RELEASE: Armored Beasts Beta 2.0

  • Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
  • Weve updated the Tripwire Privacy Notice under our Policies to be clearer about our use of customer information to come in line with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) rules that come into force today (25th May 2018). The following are highlights of our changes:


    We've incorporated the relevant concepts from the GDPR including joining the EU and Swiss Privacy Shield framework. We've added explanations for why and how Tripwire processes customer data and the types of data that we process, as well as information about your data protection rights.



    For more information about our privacy practices, please review the new Privacy Policy found here: https://tripwireinteractive.com/#/privacy-notice

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
44
Gdansk, Poland
Again can't read those links now... :-( (will read them later, now turned the comp on just for 1 min to check something on the net) but. can't resist to add something :)

I'm not sure if you knew that, but I tried to account for both true and apparent FOV in the mod optics :).

We can't recreate realistically apparent FOV - one of reasons being that there are different monitor sizes and people can look at them from various ranges. But I keep the true FOV of in-game optics correct (to my best knowledge) and the relations between apparent FOV of various sights are also correct (if one sight has 2 times larger apparent FOV than other, it shows in game). This is reason why Panther's sight is so "large" and Stug's sight is so "small" in the mod. Actually it should be even bit smaller, I made it few % larger than should.
I assumed the whole monitor width to be 70deg of apparent FOV. If you keep your eyes close to the monitor, you can make it true. Although usually you look at the screen from greater range, the ganme sight can't extend outside of the screen unfortunately :). I made 70deg my "standard" because this is about the largest apparent FOV you can find in WW2 tank/gun optics. And also apparent FOV of Panther's TZF12 (2.5x28deg).

So Panther's sight takes whole screen, everything else is smaller. Stug sight has IIRC 5x8deg so 40deg of apparent FOV. So the visible part takes 40/70 of the screen.

Of course the "zoom" of the optics is not coordinated with the game "official" 85deg zoom of naked eye view. It can't be, and should not be (those 85deg of world vision is usually compressed to about 40deg of my monitor screen as I see it. Even with assumed 70deg apparent 1x FOV the things in game (and in sights, with correct 2.5 or 5x zoom) appear smaller than they do in real life (naked eye or optics eyepiece). But a bit larger than with 85deg standard. Untill we all have 32" screens at our desks, it can't be any better. I could of course assume 65 or 60deg apparent FOV standard, but then Panther's sight would be bigger than the screen and you would lose true FOV to the sides...

So in the mod, the Panther has 28deg of true FOV, Tiger 24 or 35deg (can't remember now), Stug 8deg, ect. Full screen means 70deg of apparent FOV (Panther sight) and everything else is scaled proportionally down. True FOV, apparent FOV and zoom are all tied together. The zoom for all sights is calculated taking 70deg in game FOV as x1, so x2.5 means setting the screen to 28deg, x5 = 145deg and so on.

Can't make realistic apparent FOV, but everything else is set to true numbers :) Compare this with stock game (the stock game apparent zoom (little lower), and the apparent and true FOVs (first fixed for all, second depending only on the first and the zoom, haveing nothing to do with real sight parameters). I believe my system is bit better.
 
Last edited:

mlespaul

FNG / Fresh Meat
ahhh...I did not know you had already considered (and configured) for both apparent and true FOV - excellent. I now realize and remember the changes in the panther and tiger sights in recent months - and I do thank you kind sir for the strong work, now that I've made the mental connection of the changes. I only hope it can somehow migrate to all the servers. I get disappointed when I surf around to the different servers and pop in a stug and see the old ZF 20E ;).

What has been your thoughts on magnification options on sights that had switchable mags? Have you mentioned this already on another string?

Keep up the fine work. Maybe someday when we're all rich and famous, Zeiss will invite us for a factory visit! :)
 
Last edited:

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
44
Gdansk, Poland
The sight in Panther G in the mod has switchable magnification from some time :). Also in Tiger E late (this version is in mod, but not used on maps, it differs only with sight model currently).
Of course it's done in a most simple way (the aiming marks doesn't change size, just zoom/FOV changes) but works.
In the future everything should work like in real sight. Aiming marks moving up and down (like in T-34/76 sight), and I believe that they should also change size when magnification is changed (the sight just couldn't work properly in other case). But this needs time to sit and code this... several hours at best. And new graphics (in proper scale) would be handy too. It have to wait untill I have free time again.
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
0
But please consider (if you did not allready) the new changes of the RO patches, like the now "official" custom vehicles and the reload button that is to be introduced with the next patch.
 

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
44
Gdansk, Poland
The new (custom) vehicles is the main reason of the 2.07 release (being tested now). I'm also correcting few bugs (some old, and also found few new ones during testing). But I can spend on it an hour or two every few days, so it's going slowly, especially testing :-(. The new (custom) vehicles, AHZ vehicles and gun are ready and working.

As for reload on key - of course, if TWI add it (on R or on "fire"), then I will remove mine.
 
Last edited:

djsatane

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 31, 2006
203
5
0
New York City
cuih.dyndns.org
I have been playing latest AB mutator a lot on FK#4 server. It runs Debracen B4. Last night I had interesting session. I ran out of AP rounds in IS2, and to my disbelief nearly every HE round I fired at german tanks at ranges 800-1000m resulted in 1 shot kills. This included Pz4h, stug and Panther. I didn't even have to aim in specific places, I would hit pz4 right in the back last part of the track and boom 1 shot kill, I hit panther in the front armor at 800m and boom 1 shot kill. This is HE rounds we are talking about here... Is that right? It doesnt feel like it. It was more effective than using AP in some cases...lol

One feature request. You all know this I am sure, if you have a 2 crew tank, and you ask your driver to a full stop, if he stays on the driver hatch and thus the engine is running, the tank will always have small shake to it, jumping out or jumping to MG makes it totally still... It should be totally still when running engine but not driving as well... I wish there was way to fix this.
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
0
Are you sure on the distance?
I tried that on the Tank Range map and was not able to replicate your findings on the Panther. Did not try the other tanks though.
 

Dheepan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Yeah the rumbling of the engine makes aiming those long range shots difficult sometimes.

Also are you planning on implementing crew kills soon?

Also the Is2 has massive rounds, by kinetic force alone they might be able to knock tanks out.

In kursk for example the IS-152 using HE shells destroyed tiger tanks at long range.
 

djsatane

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 31, 2006
203
5
0
New York City
cuih.dyndns.org
Are you sure on the distance?
I tried that on the Tank Range map and was not able to replicate your findings on the Panther. Did not try the other tanks though.

Yes I am sure on the distance, I can give you exact grid locations on Debracen as to where I was and where targets were, it was easy to determine as germans were basically coming out of their spawn road.
 

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
44
Gdansk, Poland
The anti-armor effect of 122mm HE shells in the mod was aimed at several HE hits to kill a German tank. The shells are massive, fast, have quite large HE charge and this combined with generally not the best quality of German late-war tank armor (brittle in all tanks exepti Tiger I) and even worse quality of the welds (all tanks), all this historically allowed Russians to use HE shells as long-range tank killers - more effective than AP actually (on long ranges). And also more accurate than AP :). Of course very rarely one hit was enough, but after 3-4 heavy HE hits heavy cracks could show up even on Tiger tank armor, much easier on other German tanks, often leading to disabling and abandoning of the vehicle. Not mentioning other possible problems - demolision of optics, suspension, tracks, or any non armored equipment that was hit, crew injuries and/or shock, internal spalling from brittle armor (especially eyes are vunerable, also face and hands), even engine fire (fuel lines were often broken from strong vibration/shock and leaking gasoline on the hot engine). All this damage could (and actually did) happen from heavy He shells bombarding German tanks, even Tigers. Optics usually would have to be recalibrated too, after heavy HE a hit in the turret :).
Tanks with thinner armor (like PzIII and IV) were even more vunerable, sometimes even could be penetrated by such shell (depenting on fuse setting). Taking this all together, being shelled by heavy 100mm+ He shells is NOT healthy thing in any tank, and especially in a tank with brittle armor, poor welds and gasoline engine. Few hits can do nothing, but also could seriously damage your tank and even disable it. This is why heavy HE shells are dangerous for tanks in AB mod. Especially 122mm shells.

Now the realisation of this idea is somewhat problematic. It not always works as was meaned to. HE blast damage of 122mm shells was set to level that several hits can kill a tank (there is no vehicle disabling or good damage modeling in game), also penetration of armor of 122mm HE is set rather high (it could penetrate Tiger's side, or PzIV front - now it's reduced in 2.07). In stock RO the 122mm HE penetration is 12, so easily penetrates PzIV front (8) too.

Tiger tank has 800 health points. 122mm HE does 950 points of damage (reduced to 800 now). The damage amount done to a tank armor is reduced to 1% (0.01) so it's 9.5 - but HE explosion ususally trigers the target tank's ammo hitboxes (don't ask me why, I didn't designed it ;) so it's multipled by 5. This means about 50 points of damage from single shot, randomised in 0.1 ...1.5 range results in 5...70 points of damage from single shot. So in theory more than 10 122mm HE hits would be needed to kill a Tiger on average, and about 6-7 for a Panther. If it happens after 1 or 3 shots, then something went wrong again and there is a bug (or undocumented feature ;-). I have to investigate that again and see the RedOrchestra.log logs of such cases (but bLogPenetration=TRUE in ArmoredBeasts2.ini file).

Now, the HE shells hitting any part of PzIV and sending it to orbit... probably they penetrate it (122 HE armor penetration is higher than PzIV armor) just like AP shells would... on the other hand I'm not sure at the moment if HE shells penetration is affected by striking angle, and it should be to some extend (one part of it, precisely).

I will investigate the problem again, when I can, log files from such strange occurences would be helpfull for me to understand what was happening (it may be something not easy to recreate). Be sure you have bLogPenetration=TRUE in ArmoredBeasts2.ini file, and after such strange things happens in game, exit RO (you may finish that round, but then exit) and send me the RedOrchestra.log file from System directory (I need the .log, and NOT the .ini !!!!). You can upload it somwhere and give a link to the file here or on PM.
 
Last edited:

Amizaur

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 18, 2006
275
3
0
44
Gdansk, Poland
Are you sure this happens ONLY in the mod ? Not present in stock game ?

If you are talking about normal engine shake, I believe this question should be adressed to TWI...
 

JDAM_NL

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 6, 2007
20
1
0
Netherlands
The shaking / vibrating occurs in stock RO as well. So it is something for Tripwire to sort out.

One thing though, the AB-mutator does not work with the new patch. It is no longer possible to fire the main gun. (and no, it is not that i did not manually reload):p. You can absolutely not fire the cannon on the tank.

Hope you can fix that. I really like playing with the AB-mutator.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
0
Nargothrond
Just getting back into RO, and haven't tried the AB mod.

Sorry if this was mentioned in the thread (13 pages).

Do you or have you removed the unbuttoned view for the Stug and Panzer III. It's pretty obvious that was a maintinence hatch, and even in game you can see it's unlikely somebody would be able to crawl on their chest past the foot pedals and still drive.

Assuming you even *can* remove it in a mod.
 

Darkseed

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 2, 2005
458
82
0
Sweden
Yeah I hate that silly hatch as well, wonder what they were thinking when they added it.

Anyway, please hurry and get AB working again, I refuse to play without it.