Reduce the accuracy for Hip Firing an MG

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Sight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 10, 2006
149
142
0
So true .... Furthermore MG's are super slow while hip firing...

SMG have such an advantage when it comes to movement, heck every weapon ...
 

Vesper11

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 19, 2011
201
68
0
But at the same time, there are many many more videos showing people totally pwning people in the face with the mkb/mp40/ppsh. As good as the MG34 is hipped, it's still not nearly so good as the above mentioned automatics.


The problem here really isn't MG's, it's a great number of game mechanics that need tweaking. And I stress the word tweak.
Automatics made for CQC should be facepwning in CQC, nothing wrong with it, but 10kg machine gun hip firing? Please, no. And it can be more effective in hands of a good player as you dont waste time to ADS, have larger magazine, better penetration and stopping power.


Tweaking, a lot of tweaking...

p.s. Automatics made for CQC facepwning at 150m+, now thats wrong.
 
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DesiQ

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 5, 2011
431
168
0
Australia
www.desiquintans.com
So true .... Furthermore MG's are super slow while hip firing...
It doesn't really matter, considering I need to put three or five PPSh bullets into someone's chest to kill them, whereas you only need one or two from an MG. Couple that with the MG-34's superior penetration, large mag, and how easy it is to hipfire, and you've got something that is really quite unbalanced. In that video the guy hipshot through the wall to kill someone. Can't pull that kind of crap with an SMG.
 
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Reise

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 1, 2006
2,690
851
0
Maine, US
They need a little more recoil firing from the hip, but not much.

It should be like RO1's recoil if firing from the hip while moving.

IMO what really needs fixing is how you can so quickly reload without being deployed. It should take a significant amount of time compared to the deployed reload.

I mean, he has to sling his MG/hold it in one hand, open the top cover, remove the empty mag, reach around and grab a new mag, fix it, pull the belt into place, close the top cover and rack the bolt into place.

Such a process should not be happening with the speed it currently has.
 
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hishnik

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 3, 2011
178
39
0
Or maybe we just make a simple tweak... we make hipfiring of MG34 be identical to DP... ;)

At this point, i really dont see a reason for anyone to even bother with DP. There are no upgrades for it, it's awful in usability, hell, it doesnt even penetrate half the walls that MG will.

Great video, what i liked the most is how REALISTIC it is /troll

Just for gigles... http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=69613 has some "interesting" posts about MG's... I'll send them this way, so maybe they could weight in on this topic...
 

Baine

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 2, 2006
196
39
0
One of the reasons he was so successfull - enemy did suck. And what the hell is up with that settings. Everything black except for the enemies. Geez.
I mean i don't have a high end machine, but i run the game on the highest settings i can get, and while it stutters in between it looks good. But what that guy did is just wrong.
 

Holy.Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
1,427
91
0
I have disagree with these:
Apos said:
- deployed MG recoil is unrealistically huge
- deployed MG is easy target for SMG/Semi/Bolt/Sniper players
- hip firing MG recoil is fully manageable, same as PPsH recoil in RO:O or even smaller, with some practice
- hip firing MG is either effective on close and medium range (you can easily kill a guy at 80 meters)
- hip firing MG player is enough fast and effective to play as first line assault

  • MG needs to be deployed in a good spot in order to be effective killing weapon. Deploying it is not a good idea when field of fire is simply too wide for an MG operator to control it. And it's good to have some support to help an MG cover the area or distract/kill the enemy shooters said MG can't for various reasons.
  • Hip firing depends on the players, I think. Sometimes I am able to kill three guys from 10 meters, and I can still fail to kill one man from 2 meters. Maybe I need more practice, because when I decide (I mean that I am not suprised when on the move) to shoot from an MG it's more often than not from deployed position.
  • I've yet to see medium hip fire shoots and first line MG doing the same thing.
  • It's entirely possible to aim well enough to kill long distance targets with LMG (some people are even claiming it's too accurate), German MG is even capable of single firing. I could say that recoil is manageable. Unrealistic? I've seen various opinions on the matter.
 

Westernesse

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 11, 2011
406
68
0
In addition to the graphics tweaks he's got to make Russians stand out light Christmas lights, I have to wonder if he's using some sort of other hack because he always turns and fires the second before a Russian can flank him for the kill. He was within one second of being flanked and dead at least 20 times in this video. In my experience you sneak up on some enemies kill 3, an enemy pops up down the hall and gets a wounding shot off on you, you kill him and then another guy pops into the hall behind you at the same time and you never see and your dead.

Maybe Russians really just suck in this vid, but he's had to of killed some of those guys 4-5+ times and its really obvious where he's shooting from I mean they retook B and not one of those guys walked towards D and flanked him for the easy kill after he killed them 3 times? In my experience with a lvl 50 MG-34 you can count on something between 1 in 2-3 germans getting a random hip fire shot off that wounds you a few of those wounds and your dead with no HP. Maybe its my bad for playing allied MG.
 

MrCookie

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 15, 2011
5
1
0
It's bad to play allies anyway... Also this video shows how awfully noticeably are allies, with low graphic you can easily spot them in any place.
 

Apos

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 3, 2007
1,749
1,436
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Europe
www.enclave.pl
I have disagree with these:


  • MG needs to be deployed in a good spot in order to be effective killing weapon. Deploying it is not a good idea when field of fire is simply too wide for an MG operator to control it. And it's good to have some support to help an MG cover the area or distract/kill the enemy shooters said MG can't for various reasons.

I've spend so many hours with LMG weapon and I can tell you that you need a lot of more skill to play it "properly" in deployed position and don't die a lot. I usually manage to get best score in team, but I know that with SMG I would get the same but easier. There is also another easy way - hip firing MG.

[*]Hip firing depends on the players, I think. Sometimes I am able to kill three guys from 10 meters, and I can still fail to kill one man from 2 meters. Maybe I need more practice, because when I decide (I mean that I am not suprised when on the move) to shoot from an MG it's more often than not from deployed position.[/LIST]

If you can't kill somebody from 2 meters that's a hit detection bug. I can kill a enemy up to 100 meters shooting from hip, which is simply wrong.

[*]I've yet to see medium hip fire shoots and first line MG doing the same thing.
[*]It's entirely possible to aim well enough to kill long distance targets with LMG (some people are even claiming it's too accurate), German MG is even capable of single firing. I could say that recoil is manageable. Unrealistic? I've seen various opinions on the matter.
[/LIST]

Conclusion is: deployed MG should be way more useful, so players would think about hip firing as an option, not as best way to use LMG.
 

Holy.Death

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 17, 2011
1,427
91
0
Apos said:
Conclusion is: deployed MG should be way more useful, so players would think about hip firing as an option, not as best way to use LMG.
I agree that hip firing should be considered as an option, but what do you mean by "deployed MG should be way more useful"? You mean to decrease effectivness of hip firing? I would agree, but how to do that and not affect the weapon when it's deployed?

Often when an MG operator is killed happens due to lack of teamplay. I did play as MG'er yesterday on Comissar's House and I had very good spot on the last German defense zone (I don't remember the name of it), overlooking right flank and front of the house. I was able to kill +10 tangos before Soviets overwhelmed me with their number (simply there were too many of them for me to kill them all it on my own) and decided to end my breath coupon.

Why I died? Because nobody supported me in any way. Good elite rifleman or a few bolt-action riflemen covering front windows of the house would let me focus on right flank or another MG covering right flank and I would suppress people inside the house. Many people for certain have no idea about setting zones of fire in correct spots.

Making all weapons/soldiers much less accurate (to the point they won't be realism-accurate, I mean) will do more harm than good if we have realism in mind.
 

Gaizokubanou

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2011
525
76
0
Where's Joseph Nader and the fanboys now? "Oh, it's pretty easy to do that IRL and any trained soldier can do the same". Were all TWI employees drunk and high during development? WTF was wrong with the guy(s) who came up with these design ideas? Jeez.

Look how the floors and walls are black so that Russians stand out. The creator of that video footage used some lame config setting to exploit the game.
 
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LOOY

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 12, 2009
69
25
0
The MG needs a total overhaul in the way it works. Deploying should be a separate key to ADS and you should be able to ADS while undeployed and become reasonably accurate, there should be almost no recoil while deployed and hip fire needs to be slightly less accurate.
 

Gaizokubanou

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 5, 2011
525
76
0
That completely nullifies his being able to shoot the MG so well? sure.

Everything in that video can be done better with SMG. So yeah, using that video to claim that MG hipfire is too good is misleading because other automatic weapons does it even better.

Also most of the kills in that video weren't even aware of the MGer. MG34 being unrealistically silent could easily help you go unnoticed, and killing targets that are not aware of you is pretty simple with any automatic weapons.

Only thing I can add about this is that there is a HUGE discrepancy between DP28 and MG34 hipfire, to the point where it feels like DP28 has larger free aim room. Or it could just be that the round magazine for DP28 makes it harder to eyeball where your gun is pointing, but that's something to think about imo.
 
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LugNut

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 12, 2011
2,288
117
0
Definitely way harder to hipfire the DP, I don't mind the accuracy of the MG's in QCB, but at 100m from the hip? Really? Just a round or two to hit someone?

Instead of nerfing the gun, if there was proper inertia and clipping, it'd be a PITA to rush around like he does with such a heavy and big weapon. I'd rather see that.

And the vid settings.... so lame. I hate that the russians are always lit up like pumpkins as it is, and just using that as an exploit is weak.
 
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