least a month, then I would ask authors for permission of using gfx/models without the code - as a temporary solution.

The BASIC compatibility between AB and new AHZ pack should be retained even now - the combat between AB and non-AB vehicles/guns should be calculated just like in stock RO (stock armor ratings, penetration curves used), not so fun and far from perfect, but it can be played, there isn't anything invunerable/indestructable or something...
 
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Darkseed

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2005
458
82
0
Sweden
Thanks for the detailed answer, guess waiting is all we can do. Also thanks for AB in general, I would have quit playing tank maps in RO a long time ago without it.
 

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
43
Gdansk, Poland
It's very nice thing to hear that someone like your work, thanks :)

As for the AHZ vehicles, how long we have to wait for next beta or final release, check this thread:

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26323

Unfortunately, it's possible that we may wait for it for few months... I would like to see next beta soon of course, from the same reason as you, but it's up to the authors.
In case of such decision (no next beta soon, but going for final release in few months) I would probably ask authors to make an exeption from their rule and make the beta1 code available for me - they could be sure it will not be spreaded out, not possible to decompile from AB, and would not cause them any trouble - I would use unique class names as well. Well, not sure if decision is made yet about the beta2...
 

LdG-Vielfraß

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 18, 2007
3
0
0
Hi Amizaur, your mod is excellent, liked it from the beginnning and it even got much better now.

What im missing is a file (like a readme) that explains all the modifications in AB. I would like to create an AB revision chart (like a tabella) for my Clanmembers, including all AB modifications like effective armor strength and health points for all tanks (included in AB till now), penetrating power and dispersion for all tank guns, random modifiers on shot strength, multipliers for engine and ammo box and so on. Did I forget something?

Could look like this:

vehicle/health points Basic armor angle effective armor

Pz IV F2 550
-front hull 50mm 12
 

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
43
Gdansk, Poland
You are right, such docs and charts should be (and was meant to be) done long before.

I have only charts for stock game (they may be slightly shocking for many people;) ) but I have to do yet charts for AB tanks.

Well, I had one good excuse for not doing them yet. To check what armor has any tank, or what penetration has any gun, you just check real data (more reliable, better) and basically you got it ;).

Second reason was that some values (especially gun penetration curves) were considered as "basic" and were meant to be further researched/fine tuned. It's not needed now (everything is working as good as it can with current system) but will be when thickness/angle system is introduced. Well, I'll make new charts then ;).

There is not possible to make charts of armor thickness/angle because neither stock game or AB (yet) use armor thicknes and angle parameters. They just use "armor ratings" which can be understand as thicnkess of vertical plate equivalent to given tank's armor protection. I can only make charts of those values.
Things like armor quality and T/D are accounted for in some cases, and applied to protection ratings, so they may seem strange, but in most cases they reflect the real world ranges at which the armor/tank could be destroyed (to my best knowledge).

And such info (which tank can destroy which at what range) was posted on some AB thread, and also in 2.01beta Readme file. It's included in distribution. But of course charts are very good thing and I'll try to make some. General info how the system works was also posted, but I feel too that a revised description should be done (there were some minor changes, and one is planned right now).

So, thanks for reminding me this. I'm noting it high on my "to do" list.

Regards
 
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LdG-Vielfraß

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 18, 2007
3
0
0
Thx for your answer Ami, and btw your workaround for the collision detection bug (switching armor sides) seems to work nice.

I found a good method to get all the AB-values that count in online game:

1. I downloaded AB full version and installed it

2. I changed those entries in the AB.ini so that debug mode is activated in practice mode

3. I downloaded Lubjankow-Schiessbahn V 1.0 and put it in my maps folder (thats a shooting range for tanks with distances from 100-1000 metres)

4. I started a practice game with Armored Beasts Mutator activated on Lubjankow-Schiessbahn without bots (setting for bots = 0)

5. I fired hundreds, maybe thousand tank shells and read out all those values from the debug mode


I wrote down everything and made some quite good charts that reflect the most important values for online gaming:

1. A chart that shows every tank (included in AB yet) with vehicle health/engine health and armor ratings for all sides of hull and turret

2. Two charts that function like: Who can kill who on what distance on what side of the vehicle with what kind of ammo.
One chart for Axis, one for Allies.

It took me multiple hours and thousands of shells to do this, but its very interesting and shows how strong (or weak) the tanks really are/were.
A Pz III is not able to penetrate IS-2 hull front, doesnt matter what distance or ammo is used, and thats how it should be. In stock game its a joke, has nothing to do with realism.

But these charts exist only on paper, yet. I will have to make them perfect and transfer them to my PC, so that everybody could download them maybe on our homepage or elsewhere. I keep working on it, but I cant say when they are ready to release.

Would be helpful if I knew the exact parametres for random modifiers on shot strength and inflicted damage amount. I have no chance to read them out from debug mode (because they are not shown, I can only read out minimum and maximum values for each ammo type by shooting multiple shells). Can I send you my e-mail adress as PM, so you could send me some stuff to support my work on those charts? Then you would have time for other AB-projects and wouldnt have to deal with the charts.
But if you would like to create charts on your own, keep going.
I appreciate every new info about AB.


I found one problem when testing AB on shooting range:

The sight of KV1s is about 500m off when firing HE-shells, so when I shoot HE at 1000 metres I have to enter 1500m to hit my target.
The same happens on short distance, when I fire at 200m I have to enter about 700m. These are not 100% exact values, but should be about 500 metres off.
This problem only occurs when firing HE, sight for AP seems to work fine.


I could not test Pz IV H and BT-7, because those tanks dont exist on Lubjankow-Schiessbahn, but I will talk to our mappers so that they change tank setup on this map and give me the tanks I need for testing.

Thats it for the moment, I think.
Greetings to all fans of Armored Beasts, CU on the battlefield!:D
 
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