Level Design Question about proper use of water volumes?
- Thread starter jeffduquette
- Start date
Your problem is that Players can't swim in RO? Make the river shallow or put rocks in it so there is a passage. Never expierenced that players can drown at the border between water volume and terrain layer :/
Make the fluid surface actor and the water volume bigger than your river.
Make the fluid surface actor and the water volume bigger than your river.
Upvote
0
also havent had this issue.
in my map 9gefangene i have a water volume under a fluid surface as a river bed, and i have portions that are swimmable (ie they are just deep) and shallow sections that are in the water volume so unless the player goes prone they can still run thru.
Its just a wild guess, but check a few things
no holes in terrain nor in water volume?
i read in wiki somewhere about how terrain texture clamps (?) the fluid/water volume. may be worth checking up on that. cos thats what seem to be descibed if player can fall thru terrain while in Watervolume
maybe try order> to last> on the water volume
Cheers Sined
in my map 9gefangene i have a water volume under a fluid surface as a river bed, and i have portions that are swimmable (ie they are just deep) and shallow sections that are in the water volume so unless the player goes prone they can still run thru.
Its just a wild guess, but check a few things
no holes in terrain nor in water volume?
i read in wiki somewhere about how terrain texture clamps (?) the fluid/water volume. may be worth checking up on that. cos thats what seem to be descibed if player can fall thru terrain while in Watervolume
maybe try order> to last> on the water volume
Cheers Sined
Upvote
0
Ok -- thanks for the replies. There are no holes in the terrain layer -- at least none any where near the water volumes. Also no holes in the water volumes -- these are just big boxes. hmmm...I'll fiddle about with it some more and see if I can fix the problem.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
oh wait on does your river have steep sides?....
the reason i ask is that at a certain angle on the terrain layer if it is like 60 degrees from neighbouring floor poly then sometimes if you go prone you can LooK through the walls, i wonder if somehow you can exit near a (almost) vertical terrain wall and slip through the terrain layer that way?..
Also crazy left field thought.. your terrain texture doesnt have alpha layer holes in it does it?... maybe retexture a test area and add water volume and see if that works?
anyway just the random thoughts of a mad mapper
the reason i ask is that at a certain angle on the terrain layer if it is like 60 degrees from neighbouring floor poly then sometimes if you go prone you can LooK through the walls, i wonder if somehow you can exit near a (almost) vertical terrain wall and slip through the terrain layer that way?..
Also crazy left field thought.. your terrain texture doesnt have alpha layer holes in it does it?... maybe retexture a test area and add water volume and see if that works?
anyway just the random thoughts of a mad mapper
Upvote
0
oh wait on does your river have steep sides?....
the reason i ask is that at a certain angle on the terrain layer if it is like 60 degrees from neighbouring floor poly then sometimes if you go prone you can LooK through the walls, i wonder if somehow you can exit near a (almost) vertical terrain wall and slip through the terrain layer that way?..
Also crazy left field thought.. your terrain texture doesnt have alpha layer holes in it does it?... maybe retexture a test area and add water volume and see if that works?
anyway just the random thoughts of a mad mapper
Yes, the river has a very abrupt change in slope between the bottom of the river and the river banks. It could be 60-degree in areas.
I don't recall if the problem is specifically related to being prone. Possibly it is. I have tested this and have been able to recreate the problem other players have experianced. I'll check to see if I was prone when it happened. But yes you can see through the terrain layer at the interface or intersection between the water volume and the terrain\elevation map. You can also pass through (swim through) the terrain layer and get trapped underneath it -- when this happen you can see through the one-sided terrain layer while swimming about underneath it. I will try a gentler slope transition test to see if that does the trick. Thanks for the brain stormming.
No alpha layer holes in the map.
Upvote
0
Hi Sined...just a quick follow-up. I did a bit more testing and the problem does seem to be associated with going prone. EIther going prone before entering the water volume, or going prone while in the water volume results in the potential for getting trapped beneath the terrain layer when trying to exit the water volume.
Upvote
0
having similar problems myself with water volumes.
If you go prone inside a water volume you cannot then go from a prone position to crouched or stand until you have reached the sides of the Volume.
It is a real pain and is very unrealistic, anyone else had this issue and is there a way to fix it
If you go prone inside a water volume you cannot then go from a prone position to crouched or stand until you have reached the sides of the Volume.
It is a real pain and is very unrealistic, anyone else had this issue and is there a way to fix it
Upvote
0
yes going prone is a (feeble) attempt to swim which you can do (kinda) and you need to surface b4 u can exit water. so alas you need a gentle edge to the water volume .
Except if you place a brick/stone etc static mesh along the edge :-0 then your prone player hits the rock/stone and cant see out the terrain and you get to keep the steep sides,and player cant exit .
but u need to edge the steep spots.
i was so annoyed when i discovered the terrain prone thing, cos players exploit this by shooting thru terrain.. now i know why ppl lie down and shoot in stupid spots on maps (is this justification for tk'
Except
if you place a brick/stone etc static mesh along the edge :-0 then your prone player hits the rock/stone and cant see out the terrain and you get to keep the steep sides,and player cant exit .but u need to edge the steep spots.
i was so annoyed when i discovered the terrain prone thing, cos players exploit this by shooting thru terrain.. now i know why ppl lie down and shoot in stupid spots on maps (is this justification for tk'
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Well -- I thought I was making progress. That is until I read your last. So you were refering to the slope on the water volume. I guess I thought you meant the slope of the terrain layer.
The water volumes only loosely conform to the river bed. They extend beyond the banks -- probably in some cases over 1000 or 2000-UUs. I wanted to minimize the use of water volumes so made them rather large to make them easier to conform to the various meanders in the river.
Regarding the getting beneath the terrain and using it to advantage -- I had not thought of that. But yes, I can see gamers doing this. I guess this explains why I see some RO maps in which the map author uses a static mesh terrain map just for the river bed. Other maps simply kill anyone that gets into the water. I suppose I could place a mine volume along the edges of the river -- but below the main terrain layer. That way if you get below the terrain layer you get blown up That is until I can think of a more elegant solution. D@mnation!
The water volumes only loosely conform to the river bed. They extend beyond the banks -- probably in some cases over 1000 or 2000-UUs. I wanted to minimize the use of water volumes so made them rather large to make them easier to conform to the various meanders in the river.
Regarding the getting beneath the terrain and using it to advantage -- I had not thought of that. But yes, I can see gamers doing this. I guess this explains why I see some RO maps in which the map author uses a static mesh terrain map just for the river bed. Other maps simply kill anyone that gets into the water. I suppose I could place a mine volume along the edges of the river -- but below the main terrain layer. That way if you get below the terrain layer you get blown up
That is until I can think of a more elegant solution. D@mnation!
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The other thing I hadnt though of is the river banks are high and steep in some areas or the map. I used the height in these areas to place anti-portal benath the terrain layer. So the antiportal bisect the water volumes in some areas -- i.e. the water vloumes extend well beyond the actual river banks as defined by the main terrain layer. What happens if a player swims the river -- prone -- gets beneath the terrain map and swims into an antiportal.
Upvote
0
Ok -- last random thought for the morning. Running with something Sined said above, is it possible to "turn-out" the lights beneath the main terrain layer? When beneath the main terrain layer you can see through it and shoot through it while bobbing around in the water volume. It is well lit. The sunlight actors for the level also "shine" through the main terrain layer, or perhaps they are simply lighting everything within the main subtracted volume for the whole level. Seems like there should be a simple way to turn off the lights beneath the main terrain layer such that if a player gets under it they can't take advanatge of shooting people in the feet.
Could you stretch a simple portal sheet all the way across the main subtratced volume -- edge to edge and beneath the main terrain layer -- for the level or will the sunlight actors still light the bottom half of the main subtracted volume for the level?
Could you stretch a simple portal sheet all the way across the main subtratced volume -- edge to edge and beneath the main terrain layer -- for the level or will the sunlight actors still light the bottom half of the main subtracted volume for the level?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
You shouldn't even be thinking about such tinkering and instead improve your terrain so no one ever falls through.
If anything I wouldn't make the area dark but I would make the area damaging to players so if someone glitches through your terrain he gets killed and can respawn somewhere in the map again.
If you need to make it so players can't see turning off the lights won't do as they can still see what's going on where the lights are still on (ie. the playable area!). You could place a huge volume under the terrain which a) does damage to players and b) has black distance fog with a very low view-distance. Where it cuts off the fog you would still be able to see the skybox, which would look extremely weird but at least players can't see anything and if it looks weird it doesn't matter too much as it's a glitch anyway.
As I said, you should bother with such tinkering!
If you need steep slopes you are better of making StaticMeshes for them. Not only because this solves your problem of players getting too close to the edges of the slopes as the StaticMeshes are blocking them, but also because you can make it look a lot more realistic that way.
If anything I wouldn't make the area dark but I would make the area damaging to players so if someone glitches through your terrain he gets killed and can respawn somewhere in the map again.
If you need to make it so players can't see turning off the lights won't do as they can still see what's going on where the lights are still on (ie. the playable area!). You could place a huge volume under the terrain which a) does damage to players and b) has black distance fog with a very low view-distance. Where it cuts off the fog you would still be able to see the skybox, which would look extremely weird but at least players can't see anything and if it looks weird it doesn't matter too much as it's a glitch anyway.
As I said, you should bother with such tinkering!
If you need steep slopes you are better of making StaticMeshes for them. Not only because this solves your problem of players getting too close to the edges of the slopes as the StaticMeshes are blocking them, but also because you can make it look a lot more realistic that way.
Upvote
0
You are right. But the more I fiddle with water volumes the more I realize why some map\level designers take the approach of making entry into water insta-death.
I suppose in a sense the insta-death makes a great deal of sense. I mean we are talking about a soldier with a full combat load being able to swim across a major water body. I could in theory -- at least in the RO environment -- swim a river with a strong current while carrying a rifle, two 10-lbs satchel charges, 3-panzerfausts, a pistol, ammunition for my pistol and rifle, grenades, binoculars -- while wearing combat boots and fatigues. And if that is not enough of a stretch, the soldier -- while swimining with a full combat load -- can still employ his rifle or tommy gun or whater ever. I am a pretty good swimmer having grown up in Southern California and Hawaii, but even in my youth I think I would have shed everything except my boxer shorts (to include my boots) if I was thinking about swiming across a river with a 5 or 6-knot current. Yet the first thing I think of when playing a level in which entering the water means instant death is why isn't my virtual self being allowed to swim across this frickin' river. I suppose I am just another victim of the ying & yang of simulation vs. gaming. Poor me.
I am just trying to justify in my mind my unwillingness to deal with creating static meshes to stretch across a very long meandering river bed on a map that is slightly bigger than Debrecen.
I suppose in a sense the insta-death makes a great deal of sense. I mean we are talking about a soldier with a full combat load being able to swim across a major water body. I could in theory -- at least in the RO environment -- swim a river with a strong current while carrying a rifle, two 10-lbs satchel charges, 3-panzerfausts, a pistol, ammunition for my pistol and rifle, grenades, binoculars -- while wearing combat boots and fatigues. And if that is not enough of a stretch, the soldier -- while swimining with a full combat load -- can still employ his rifle or tommy gun or whater ever. I am a pretty good swimmer having grown up in Southern California and Hawaii, but even in my youth I think I would have shed everything except my boxer shorts (to include my boots) if I was thinking about swiming across a river with a 5 or 6-knot current. Yet the first thing I think of when playing a level in which entering the water means instant death is why isn't my virtual self being allowed to swim across this frickin' river. I suppose I am just another victim of the ying & yang of simulation vs. gaming. Poor me.
I am just trying to justify in my mind my unwillingness to deal with creating static meshes to stretch across a very long meandering river bed on a map that is slightly bigger than Debrecen.
You shouldn't even be thinking about such tinkering and instead improve your terrain so no one ever falls through.
If anything I wouldn't make the area dark but I would make the area damaging to players so if someone glitches through your terrain he gets killed and can respawn somewhere in the map again.
If you need to make it so players can't see turning off the lights won't do as they can still see what's going on where the lights are still on (ie. the playable area!). You could place a huge volume under the terrain which a) does damage to players and b) has black distance fog with a very low view-distance. Where it cuts off the fog you would still be able to see the skybox, which would look extremely weird but at least players can't see anything and if it looks weird it doesn't matter too much as it's a glitch anyway.
As I said, you should bother with such tinkering!
If you need steep slopes you are better of making StaticMeshes for them. Not only because this solves your problem of players getting too close to the edges of the slopes as the StaticMeshes are blocking them, but also because you can make it look a lot more realistic that way.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
ok update
i was talking about the angle of terrain and every map with steep angles runs this risk.
my water volume in RO-Gef is huge also to "bathtub"a slightly bent river road.
the water volume is square sided.
Also my "fix"to terrain shooters"was adding Black textured volumes underground
and as "slab"style plates to stop people shooting in the vertical directions under players
this with antiportals (btw none of my AP's intersect water as it happens) optimizes my map a little and adds a barrier as above.
But great idea Murphy
i might try that for Gef_beta4
sure i pay a price computation wise but no peeking possible
Also the terrain in Gef doesnt allow ppl to fall thru, but any steep angle can be seen through while prone
RO-Gef based on kaukasus has HEAPS of 60 degree angle stuff to make narrow tracks up down mountains i had to.
Cheers Sined
i was talking about the angle of terrain and every map with steep angles runs this risk.
my water volume in RO-Gef is huge also to "bathtub"a slightly bent river road.
the water volume is square sided.
Also my "fix"to terrain shooters"was adding Black textured volumes underground
and as "slab"style plates to stop people shooting in the vertical directions under players
this with antiportals (btw none of my AP's intersect water as it happens) optimizes my map a little and adds a barrier as above.
But great idea Murphy
i might try that for Gef_beta4
sure i pay a price computation wise but no peeking possible
Also the terrain in Gef doesnt allow ppl to fall thru, but any steep angle can be seen through while prone
RO-Gef based on kaukasus has HEAPS of 60 degree angle stuff to make narrow tracks up down mountains i had to.
Cheers Sined
Upvote
0