Questionable features

[UserSD]

Taking control away from the player is indeed bad. It'll add to the difficulty, i'm sure of that, but i'm not sure that addition will be to the benefit of the overall game experience. Then Again, I didn't try it yet.

However, i'm sure there are ways to make cysts and slashers disrusptive without making them take camera control away from the player.

The camera is pretty important in fps games, and having it spun around without control (It has been done before and it NEVER felt right) ends up being disorienting, making you sick, and an overall nuisance. This is true in non combat situations, and ESPECIALLY so in combat.

This is especially bad in a fast paced game. I can't say for certain until i've tried it, but this seems to me like it will be more of a bother than an actual challenge.

I'm more of a fan of the push/pull idea someone said earlier. I'm not sure how easy that would be to properly implement due to the multiplayer aspect. Lag and Desync is generally an issue with those kinds of mechanics in other games, but then again I know jack **** about programming and netcode in general.

 

[Player 1 + Player 2]

There is a difference between an annoying game feature and difficulty

 

[Savage Rodent]

Honestly I can't really think of a counter to this. It's really the player's fault for getting into that situation. I'm still not a fan of the mechanic, but it definitely makes clots more dangerous (I don't know what the difference between cysts, slashers, and clots are).

Also, if this new mechanic is meant to make the game more difficult, then why are there flesh pound and scrake screams(well more recognizable/louder screams) on waves they spawn? That would make the game easier wouldn't it?

Like what some people are saying, I guess we'll have to wait and see how everything plays out. Maybe we'll be surprised at how good these mechanics are with the rest of the game.

 

[larkstongues42]

It very much does from my experience. Like it or hate it, it adds to the difficulty in my opinion. It makes clots an even greater threat when trying to deal with a situatiolet me shoot that charging FP ...and clot grab.

But as a I said, well be looking at player feedback as they play the game and refining the kf2 experience.

There's good difficulty and bad difficulty. This seems like bad difficulty.

Rip panic comboing, lets just make fakedplayers impossible to kf2

If this is going to be part of KF 2 "experience", ill just stick with KF. Like it or hate it, it limits player interaction, and player interaction is the way player communicates to the game. KF was great on this aspect, it was mathemathical zombie shooter, where skill definetly played huge part in survival. I am quite sure many people agree on this one.
We havent seen any combos, we have grabbing clots that spin you, everything so far is very much killable with m1 m1 m1.

I had high hopes, but "refining" KF experience definetly was moral amputation from PC gamers.

Yes.

 

[Zetsuei]

Honestly I can't really think of a counter to this. It's really the player's fault for getting into that situation. I'm still not a fan of the mechanic, but it definitely makes clots more dangerous (I don't know what the difference between cysts, slashers, and clots are).

Also, if this new mechanic is meant to make the game more difficult, then why are there flesh pound and scrake screams(well more recognizable/louder screams) on waves they spawn? That would make the game easier wouldn't it?

Like what some people are saying, I guess we'll have to wait and see how everything plays out. Maybe we'll be surprised at how good these mechanics are with the rest of the game.

Even if they scream or not it doesn't change the fact you know the're coming. If they screamed in KF1 it wouldn't change anything, you hear them grunt/groan and if you played enough you knew when they would spawn anyway. The only thing screaming does is serve as a reminder: The big boys have spawned and you need to be ready. Even if you know they're coming it doesn't mean you're in a situation you can handle them.

 

[nejcooo]

Hmm that's weird. On one hand it can be helpful, and on another hand siren can come out or maybe fp. Goodnight mother****er, you don't stand a chance, unless you can do quick 180 but this will take few milliseconds at least and lower your chance of survival.

I'm not sure how that will feel, and it's imposible to say until this happens to me and fp rapes me while im shooting poor cyst. I thought it's triggered by player (like many console games can do).

It's ok, but it's gonna be super annoying and make you die and rage a lot more. Maybe that's what they want . Maybe that's just hard and/or hoe ability from cyst.

I think author's rage is not understable, it seems like it's gonna make game harder, and common enemies like cysts, really scary.

Maybe it's not bad, maybe it's just another way to make the game harder on hoe (maybe even hard diff)

 

[DirtySpartan]

I'm not raging in any way. I just think this feature doesn't really fit into KF. I don't think it will break the game if it stays in or make it bad or something like that. I just think that taking control away from the player is bad.

It removes difficulty if the thing that grabbed you is the only zed around. It doesn't do anything if there's more than one zed because once your camera turns around chances are you'll have to turn around back to the main horde anyway.

It just seems like a pointless and annoying feature, especially on PC.

 

[nejcooo]

It makes game more difficult. You try to kill siren or fp and get grabbed by cyst. Goodnight, you have died sir .). I think it won't make game easier, but harder like Yoshiro says.

I believe him, he plays the game every week, maybe even every day.

 

[Yoshiro]

It could turn out most players think it is pants. And that is fine. I am only commenting on my personal experience with the system so far, not my opinion of it.

 

[Savage Rodent]

Even if they scream or not it doesn't change the fact you know the're coming. If they screamed in KF1 it wouldn't change anything, you hear them grunt/groan and if you played enough you knew when they would spawn anyway. The only thing screaming does is serve as a reminder: The big boys have spawned and you need to be ready. Even if you know they're coming it doesn't mean you're in a situation you can handle them.

Small grunts and groans, sure you'll know they're coming, but you would be scrambling to get ready for their approach.

A notification at the start of the wave, well that depends on if they have a 100% chance of appearing on certain waves or not. It's about surprise and preparation.

If they don't have a 100% chance of appearing and there isn't a notification, then hearing those grunts and groans make it more surprising and spine tingling.

Give that notification at the beginning of the wave no matter what the percentage chance of them appearing is and it isn't surprising at all. You have time to prepare and you know their appearance isn't going to be immediate.

 

[PlatinumRooster]

Small grunts and groans, sure you'll know they're coming, but you would be scrambling to get ready for their approach.

A notification at the start of the wave, well that depends on if they have a 100% chance of appearing on certain waves or not. It's about surprise and preparation.

If they don't have a 100% chance of appearing and there isn't a notification, then hearing those grunts and groans make it more surprising and spine tingling.

Give that notification at the beginning of the wave no matter what the percentage chance of them appearing is and it isn't surprising at all. You have time to prepare and you know their appearance isn't going to be immediate.

The notice wasn't AT the start of the wave. It happens when one spawns...

 

[C_Gibby]

I have low hopes, I think it takes too much control away from the player, and their decision-making.

In KF1 when you get grabbed and immobilised, you could make decisions. You could continue shooting and try to get that one headshot off at a Scrake as you're getting eaten to death before switching to knife/pistol, or try to throw/fire a grenade in a particular direction just as you're about to die, or even turning to throw your weapon/money to an under-armed player as a parting gift.

The auto-turn seems to take that decision-making away. I think if the Cyst's grab is to be more effective (especially on higher difficulties) the grab itself should simply make the player's actions harder as opposed to diverting them totally.
Aside from immobilizing the player it could distort his vision a little, and introduce weapon sway, each new effect being added on (or intensified) for each difficulty level.

Games are about choices, so in my opinion the player's actions should be increasingly harder to perform instead of being bottlenecked. Removing the player's control does make the game harder, but in a very artificial, intrusive way.

If part of the reason for auto-turn is to help less experienced players realise why they're immobilised and losing health, it should be disable-able(?) or be replaced with some kind of visual indicator.

 

[kliziflip15]

It does really seem like a very disruptive feature (disruptive to the experience, not the actual playing) and it feels very much the feature introduced for console players to ease the game for them...the fact that we can shoive players means that it helps console players to turn around so they can shove the zombie (the one they may not even have noticed or known its exact position, since it could be behind you or on either of your sides)

so indeed it feels like an unneccesarry noobcrutch for the most unaware players and console players while at the same time just a HUGE nuissance to any decent player who will be annoyed but proceed to instantly shove back player and turn around (wont even lose a moment)...

honestly the KF1 grab does make it more difficult and this (as stated) is just a noobcrutch...the problem KF1 had however was that you could spam jump button to get out of clots grip...that was bad and made the grab pointless and ineffective (and also bererkers ability to not get grabbed useless)

In my opinion it should stay as in KF1 but without letting you evade by jumping (jumping should be disabled when you are grabbed).

Also it could shake your screen as some people mentioned it as both a warning and an increase in difficulty.

I believe that is also the issue OP had with it...the fact that its a crutch for bad players and just a big annoyance to anyone decent

 

[Savage Rodent]

The notice wasn't AT the start of the wave. It happens when one spawns...

Ah yeah, my mistake. Perhaps make the notification sound at close proximity. I believe that's what it was in KF. Can't remember now.

Either way, making the notifications more noticeable (which in turn makes the game easier) sort of counters this new auto-turn mechanic (which is suppose to make the game harder?).

 

[UltraJake]

It could turn out most players think it is pants. And that is fine. I am only commenting on my personal experience with the system so far, not my opinion of it.

Fair enough. We've yet to touch the game, so I guess keep this thread in mind once the public EA kicks into gear.

Like PlatinumRooster said, assuming the EA doesn't change my mind, I think a L4D2 Jockey kind of interaction might work better. If you don't know, the Jockey hops on the player's shoulders like a monkey (or something) and jerks them in different directions. Maybe the Clots wouldn't move the player around, but it could mess with their camera in a similar way. You can resist the forced movement of the camera if you need to try taking care of other incoming enemies first, but it'll be more difficult to hit your targets consistently.

But again, I don't know everything that has been done to differentiate the clots variants. Or maybe TWI is hoping to avoid borrowing ideas from L4D2. Because for some reason KF1 is already compared to L4D2.

 

[UserSD]

Fair enough. We've yet to touch the game, so I guess keep this thread in mind once the public EA kicks into gear.

Like PlatinumRooster said, assuming the EA doesn't change my mind, I think a L4D2 Jockey kind of interaction might work better. If you don't know, the Jockey hops on the player's shoulders like a monkey (or something) and jerks them in different directions. Maybe the Clots wouldn't move the player around, but it could mess with their camera in a similar way. You can resist the forced movement of the camera if you need to try taking care of other incoming enemies first, but it'll be more difficult to hit your targets consistently.

But again, I don't know everything that has been done to differentiate the clots variants. Or maybe TWI is hoping to avoid borrowing ideas from L4D2. Because for some reason KF1 is already compared to L4D2.

I think avoiding borrowing too much is the right way to go. Anything that helps the game keep fresh. Adding too many recycled mechanics from other games often becomes too repetitive.

Even if I dislike the clot grab after playing, I don't think it'll be a gamebreaker. I however do think there are could possibly better ways to attain the end goal.

However, I do agree on making clots and variants more dangerous than their KF1 counterparts. Especially in higher difficulties.

 

[vealck]

Definitely there should be no auto-rotate.

For the biggie announcement sound, I think it can be present on lower difficulties, but not on HoE.

 

[PlatinumRooster]

Ah yeah, my mistake. Perhaps make the notification sound at close proximity. I believe that's what it was in KF. Can't remember now.

Either way, making the notifications more noticeable (which in turn makes the game easier) sort of counters this new auto-turn mechanic (which is suppose to make the game harder?).

There wasn't a notification in KF. It was just the ability to hear it through the walls.

In my opinion,

I like the roar. It's aesthetically pleasing to the situation at hand. It bulids up the FP's presence.

Not EVERY feature implemented is meant for balancing and skill-management. Some of them are just outright cool. And I think the roar is one of the best features in the game.

 

[kliziflip15]

He could just roar before he rages....

 

[Seb@s]

He could just roar before he rages....

it's just like in KF1 & it's enough for me.
this spawn roar is like it's written in big & in the middle of my screen : FP IS APPROACHING ! , which is killing a bit the surprise.