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Release: Armored Beasts 2.03 beta

I think I found it. Well... Seems that penetration calcs are made on both server and client. Server makes damage and explodes vehicles, but client makes his own penetration calcs to see if it should play ricochet or penetration sounds/effect. Couldn't just server order playing those effects ? Don't know...
Anyway, some time ago, maybe even in 2.0 or 2.01 I made a custom function with penetration calculation. But I'm poor Unreal coder, and then I knew about it even less than now, so I didn't made it simulated :-/. Well, I didn't know that it would run on both server and client, but other similar fuctions were simulated so I should make it simulated too.

I made this fuction simulated now, and after that I hear penetration sounds on client side, and proper penetration anims are played and no bouncing shells. Sorry it took so long, stupid bug... 2.06 will have sounds OK.

First thing I want to say is: EXCELLENT WORK!
This mutator is just awesome, I love the "tank sim feeling" when playing armored beasts. Wanted to tell you earlier about the ricochet sound problem, but now I dont have to any more. In online gaming I always heard ricochet sound when tank was penetrated, only when tank blew up correct sound was played i guess. Even the shells actually seemed to ricochet when they should not, although doing their damage to enemy tank. So I could kill a Panther with two ricochets from its mantlet using T34/85.:D
Now im waiting for 2.06 to get it fixed, but I love the gameplay of AB anyway.
Cant wait for this debug thing, will it be available for online players, too?
Would make it easier for new AB players to learn how the mutator works.
Those players often wonder how penetration is calculated, as they are used to stock RO tankfighting. Maybe they didnt read about it on the forum, so they accuse the mod being buggy or just bad.
What about the problem of HE shells causing damage on tanks?
It seems to be even doubled now compared to stock RO (probably because of the ammo box mutiplier being increased to 10x). So I could blow away a PZ4F1 or F2 (manned by a bot) with 2-3 HE shells from T34/85 (during online gaming). I know that using HE against tanks is what people call bug using, but it is done quite often on maps like Orel.
But im sure you will try to fix it in future. Just keep up your excellent work, as we cant wait to get even more realism than now.:)
 
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I found some kind of bug.

On the FK server I entered a Stug at spawn and recognised that one track was destroyed and that someone was in the commanding position.
I left that vehicle and chose a Panzer IV instead.

Yet after some time (~ 30 seconds) the Stug exploded and the killmessage looked something like this:
mat69 artillery_explosion XY.
 
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I don't think artillery was addressed with this mutator. Now I don't know a whole lot about artillery or tanks, but it seems to be a topic skipped over. Is there anything you can do to make artillery behave more realistically with respect to tank combat, Amizaur? Things like having tread/tracks disabled instead of insta-kill or maybe heavily armored tanks aren't affected at all. Well, that is all I can think of atm. I'm sure the rest of the people following this thread and mutator can pick this up from here. Though I understand if you don't want to venture here right now, because then you would have to mess with armor values for the tops of tanks (I think... heh I'm no mutator expert either :p).
 
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Arty... well maybe I could try to make it kill tanks with direct hits, and damage tracks with close explosions.

I see something sounding VERY interesting, on general modding section, but weighting 620MB... :eek:
Have anyone tried to download it ? Is it real?

If it really works, then it would be just good example what an experienced Unreal coder can do with RO.

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=298035#post298035

P.S. Please contact me if you downloaded and tried that new mod, I have few questions (can't download 620MB now).
 
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Arty... well maybe I could try to make it kill tanks with direct hits, and damage tracks with close explosions.

I see something sounding VERY interesting, on general modding section, but weighting 620MB... :eek:
Have anyone tried to download it ? Is it real?

If it really works, then it would be just good example what an experienced Unreal coder can do with RO.

http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?p=298035#post298035

P.S. Please contact me if you downloaded and tried that new mod, I have few questions (can't download 620MB now).

It's not 620mb, I've played on their server and you'll get is 9mb soundfile+8mb map+really small code files. And yes, it's for real. This guy really made locational crewmember killing, nade pickups and more.
 
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It's not 620mb, I've played on their server and you'll get is 9mb soundfile+8mb map+really small code files. And yes, it's for real. This guy really made locational crewmember killing, nade pickups and more.



It is well over 620mb if you download the entire package.

Now to get back on topic.... Amizaur, I'm looking forward ot your next release/update. Thank you for all you do..
 
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Have just tried this mod. Very nice! Well done!!
The only thing that surprised me was the gun traverse speed for the StuG. It seemed slow compared to other vehicles (e.g. Pzkpfw.IV). Was this done to balance the game, or is it based on historical values? Thank you, and again... super mod!

All historical values and specifications.
 
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Yes, thanks for passing that info Keystone. And thanks for discovering the bug in Panzerfaust weapon in online mode.

Sorry it takes so long, but recently I'm quite tired and didn't do much work... It would be faster but there were some problems with getting the awaited debug mode to work. In short, RO (and Unreal) has a chat spam filter, that filtered out most of the penetration calculations output... I had to drop the less important messages, shorten the rest, and try to make them coming from different classes to have bigger character limit. It now ony shows only the most important info, and I had to drop showing of damage calculations almost completly - they just didn't showed anyway, were filtered out as exceeding spam limits....

It now shows only

- range to target, shell impact speed (did I mention that I made more correct shell ballistics using real ballistic tables?)
- what tank was hit and what part of it - like "T-34/76 Front hull hit" - and it's base armor factor
- hit angle, angled armor multipler and final effective armor
- base "table" shell penetration and random modified effective penetration of that shot

now it should also write "Penetration" or "Ricochet" but sometimes it's filtered out, so don't count on it. Just look at final armor and penetration values, what is greater.

Then it usually should show final damage done (not showing all the calculations like damage type and multipler, random damage, hitbox damage - there is no place for it).

That's all but should make things more clear. Especially what part of target was hit and what was calculated armor and penetration values

***

Now the other problems, after fixing the missing penetration sounds I was all happy, checked it on dedicated server (set one and the connected to it with second game instance) and it worked. Yesterday Keystone after connecting to my test server said, he doesn't hear ANY penetration or ricochet sounds AT ALL - to my great consternation... Have to investigate this today, don't want to release another bugged version with no sounds at all. Not sure if it was Keystone's or mod issue yet.

The thing with panzerfaust was, that my code setting different pitch-up values for 30, 60 and 80m ranges in iron sights, and resetting pitch-up to zero again when not in iron sights (for natural firing from the hip) was not working in online mode. So initial 30m pitch up was not set untill one switched range, and panzerfaust was falling short of 30m. To overcome this you have to switch ranges untill returning back to 30m, but I want to fix this properly for 2.06.

What else... in the meantime I set proper limits for hull MGs (pitch and yaw), only don't have data for T-34 and KV hull MG limits. I will set proper elevation limits of tank guns today. The reload of tank guns on the R key is finally working, after I educated myself a bit about client-server code relations and how to pass commands from one class to another.
The burning wrecks are no longer silient, the wreck-littered battlefield sounds like true inferno now :). The silience of burning wreck bothered me from the beginning, but I don't know much about effects so didn't try to fix this before. Oh yes, and I tweaked many armor values... fixed temporar6y the HE bug (against tanks), not in the way I want to yet, they still trigger ammo hixboxes, but for now I just reduced the HE damage by proper amount and it works about OK.

Maybe I should just fix sound bug and make debug mode, and leave all those changes above for 2.07 and that would bring 2.06 faster... But I just couldn't resist before making small improvements when they crossed my mind :)


P.S. The traverse speed of Stug and Su-76 is not based on specifications, because there is no specifications - the gun was hand traversed and it depended on traverse mechanism ratio how fast you could physically crank it... It was based on my personal feeling about how fast hand traversed mechanism could be operated. Don't know how many degrees one rotation of the hand wheel meaned. On Tiger, it was 0.5deg. On light tanks, sometimes 2deg/rotation. If it was around 1deg/rotation in the Stug, then whole 360deg rotation would need 360 rotations of the wheel. How fast one could operate such wheel ? I believe not more than 2-3 rotations per second on flat surface, and when the initial inertia of the gun was overcomed. So 360 rotations. 2-3 rotations per second, 180-120 seconds needed to turn 360deg, so rotation speed of about 3deg per second. The Stug traverse speed in 2.05 is 360deg in 100 seconds / 3.6deg/s, so it's even faster than that. I don't think it could be faster, at least untill I see better data supporting this.
 
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Arghh... had few really poor days, spend maybe everything 2h working on the mod, and 2.06 is ready but I can't find a way to test 2.06 on a dedicated server, and some people report they doesn't hear any sounds in this version so I can't release it with possible bug worse than in 2.05 :-(

Will try to put it on a server today, and if it works then ok and it's ready, if not I will have to fix so maybe day longer.
 
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Thanks for understanding. I have test server now, and already tested the mod. It in fact doesn't work. All functional code works but the sounds of tank shells doesn't work at all... now I have to revert 2.05 and add changes one by one to find what caused that :( going to take some time... maybe I will put 2.05 + debug mode and release it as 2.06 if get it to work, and then will work to fix current code for release as 2.07...
 
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P.S. The traverse speed of Stug and Su-76 is not based on specifications, because there is no specifications - the gun was hand traversed and it depended on traverse mechanism ratio how fast you could physically crank it... It was based on my personal feeling about how fast hand traversed mechanism could be operated. Don't know how many degrees one rotation of the hand wheel meaned. On Tiger, it was 0.5deg. On light tanks, sometimes 2deg/rotation. If it was around 1deg/rotation in the Stug, then whole 360deg rotation would need 360 rotations of the wheel. How fast one could operate such wheel ? I believe not more than 2-3 rotations per second on flat surface, and when the initial inertia of the gun was overcomed. So 360 rotations. 2-3 rotations per second, 180-120 seconds needed to turn 360deg, so rotation speed of about 3deg per second. The Stug traverse speed in 2.05 is 360deg in 100 seconds / 3.6deg/s, so it's even faster than that. I don't think it could be faster, at least untill I see better data supporting this.
No data to say what the speed should be, but rather empirical thinking.
The guns of all the tanks are raised and lowered by hand.
I'm guessing that they are reasonably balanced, with the breach end being slightly "heavier".
Shouldn't the traverse of a hand cranked gun be as fast as changing it's pitch?
So wouldn't the PzIV pitch speed be the same as the StuG pitch and the same as the StuG traverse.
The same goes for the T36/76 and the SU-76.
 
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Note than when elevating the gun, you move few hundred kilos of the gun mass plus the mantlet mass (but this is very close to center of rotation). When rotating turret, you move several tons of the whole turret mass :).

So wouldn't the PzIV pitch speed be the same as the StuG pitch and the same as the StuG traverse. The same goes for the T36/76 and the SU-76.

PzIVH has electric traverse. Same T-34/76 (not sure if there were hand cranked versions). Su-76 has slowed down traverse, almost as slow as Stug. I made it a bit faster than Stug - I assumed the Russian gunned was highly motivated to protect the Rodina, and with doubled adrenaline from Germans in the front and NKWD behind his back, so it cranked faster than German gunner ;-)))))))) The true reason is that Su-76 sight has lower zoom and with the Stug traverse speed it seemed so slow that I expected complains...

What could be possibly slower would be PzIII turret (if it was really hand traversed, didn't check yet to be honest). The turret was relatively light, gun even lighter, so it could have lower traverse mechanism ratio and turn faster than Stug, but maybe not as fast as in the game now. Same goes for upcoming BT-7 turret. I need data for traverse mechanism ratio (how many degrees it turned with one wheel rotation) and maybe diameter of the wheel, combining this with turret mass maybe we could do some estimate... Or some historical data about PzIII turret traverse ?

P.S. I see, 132 or 88 hand wheel rotations for 360 degree traverse. Assuming 3 or 4 rotations per second as max, 360deg turn would take 22-30 seconds. Current value is 20s, little to short maybe...

T-60 - very light turret, everything possible...

***

New 2.06 is almost tested. I already found the bug that broke the sounds.

Bad news is, that I had to remove the feature of setting the tank shell speed (true or slowed down) on the server by ini file. I can't get a way to replicate the SpeedFudgeScale or my custom parameter that changes it from the server to the clients. If different shell speed was set on the server and different on the clients, this caused problems... Can't get around this, and have to remove this option untill I find a way to replicate the shell speed to clients. So it will be still fixed.

Not sure to what value should I fix it. I observed some problems on a server (not sure if this was the cause though) when firing from high velocity Panther gun (1000m/s) at very close range. So maybe true shell speed is not good idea if it can't be changed easily later. On the other hand, the original 0.5 is much too slow. I think about a compromise 0.75 speed. That would be 750m/s for Panther and I didn't notice any problems with Tiger gun of similar speed. around 750-800m/s

Still testing it.

Debug mode works ok.
 
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I already found the bug that broke the sounds.
Great. Thanks for your hard work on this mutator. I know it probably takes alot of time out of your personal life trying to hunt down bugs etc and you are sometimes debating whether anybody will even appreciate all your hard work. I appreciate it, thanks.

I observed some problems on a server (not sure if this was the cause though) when firing from high velocity Panther gun (1000m/s) at very close range. So maybe true shell speed is not good idea if it can't be changed easily later. On the other hand, the original 0.5 is much too slow. I think about a compromise 0.75 speed. That would be 750m/s for Panther and I didn't notice any problems with Tiger gun of similar speed. around 750-800m/s

Still testing it.
I would try to keep the shell speed as close to real life as possible. Maybe try .8 speed and then if no problems arise slowly raise the speed until you notice problems.
 
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I'm testing 0.8 global and 0.75 for Panther. I could of course use 0.75 for panther and 1.0 for the rest, but I want to keep relative difference in speed also, so slower guns ARE slower than high-velocity guns...

P.S. Still problems with 0.75 :-( On big open map, like Orel, even 1.0 speed would be ok, but on smaller maps that would mean many errors... :-(

***

Example of the debug output:

Dist: 9.77m, ImpactVel: 790.03 m/s
Tiger E front hull hit, base armor = 105.00mm
Angle: 24.92deg, mult: 1.17, effec. armor: 122.77mm
Shot random penetr: 120.49mm
Ricochet!

T-34/85 fired at a Tiger, but angle was too great. 105mm of base hull at 25deg angle worked like 123mm of armor.
Penetration was 120.5mm so no succes.

Dist: 22.73m, ImpactVel: 786.78 m/s
Tiger E front hull hit, base armor = 105.00mm
Angle: 3.22deg, mult: 1.00, effec. armor: 105.27mm
Shot random penetr: 123.15mm
Penetrated!
Shot damage: 366

Again T-34/85 fired at Tiger hull, this time at close to 0 angle. Effective armor almost not changed 105mm, penetration
123mm, penetrated. Damage after many calculations, including hitpoint modifiers, damage type modifiers and random modifiers,
was calculated to 366 points. Unfortunately, because of the chat spam filter, there is no place to show detailed damage calcs, also
the armor and penetration calcs showed had to be shortened i.e. "mult:" means angled armor multipler ect.
 
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