Tactics Questions about Tanks...

[ReVoR]

Seems no matter what side I'm on, what tank I am in, I get 1 shot...or at the most I survive a round or two before brewing up.

Meanwhile, the majority of my shots bounce off the target. When I say majority, I really do mean it....I just had a go on Arad (on one of the FK servers) and had about 35 out of 40 shots bounce, the other 5 hit but nothing killed. I had about 8 tanks blow up under me in the process. Then I got a 1 shot kill on moving target...followed by another 20 minutes of bounces and instadeath.

I've been playing the game for a few weeks now and the story has always been the same.

So my questions are...what am I doing wrong? and what are the other guys doing right?

I've angled my tank @ +/- 11 and 1 oclocks, tried head on, 90 degrees, all combined with/without hull down...you name it.

So...unless there is a largely concealed exploit in the game or cheats getting past VAC...am I just that unlucky?

 

[K Rohm]

No, it's not a cheat/mod/whatever; it's just 'one of those things' in the game.

There have been nights when I have been BULLETPROOF, even in a PzIII vs multiple T-34's, and other nights when a T-34/76 will shoot my Tiger at 800m with me angled and STILL get a one-shot kill.

To test this, one night I ran a solo Orel map and jumped in a Tiger in the German spawn. I lined up a perfect 90-degree shot between the tracks of a PzIII from twenty meters away, and guess what? It took 3 DIRECT HITS to kill the PzIII...I was completely amazed. I then switched over to the Rus side, and lined up perfectly good shots in a T-34/76 against a SU-76, and guess what? It took FOUR hits to kill the gun. Now, completely out of sorts I switched back to the German side and pounded a Tiger with a PzIII- on 2 out of 5 attempts I got one-shot kills aiming between the tracks with APCR. On one attempt I got a kill using standard AP, but it took seven shots to do it in the same location.

I don't know what the physics are, or how the game engine handles penetration or whatnot- I just know that there is NO WAY an aging PzIII is going to deflect ANY direct hit from a Tiger's 88 at such close range- and a SU-76 shouldn't be able to deflect 76mm fire to it's side at all. Maybe someone can figure out some fancy way to explain all of this, but regardless of what the math may or may not say it's 'just not right' for some reason.

I shudder to think of how powerful PzI's and II's would be in the RO world- or, for that matter, how weakly a Ferdinand's main gun or ground-mount 88 would perform!

OTOH, if one does as I do and simply accept the RO world as being distinct from the Real World, RO becomes much more enjoyable. Just forget the Real World performance of the various weapons and adopt the mindset that the RO world IS the world and everything performs just as it should. You'll be a LOT happier, I guarantee it.

 

[ReVoR]

Well said man...thanks for the input. Frustration is the biggest obstacle I have to overcome before I can really enjoy the game.

I think I'm going to try and be more mobile from now on, I've got as good a chance of surviving on the move than standing still in a slugging match anyways.

 

[Vonreuter]

lined up perfectly good shots in a T-34/76 against a SU-76

Why were you firing at your own tanks?

 

[melipone]

I'm not much of a tanker myself but heres a couple of things to get you started (and will probably be criticised by some better tankers on here):

Even if you penetrate the tank, unless you hit a vital spot (stored ammo) then it won't blow up in 1 hit afaik. Have a look on this website in the Downloads/arts section.

Shoot at the flattest angle possible by going for the closest part to the "corner" (where the side armour joins the front armour) of the tank.

Theres no point shooting in the same place more than once if the first one bounces off..its never going to penetrate so either move to get the angle flatter or shoot at a different spot.

The type of tank you have determines your tactics..If you have a tiger, panther or IS2 then you can be quite cocky and just find a nice spot, angle at about 10.5 to 11 o'clock (or the opposite) and get kills. If you have a smaller tank like the Panzers and t34's then its usually best to try to flank the larger tanks and shoot in the side (in ammo box or he will just angle and kill you before you reload).

Use your lean buttons to set the range. Learn to judge distance with these so that you don't have to learn the different shell dip of all the tanks. You don't have to be exact so just take a guess and see how close you get. After a while you'll get used to it. If you don't use lean keys to set the distance then you have to judge not just the distance (how high to shoot) but also modify that by how fast the shell is fired from the gun. If you set the distance its much easier imo.

Manuevre so that only your turret is visible to the enemy tank. Aparently this is the best way to play because its hard to penetrate the turret, and when you do its usually not a one shot kill, but I personally rarely hull down. Probably a good idea though, and of course it allows you to sneak behind cover after each shot too, but you need a teammate for this to work the best (you can be reloading while your team mate moves you behind cover)

Infantry combat is better
​

 

[Boogerhead]

Where you hit makes a huge difference. If you don't know that, try playing Berezina in a pziii against the 14.5mm AT guns on the second line. If they have a good gunner, you'll find out in a hurry. Otherwise, you can be pretty darn safe.

-That- said, I don't know the strong points, either. =)

Things work both ways. I seem to recall that the KV and pziii are really weak on one side, so 1 o'clock angling gets you different results than 11 o'clock.

 

[slyder73]

Why were you firing at your own tanks?

Ummm....he told you... to test the issue the thread is about.

As for the tanks, I've had the same frustrations, and tried the same kind of tests. It seems completely random sometimes whether or not it's a 1 shot kill, even when the rounds hit the same "sweet spot". Does anyone know if there is a chance factor, or a percentage probability of scoring a 1 hit kill for locations on a tank?

 

[ReVoR]

I've also experienced kills when the round clearly bounces off the target. Just another oddity for the list I suppose. Had 3 rounds bounce off a halftrack today too *sigh*.

Things definetly do feel random. I deflect the same number (if not more) of rounds in a PzIV than I do in a Tiger or Panther for example. I've never had more than 3 rounds bounce off me though, and that only happened twice.

Normally I get 1 shot, or have a round or two bounce first....but whether I am angled @ 45 or not makes no difference. I've had DOZENS of rounds bounce off a single T-34 or Panther when I've been the guy shooting at them, meanwhile people shooting at different angles on the same target also had their shots bounce. I witness this often...chance can factor into it a bit, but at that rate there has to be something else affecting the game to cause those results. Often I find the people who deflect the most rounds also get the most long-range single shot kills.

 

[smokeythebear]

Heres some suggestions, not a huge tanker but I know a few tricks:
-Stay Hull down, as in park your tank behind a nice big rock so only your well armoured turret pokes out.
-Learn a tanks weak spots, so if you do find yourself looking at the side of a tiger you can take it out in one hit.
-Tank with a teamate
-Scout with binocs when not in combat
-Ask flook, he seems to know what hes doing


But your right tank combat is still kind of messed up, but I guess it can't be easy for TW since infantry is the main game. The one thing that really bugs me though is how shells bounce off tracks. Not sure if that is intended to happen but it just doesnt seem right.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

i used to be an average tanker on maps like arad, my kill ratio was like 1:1

but now i discovered the majic powers of adjusting your sights on distance!!
its true, i used to think sights were for losers and that it was unnecessary. until i used them about 1 week ago for the first time.
since then i NEVER miss a tank and i can wreck havoc on the enemy team.

my tricks are: when in tiger or panther, place yourself as far as possible of the enemy, basically stay at spawn and engage them from 600 to 900 meters. because noob tankers will have a verry hard time hitting you so far, and the gun of the german tanks mostly get 1 shot kills at that range.
avoid having enemy tanks within a 600m circle around your panther or tiger

when in pzIV stay close to cover(in village, river, behind forest), ambush them. make it so that they cant engage you over 300 meters, the fast turret traverse and reload is a major advantage in ranges below 400 meters for tanks like the PZIV. dont engage t-34s beyond 400 m with it

follow these rules, learn to estimate distances, at angled tanks aim for the corners of the armor, or between turret and hull. and you will be a killer on the field.

oh yeah, if possible only show your turret to the enemy, its a real pain in the ass to estimate the distance of a tank you can only see partly

 

[Lt_Kettch]

Perhaps these datasheets will help you
http://www.redorchestragame.com/index.php?categoryid=3&p13_sectionid=2

They show where the tanks are vulnerable could be useful.

 

[[=KAS=]doomed]

my tricks are: when in tiger or panther, place yourself as far as possible of the enemy, basically stay at spawn and engage them from 600 to 900 meters. because noob tankers will have a verry hard time hitting you so far,

Problem with this is every "Mike Wittman" and "Otto Carius" does the same thing, and the Germans end up getting raped because they don't actually cap anything.

 

[Solo4114]

Seems no matter what side I'm on, what tank I am in, I get 1 shot...or at the most I survive a round or two before brewing up.

Meanwhile, the majority of my shots bounce off the target. When I say majority, I really do mean it....I just had a go on Arad

Stop right there. Arad is a terrible map for tanking. Unfortunately, it's also a popular one because people don't really know how to tank. Arad is basically a shooting gallery. People drive, park, and shoot. There's very little maneuvering, and very little terrain to take advantage of. If you want a good tank map, Black Day in July is your map. Just a friendly tip.

Ok, continue please.

(on one of the FK servers) and had about 35 out of 40 shots bounce, the other 5 hit but nothing killed. I had about 8 tanks blow up under me in the process. Then I got a 1 shot kill on moving target...followed by another 20 minutes of bounces and instadeath.

I've been playing the game for a few weeks now and the story has always been the same.

So my questions are...what am I doing wrong? and what are the other guys doing right?

I've angled my tank @ +/- 11 and 1 oclocks, tried head on, 90 degrees, all combined with/without hull down...you name it.

So...unless there is a largely concealed exploit in the game or cheats getting past VAC...am I just that unlucky?

No exploits, as has been pointed out. And like I said, Arad is a TERRIBLE map. It's all close range combat anyway -- most of the time you're fighting at about 500m, so pretty much all the tanks can be penetrated frontally. With a full server, Arad basically is "I angled my tank, fired off a couple shots, killed one or two guys, and then got killed myself." That's it. That's the map in a nutshell.


So, a few tips here:

- you're already angling, so that's good. If other people are angling, you have to either move, or find a "Sweet spot" to shoot at where you can still damage them. Or switch to HE. A lot of people are dumb enough to hold still while neither of you can penetrate, but you can still fire HE rounds at them.


- MANEUVER. On a map like Black Day in July, there's a ton of terrain to take advantage of. You can really see the differences in tank design on maps like this. I'm assuming you understand the concept of "Hull Down" but this also comes into play in maneuvering. You can drive around and take advantage of the dips in the terrain to hide your tank and let you close with the enemy.

- Learn the strengths and weaknesses of each tank. The Tiger is made to shoot from far away. the Pz III is better used in close to get maximum damage. The T-34-76 is REALLY fast (10km/h faster than all the German tanks), but needs to be relatively close to kill the enemy. The Pz IV H is a good all-round tank, but you can take advantage of its long barrel by engaging the enemy at upwards of 600m. And so on and so forth. On a good map, knowing your vehicle's strengths and weaknesses will help a lot.

- Team up with folks! It's sad to say, but if you're playing a tank map, you do need to work together. Travel in groups. Don't just race off on your own. I admit that I have a tendency to "lone wolf" it. I also have a tendency to die a lot due to being ganged-up on by enemy tankers. You need to travel together.

- Team tanking with a GOOD team tanker will save your life and let you kill a lot more people. But, it requires good communication, too. Which brings me to...

- Communicate. Use your VOIP. A lot of times the VOIP channel is quiet until one person starts talking, then everyone chimes in. Some folks won't talk, of course (some don't have mics) but if you get on a good team, they'll coordinate and you can have a TON of fun.


- Practice ranging your shots, and pre-range your gun. When I hop in a tank, the first thing I do is (depending on the map) set the range to a good mid-range level for the map, and adjust accordingly. I'm pretty good a guessing how far away a tank is now, and it helps with gunnery a LOT. He who hits first may hit last as well. A good way to do this is to download Mormegil's tank range map. An hour or so practicing on that and you'll start to be able to get a good sense of distance. Then you can sight your gun in, aim, and hit the guy while he's lobbing shells over your head or dropping them 50m in front of you.

 

[SchutzeSepp]

yes arad aint the best tactical map, but its the best map where you can learn verry fast estimating distances, positionning,... maps like BDJ are maps where good tankers shine out, and tactics are usefull. but the learning curve is to steep and slow for beginners.

 

[slyder73]

Problem with this is every "Mike Wittman" and "Otto Carius" does the same thing, and the Germans end up getting raped because they don't actually cap anything.

Agreed. The basic point of this game remains the same, either be in the capzone attacking to cap or in the capzone defending. If you are not in a capzone you are completely useless to your team. And yes, you are still useless, even if you can hit a guy 1000 yards away as he drives to the capzone that you are looking over in the distance. For every one of those you hit, 3 more will get into the zone and you are nowhere nearby to stop the cap.

 

[Oberstjon]

Put simply, you need more prative ReVor. Go find yourself a tank room that isnt full and pratice. You can pratice off line also vs the bots. Learn the tanks, their weapons, and find one that suits your style. Every tank has its own strength and weakness.

Thankfully nobody can just buy the game, jump in a tank and start killing.

P.S. Learn what enemy tanks look like

 

[sharpshooterklj]

My tanks usually do better with the enemy at the 1:30 or 11:30, only the Panther should really have enemies at the 1 or 11.

 

[ReVoR]

My tanks usually do better with the enemy at the 1:30 or 11:30, only the Panther should really have enemies at the 1 or 11.

or rather 1:30 and 10:30 I take it?

 

[Spawn]

What I've also found annoying, even since the mod, when a tank angles itself, but you've got a good, flat shot at the side of the turret, it will still probably bounce off, because the rest of the tank is angled. I think it's just a huge hitbox that covers the whole tank.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

not completely true, i take out lots of angeled panthers with my 85 on the side of thier turret, also hiting the side of a tiger turret does damage even with a 76