RELEASE: Armored Beasts Beta 2.0
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[TW]Wilsonam
VP, Tripwire Int.
Tiger elevation wheel is manual - as far as I know all elevation gear of the period was manual... and please do share all and any gunsights found 
Already sharing one - the SflZf1a of Stug above . Beside this one, found 1h ago, there are only the Tiger/Panther sight 3ds models that I found and I have already posted the link. The author states that they are accurate, and the triangles are in fact smaller than in game, but still seems much too big to cover 4 mils... 4 mils is only 0.225 deg and the sight covers 23-28deg (depending on source, Tiger binocular 23-25deg, Panther monocular 28deg, Tiger 9c monocular 26-28deg - it makes sense that with same 2.5-5x mag it has same FOV as Panther sight, so 28deg). So the big central 4 mil triangle would have width of about 1/111 - 1/125 of the whole FOV. That's very, very small. Only bit larger, than a T-34 at 1000m, in game you can barely see a tank at 1000m with 2.5x zoom... I'll post a picture how would such a sight (with 25deg FOV and 4mils/0.225deg triangle) look like...
First, how to aim from German sights: using the big center triangle, or the first small triangle ???
???
And now, how would Tiger overlay look if the FOV was 25deg and the center triangle was really 4mils like many people would like. 4mils = 0.225deg...
little small, isn't it ? Now what is wrong - the descriptions about 4mils triangles/marks, or the frequently published pictures of TZF9/12 sights ? Should those marks be really THAT small ? Or maybe it was 4 mils but of VISIBLE FOV which was about 60-70deg (FOV visible for the eye, 2.5x25 = 62.5, 2.5x28=70) so 2.5 times larger - but then it's useless for rangefinding purposes... The whole idea of mil is 1m at 1000m and this is 0.0573deg or 0.05625 by military standards... Hmm 4mils visible would be 4x2.5=10mils true angle. 10mil triangle ? How to use it for rangefinding ? :-/
P.S. For russian sights, look also here http://pedg.org/tools/ at the .doc files. There are T-34/76, T-34/85 and T-26 sights. I also had somwhere look trough T-34/85 sight... o here it is
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I suspect that in the TSh-16 range markings and the aiming mark were on the same plate and moved together down with range increasing, and the the horizontal line was stationary ? And the raneg was probably adjusted smoothly, one could set it between marks..?
Anyone from Russia, please find a picture of TSh-17 plate too !
. Beside this one, found 1h ago, there are only the Tiger/Panther sight 3ds models that I found and I have already posted the link. The author states that they are accurate, and the triangles are in fact smaller than in game, but still seems much too big to cover 4 mils... 4 mils is only 0.225 deg and the sight covers 23-28deg (depending on source, Tiger binocular 23-25deg, Panther monocular 28deg, Tiger 9c monocular 26-28deg - it makes sense that with same 2.5-5x mag it has same FOV as Panther sight, so 28deg). So the big central 4 mil triangle would have width of about 1/111 - 1/125 of the whole FOV. That's very, very small. Only bit larger, than a T-34 at 1000m, in game you can barely see a tank at 1000m with 2.5x zoom... I'll post a picture how would such a sight (with 25deg FOV and 4mils/0.225deg triangle) look like...First, how to aim from German sights: using the big center triangle, or the first small triangle ???
???
And now, how would Tiger overlay look if the FOV was 25deg and the center triangle was really 4mils like many people would like. 4mils = 0.225deg...
little small, isn't it ? Now what is wrong - the descriptions about 4mils triangles/marks, or the frequently published pictures of TZF9/12 sights ? Should those marks be really THAT small ? Or maybe it was 4 mils but of VISIBLE FOV which was about 60-70deg (FOV visible for the eye, 2.5x25 = 62.5, 2.5x28=70) so 2.5 times larger - but then it's useless for rangefinding purposes... The whole idea of mil is 1m at 1000m and this is 0.0573deg or 0.05625 by military standards... Hmm 4mils visible would be 4x2.5=10mils true angle. 10mil triangle ? How to use it for rangefinding ? :-/
P.S. For russian sights, look also here http://pedg.org/tools/ at the .doc files. There are T-34/76, T-34/85 and T-26 sights. I also had somwhere look trough T-34/85 sight... o here it is
I suspect that in the TSh-16 range markings and the aiming mark were on the same plate and moved together down with range increasing, and the the horizontal line was stationary ? And the raneg was probably adjusted smoothly, one could set it between marks..?
Anyone from Russia, please find a picture of TSh-17 plate too !
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You use the triangle in the center.Already sharing one - the SflZf1a of Stug above
First, how to aim from German sights: using the big center triangle, or the first small triangle ???
???
I was able to destory the Panzer IV F1, F2, the Panzer III, I did not try the other tanks, but I guess you won't have a chance.
Generally it will be very hard, and if you are alone you can almost forget it (if you are together with other people you can positionate that way that at least one of you can hit a weak spot). You have to be very close as well.
So the PTRD is not better than a modern anti material rifle anymore.
Generally it will be very hard, and if you are alone you can almost forget it (if you are together with other people you can positionate that way that at least one of you can hit a weak spot). You have to be very close as well.
So the PTRD is not better than a modern anti material rifle anymore.
Destroy is not the correct terminology, more like penetrate.
Even if it did penetrate, the round still had to find itself a soft bit of flesh to be effective, that why you need maybe 5-20 pentrates to be effective. It would never blow up ammo storage, thats a tripwire myth <smile>
Even if it did penetrate, the round still had to find itself a soft bit of flesh to be effective, that why you need maybe 5-20 pentrates to be effective. It would never blow up ammo storage, thats a tripwire myth <smile>
Dheepan
FNG / Fresh Meat
Think your wrong about that, I have a first hand account of someone describing blowing up the ammo storage of a tank with a ptrd. I'll need to find it, but I'll post it once I do.
Source was russian though.
Pretty sure on early war tanks you could do that.
Source was russian though.
Pretty sure on early war tanks you could do that.
If you penetrate side or rear armor of PzIII or PzIV in AB2 with PTRD and then hit the ammo, it will blow up without problem To penetrate 30mm of PzIII or PzIVF1/2 or StugIIIF side armor, you have to be at <600m, 90deg angle (+/-5deg) and a bit of luck. Within 300m you don't need luck, only good angle . If anything, the PTRD is still too strong, comparing to real life... Against PzIVH you have to be within 100m (if the skirts don't stop the PTRD bullet, can't remember now). Panther and Tiger have >50mm side and rear armor and you can forget about hurting them. Untill destroying of optics is modeled.
Now I will try this myself and see if it works in practice...
EDIT: yes, I blow up PzIII/IV with one PTRD shot if hit in ammo. If not, it blows after 5-6 shots. Penetrating shots, of course. Don't understand your problem. It's not a portable 76mm gun, it's 14mm AT rifle. And expect some difficulty destroying tanks with it.
To penetrate 30mm of PzIII or PzIVF1/2 or StugIIIF side armor, you have to be at <600m, 90deg angle (+/-5deg) and a bit of luck. Within 300m you don't need luck, only good angle . If anything, the PTRD is still too strong, comparing to real life... Against PzIVH you have to be within 100m (if the skirts don't stop the PTRD bullet, can't remember now). Panther and Tiger have >50mm side and rear armor and you can forget about hurting them. Untill destroying of optics is modeled.Now I will try this myself and see if it works in practice...
EDIT: yes, I blow up PzIII/IV with one PTRD shot if hit in ammo. If not, it blows after 5-6 shots. Penetrating shots, of course. Don't understand your problem. It's not a portable 76mm gun, it's 14mm AT rifle. And expect some difficulty destroying tanks with it.
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[TW]Wilsonam
VP, Tripwire Int.
What about something like that ?
Real SflZF1a sight - used in StugIIIF+/ StugIV / Hetzer...
New Stug sight ?
Of course it's only a try, I'm not a graphic artist.
Real SflZF1a sight - used in StugIIIF+/ StugIV / Hetzer...
New Stug sight ?
Of course it's only a try, I'm not a graphic artist.
Don't know if that was stated already, but the Tigers reloading time seems a tad too fast. Perhaps you can prolong it by 1-2 secs?
Tiger reloading time will be maybe bit slower. About 1 second. I don't doubt that Tiger cannon COULD be reloaded even faster (in about 5 seconds), for few shots, but average ROF will be probably increased to about 8s instead of 7s. The IS-2 reload time of 20-25s is just minimal possible from what I know. The projectile weighted 25kg and after it separate charge was loaded, in a VERY cramped space. It was trade-off, very powerfull cannon, that can kill anything in game in one shot (in most cases), but you pay with ROF. If Tiger and IS-2 noticed each other simultaneously, the Tiger could send first shot after ~8 seconds and IS-2 needed minimum of 20s to fire. This means Tiger or Panther could fire 3-4 shots before Is-2 managed to fire once ! For this reason in AT role it was used mainly to fire single shot (best from concealed position, or exposing only after spotting a target) or and withdrawn to cover for reloading.
P.S. And it didn't have driver's hatch, only small vision block. I have no idea WHAT opens there in game :-\, the self-made "hatch" will be welded again in the mod ;-P
I'm still searching for pictures of how view trough TSh-17 (IS-2) and TZF 5 (PZIII/IV) sights looked like.
Nice Russian binocs scale from WW2 would be usefull too.
P.S.S. As some older Russian tanks (T-34/76, KV-1) has quite narrow optics now (2.5x 15deg it's only 60% of PzIII/IVs optics field of view) it would be good to make also panoramic periscopic sights for them. I would need to know how they could look like. And next question - the periscopic gun sights in Russian tanks, were they fixed or could they rotate ? Could you scan horizon with them or only look ahead, and could you aim/fire a gun with them ? (if you could aim, they were probably fixed?). I guess commander's periscopic sight was able to rotate, but gunner's one was fixed ?
T-34/85 and IS-2 would also benefit from introducing conmmander/gunner periscopic sights, lack of periscopes was one of things that Germans were behind allies.
P.S. And it didn't have driver's hatch, only small vision block. I have no idea WHAT opens there in game :-\, the self-made "hatch" will be welded again in the mod ;-P
I'm still searching for pictures of how view trough TSh-17 (IS-2) and TZF 5 (PZIII/IV) sights looked like.
Nice Russian binocs scale from WW2 would be usefull too.
P.S.S. As some older Russian tanks (T-34/76, KV-1) has quite narrow optics now (2.5x 15deg it's only 60% of PzIII/IVs optics field of view) it would be good to make also panoramic periscopic sights for them. I would need to know how they could look like. And next question - the periscopic gun sights in Russian tanks, were they fixed or could they rotate ? Could you scan horizon with them or only look ahead, and could you aim/fire a gun with them ? (if you could aim, they were probably fixed?). I guess commander's periscopic sight was able to rotate, but gunner's one was fixed ?
T-34/85 and IS-2 would also benefit from introducing conmmander/gunner periscopic sights, lack of periscopes was one of things that Germans were behind allies.
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Please remind it, what was it about. If something in game is not correct, will be corrected if possible,
I possibly stumbled upon a cause of one bug. The one that missing AP shells hitting ground close to a tank, damage it (do engine damage usually). Happened two times to me today. Little bit of searching and one can see that the explosion damage radius for tank shells is set to 6m. It's later modified up or down for HE shells, but nowhere it is reduced for AP shells. So AP shells detonating few meters from tank could damage it... :-/ It's too late today though to check if it removes the problem... maybe tomorrow...
Any chance of making HE damage to tanks more realistic? Actually, you can kill a angled tank that can't be penetrated by AP with 4-5 HE shells instead. Quite annoying...