Question for the weapon experts about the recoil of some weapons

[luciferintears]

They might want to tweak it so that the weapon is off-center when you first bring it up, but any situation where you'd need to jam the rifle into your shoulder and fire immediately after a hard sprint is not going to win any marksmanship awards in real life. You're trying to get a shot off as fast as possible, which is pretty fast if you only do a rough approximation with your aiming.

So yeah, not sway, but an off-center ADS when you first bring it up (as opposed to snapping to center) might do a lot to prevent snap shots at ranges farther than 75m.

Yes i agree.

I can rapidly fire off shots with my m48 but my accuracy diminishes severely; now in a situation where i want volume of fire over accuracy, it would be worthwhile, however in the game it presents no trade off.

Off centering the ads would be a nice solution, as when you bring up the rifle, the front and rear sights are not automatically aligned; it takes a second to align them especially in low light conditions (becomes nearly impossible at night).

that way in close range you can still react quickly (as in real life i can hipfire my rifle and actually hit stuff to around 50m) but further out, you need to aim harder or get into a proper firing position.

 

[gimpy117]

The two rifles kick very little to be honest, but maybe that's just me being a larger guy at 6'4 247lbs.

I'm 6'1.5" and 180 and find that I can hit a man sized target supported with an M-44 carbine (more recoil and less accuracy than the 91/30...but boy does it turn head at the range) pretty consistently. My k-98 is different, but I need to dial in those sights. Pretty sure they are off. But I will say, soviet military rounds (closer to German military) are much hotter than sporter rounds.

but yes, quick shots are difficult, even with my shotguns when i self pull a clay

 

[RojaNNation]

True, but your whole torso moves due to the force of the recoil. While the weight does help some, you have to remember that the MG-42 fired 1200 full-sized rifle rounds a minute (20 per second). Anything more than a quick burst from a gun with that rate of fire and caliber is going to be tough to control without having it mounted on something sturdy.

Then make it portrayed that way, I mainly use the LMG's and I can't stand that it shoots to the air after five shots, it's ridiculous. I would have no problem with the screen shaking or other types of simulations to how actually firing an LMG would be like.

 

[The_Cook]

Bolts fire the same round as the semi's so the same recoil would be produced by the bullet. The muzzle break and weight can influence it, but it is not that weird to have it the same. So yes indeed, the semi is a bolt without bolting, that's exactly why it was designed and produced.

Also the SMG is a CoD gun, also in real life. The bad thing about cod and such, is that all the other guns also act as smg's in the game. The smg was never the problem of those games.



Just to explain why it isn't all CoD that lurks in RO2. RO1 was awesome, even with the extreme recoil of the smg's, I also like that in a certain way. But that it's very hard is not necessarily realistic.

Edit: Just talking about recoil here. I think the sway and such can be a tat higher in RO2.

speaking out of your ***. bolt vs. semi-auto recoil far different even when using the same round. Bolt usually has more recoil than semi-auto. Semi-auto expends energy not only through the action of the sliding bolt and spring, but also sometimes through a gas operation port which cycles the rifle if it is fully auto. mosin has the kick of a 12gauge, especially with it's solidly mounted barrel and bolt which is attached to a solid wood stock and a METAL buttplate. SVT about same construction, but because of all it's moving parts it's recoil is decidedly softer on the shoulder.

 

[The_Cook]

Speaking of kicking like a mule lol watch this video its funny as hell.It also demonstrates user skill all these dudes get owned by this gun but notice the guy at the end.The only one in a proper stance and bracing for recoil handles it well.

I dare you not to laugh
Most powerful gun in the world - YouTube

omg it's like watching a bunch of COD noobs fire a real 30-06. First off improper seating of the buttplate into the shoulder. I'm surprised no one dislocated anything or broke something. horrible stance for a high powered rifle none except for last guy leaned the majority of their weight on the leading foot. That video was like watching a horror show.

 

[Actin]

Semi-Autos kick less (perceived recoil) than bolts, with the same cartridge.

You're failing to take into account the weapons' methods of operation. Having fired both the mosin and svt for instance, the svt's recoil is noticeably less sharp and more manageable.

speaking out of your ***. bolt vs. semi-auto recoil far different even when using the same round. Bolt usually has more recoil than semi-auto. Semi-auto expends energy not only through the action of the sliding bolt and spring, but also sometimes through a gas operation port which cycles the rifle if it is fully auto. mosin has the kick of a 12gauge, especially with it's solidly mounted barrel and bolt which is attached to a solid wood stock and a METAL buttplate. SVT about same construction, but because of all it's moving parts it's recoil is decidedly softer on the shoulder.

To all of you. Of course they differ somewhat. I mentioned two reasons for it and there are a lot more factors. It was a reaction to a guy who thinks it's total bull**** that a semi has the same recoil as a bolt in general (probably because all other games give semis suddenly smg recoil)
So yeah it's not exactly the same, it can even be a larger recoil (e.g. when the weight is a lot lower)
In general speaking it's the same bullet and the recoil will be very much alike between bolts and semis.

You are too much looking at the specific SVT - Mosin 91/30 situation, when that's not what I am talking about

 

[The_Cook]

I think the main diff between recoil in the semis and bolts is that the bolt gives you one large push. Semis give you the push, and then another shove when the bolt slams all the way back, and then a bit of a twitch when it finishes riding forward again.

An yes I would say bolt rifles, especially the k98 firing military load rounds, need a recoil boost. Lots of people have owned or shot a k98k at one point, not mainy using max loaded 200 or 220 grain tips. Lets just say that is a totaly different ballpark to a medium load 170 grain tip( current factory ammo). I bought a box of 200 grain wolf 8mm mauser ammo, probably some of the hardest kicking recoil ive felt yet. it's also the only carbine rifle I have..

ehehehe 200grn. pushing 2300fps definitively a whole different beast. My normal loads for my 30-06 was 140grn pushing about 1800fps shoot it all day and wonder where all the pop was. Found Barnes X and loaded the solid brass 200grn. and worked my way up to max and pushed about 2300fps. Kicked a bit worse than a 12gauge. Manageable, but you knew you went shooting when you woke up the next morning

 

[The_Cook]

To all of you. Of course they differ somewhat. I mentioned two reasons for it and there are a lot more factors. It was a reaction to a guy who thinks it's total bull**** that a semi has the same recoil as a bolt in general (probably because all other games give semis suddenly smg recoil)
So yeah it's not exactly the same, it can even be a larger recoil (e.g. when the weight is a lot lower)
In general speaking it's the same bullet and the recoil will be very much alike between bolts and semis.

You are too much looking at the specific SVT - Mosin 91/30 situation, when that's not what I am talking about

30-06...
Garand M1
Springfield Rifle
BAR
Enfield 1917

All used the same round, all if using the same factory ammo are different beasts unto themselves. Springfield kick's less than a 12gauge, garand kicks about a 12gauge. BAR will turn your shoulder into paste, enfield is somewhere between garand and BAR.

This is from personal experience running milspec 30-06 from winchester though all of em at one point in time.

Go an purchase a firearm, don't talk about anything unless you're pulling from known quantifiable facts, or from personal experience. What you speak is jibberish pull out of your ***.

.22lr 10/22 vs bolt. bolt gives you an almost perceived punch, while 10/22 semi auto is more of a push.

 

[Greenh0rn]

this is the best video what i found, nobody can cry abaut it:same person, same conditions

from 3min

Стрелковое оружие Второй Мировой войны - 6 - YouTube

PPSH is inaccurater than the Mp40 just look at the barrel of the two weapon how they move

btw i dont understand a word of it

 

[Actin]

30-06...
Garand M1
Springfield Rifle
BAR
Enfield 1917

All used the same round, all if using the same factory ammo are different beasts unto themselves. Springfield kick's less than a 12gauge, garand kicks about a 12gauge. BAR will turn your shoulder into paste, enfield is somewhere between garand and BAR.

This is from personal experience running milspec 30-06 from winchester though all of em at one point in time.

Go an purchase a firearm, don't talk about anything unless you're pulling from known quantifiable facts, or from personal experience. What you speak is jibberish pull out of your ***.

I honestly didn't know the differences would be that great, sorry for that.
I never shot a bolt-action myself only some semi-autos. Although my conclusion was off in my last post, I just wanted to say that you're (plural) way too serious on picking off a simplification and make a discussion out of it.

But you are a bit missing the point. I did make a generalization of bolts and semis. I was indeed wrong that the recoil will always be somewhat the same. But the point of my first post was in response to someone who cannot believe that semis have the same recoil as bolts. Since they can (and have less or more, depending on the gun), that's why I made my first post.

I made a simplification to say that semis can have the same recoil as both. not that they are necessarily the same. I never wanted to discuss in how far the recoil can be differrent from which semis compared to it's respective bolts (just say to that guy that they can be the same). Since I never shot a bolt (only semis) I knew I cannot accurately say how much they are alike (and I didn't)



But you're actually contradicting yourself a bit with your previous post, I think. You say the semi's would be less recoil and then you name examples which actually kick more?
Not defending my point, but it just sounds weird.

 

[Rrralphster]

this is the best video what i found, nobody can cry abaut it:same person, same conditions

from 3min

Стрелковое оружие Второй Мировой войны - 6 - YouTube

PPSH is inaccurater than the Mp40 just look at the barrel of the two weapon how they move

btw i dont understand a word of it

Definately needs subtitles.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Nader mate I know from your previous posts that you have fired pistols and rifles. But have you ever fired a large MG?

IMO considering how a semi rifle acts when you attach a bipod at the end and shoot it like a MG from prone, a weapon that weights 2 to 4 times more would likely nullify a lot of that recoil.

( oh and btw an anti tank rifle barely if at all moves somone who is prone, I have yet to see people sliding backwards due to firing a MG from prone)

( Not to mention many of the MG types in game fire from an open bolt, so that slamming forward helps to reduce recoil )

edit for clarification I have not fired large MG's or any MG's, Americans keep sending their anti gun enthusiasts to Canada....

 

[Rumo]

( oh and btw an anti tank rifle barely if at all moves somone who is prone, I have yet to see people sliding backwards due to firing a MG from prone)

The PTRS seems to have quite a push
Don

 

[ComeAndSee]

I'm a proud owner of M91 Mosin Nagant (pre-war made by Tula in 32) and the recoil is paper soft ingame compared to IRL. The recoil of the M91 is about on par to a 12 gauges recoil and the bolt is clunkier to use than the Kar 98 imho. It's front heavy when holding and it's no where as balanced to hold in your hands compared to the M44. The M44 just feels perfect in my hands.

It's definitely a weapon that can bruise up your shoulder good after repeated usage. It's very accurate though, hits steel targets 100-200 meters with amateur shooting skills.

 

[Nebelkind]

You are too much looking at the specific SVT - Mosin 91/30 situation, when that's not what I am talking about

That's true, that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about changing something you have no personal experience with.

 

[Josef Nader]

Nader mate I know from your previous posts that you have fired pistols and rifles. But have you ever fired a large MG?

IMO considering how a semi rifle acts when you attach a bipod at the end and shoot it like a MG from prone, a weapon that weights 2 to 4 times more would likely nullify a lot of that recoil.

( oh and btw an anti tank rifle barely if at all moves somone who is prone, I have yet to see people sliding backwards due to firing a MG from prone)

( Not to mention many of the MG types in game fire from an open bolt, so that slamming forward helps to reduce recoil )

edit for clarification I have not fired large MG's or any MG's, Americans keep sending their anti gun enthusiasts to Canada....

Personally, no. I watched my ex's dad fire several belts from a Browning M1919 from a tripod, and a full box magazine through a G3, but I never got my hands on the large automatics.

Now, he was an older gentleman, in his 60s, but he had a lot of trouble keeping the G3 on target for bursts longer than a second or two. Admittedly, he was firing from standing, so it's different than firing from a bipod. He fired the M1919 from a heavy tripod, so again, not the same situation.

So yeah, I'm basically just guessing here based on my experience with lesser firearms and from what I saw when he was shooting.

Anywho, I main MG'er myself, so you won't find me complaining if they drop the recoil. I guess it's just the way I play machine gunner that makes the recoil more or less unimportant (short, quick bursts to keep them from honing in on my location). Of course, that's just me...

And yes, bless ye' Second Amendment.

 

[Nebelkind]

I was amazed at how little recoil an MG34 has. It's like a long, mild shove. Considering that it weighs more than 3x what a K98 does, yet fires the same round, and has a gas system, it shouldn't be surprising, but it is if you're not familiar with MGs. It's quite controllable from the hip too, if wildly inaccurate.

Hipshooting accuracy goes like this: X-Axis=Easy. Y-Axis=Hard. You have less trouble lining up on the target horizontally, and more trouble not shooting the dirt 10' in front of him.

 

[Actin]

That's true, that's not what you're talking about. You're talking about changing something you have no personal experience with.

Where did I say I wanted to change something

 

[Rrralphster]

Nader mate I know from your previous posts that you have fired pistols and rifles. But have you ever fired a large MG?

IMO considering how a semi rifle acts when you attach a bipod at the end and shoot it like a MG from prone, a weapon that weights 2 to 4 times more would likely nullify a lot of that recoil.

( oh and btw an anti tank rifle barely if at all moves somone who is prone, I have yet to see people sliding backwards due to firing a MG from prone)

( Not to mention many of the MG types in game fire from an open bolt, so that slamming forward helps to reduce recoil )

edit for clarification I have not fired large MG's or any MG's, Americans keep sending their anti gun enthusiasts to Canada....

Open or closed bolt, you want just enough power to recycle a round.
No more (less power behind the bullet) no less (not enough power to recycle).
B.t.w. A bolt action firing the same round as a semi or full will allways have more recoill.
Semi-auto and Full-auto weapons use a part of the same force that propells the bullet to recycle.
In a Bolt-action the full force of the expanding gasses moves in one direction, that of the bullet.

I fired both a FN FAL (L1A1 SLR for Brits) and a FN MAG (M240 for Americans) several times a year. I've been an Airforce guard/Stinger Operator in the Dutch Airforce for 4 years and we handle the big guns in the Airforce. The rest of the personel used UZI's mainly.
Anyway, the gas operation of the FN FAL was very sensitive. We fired live rounds 2x a year and 2x year with blanks (wargames). It was easy to forget to switch settings (we had weapons registered to specific people). I screwed up 2x in 4 years when going to the live fire range and had too much gas on the piston. No problem at 100m, but I wasn't hitting anything at 200m. That finicky... That was just one notch on the adjustment ring.
It needs to be EXACTLY ballanced.
You don't notice much of the movement of the bolt (compared to the kick of the bullet leaving the barrel).

 

[Marxman]

I think the main diff between recoil in the semis and bolts is that the bolt gives you one large push. Semis give you the push, and then another shove when the bolt slams all the way back, and then a bit of a twitch when it finishes riding forward again.

An yes I would say bolt rifles, especially the k98 firing military load rounds, need a recoil boost. Lots of people have owned or shot a k98k at one point, not mainy using max loaded 200 or 220 grain tips. Lets just say that is a totaly different ballpark to a medium load 170 grain tip( current factory ammo). I bought a box of 200 grain wolf 8mm mauser ammo, probably some of the hardest kicking recoil ive felt yet. it's also the only carbine rifle I have..

Bolt action rifles' recoil is pretty easy to manage. having fired a K98 and owning a Mosin, I'd say the recoil is a little bit less than realisitc. I would advocate having more recoil when standing up, but crouched or prone or resting it, the recoil is negligible IRL.

About MGs, they shouldn't have so much upwards recoil. They're heavy guns, and on top of that the drum adds a lot of weight. If they could make it so that the MG34/DP started having more recoil as the drum got less and less full I'd be ecstatic. Ive never personally fired an AR, but I was talking to one of my buddies who was a SAW gunner in Fallujah, and while WW2 Mgs and SAWs are not even in the same league, he said that the weight of his MG made it have little to no recoil when deployed and shooting in 5-9 round bursts. He said that he could even shoot small bursts accurately from the shoulder without too much trouble. He said it was more or less the same with the M240, but without shoulder firing.