I'm completely failing to understand why there is a planned quality of life update for the very end of the game's life cycle when the fewest players ever will be playing. Does it not make way more sense to do the QOL update in Summer and then content updates in fall and winter? Or...is the Dec. 2023 update going to be the final one and they want to get KF2 in a polished, final state before KF3 (please)?
QOL Update in Dec. 2023 - why??
- Thread starter Mk137
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I hope TWI/Saber/Embracer never works on KF3 as it is likely going to be a game matching the quality of post-release KF2 content, hated universally by players, specifically EDARs, QPs, KFP/Abom/Matriarch bosses, rioters and the spawn rage mechanic. These same people who came up with this are going to be making game design decisions for KF3.
To make a good game there has to be a major change in people making it which isn't happening, thus, the next great game of this type is likely going to be developed by some other studio. Especially considering that they don't have around anymore a certain person who was in charge of some major game decisions.
The player base for KF2 is stagnant. The bad part is it doesn't grow, but the good one is it doesn't shrink either. It's very likely that by the end of 2023 we are going to still have the same 2.5-3K average monthly players.
They may have their internal schedule reasons to do it at that time, for example, this is going to be a relatively free period from obligations to release/maintain other major titles.
As for me (and I'm speaking for a couple of similar minded players here), it's good that it's by the end of the year when I really hope they finally stop updating it, because major changes have more chances to break the mods and the mods to this game is the only thing that keeps me engaged, I don't like any of the content TWI introduced post about 2018 and I wish it didn't exist as the game was more enjoyable for me back then.
To make a good game there has to be a major change in people making it which isn't happening, thus, the next great game of this type is likely going to be developed by some other studio. Especially considering that they don't have around anymore a certain person who was in charge of some major game decisions.
The player base for KF2 is stagnant. The bad part is it doesn't grow, but the good one is it doesn't shrink either. It's very likely that by the end of 2023 we are going to still have the same 2.5-3K average monthly players.
They may have their internal schedule reasons to do it at that time, for example, this is going to be a relatively free period from obligations to release/maintain other major titles.
As for me (and I'm speaking for a couple of similar minded players here), it's good that it's by the end of the year when I really hope they finally stop updating it, because major changes have more chances to break the mods and the mods to this game is the only thing that keeps me engaged, I don't like any of the content TWI introduced post about 2018 and I wish it didn't exist as the game was more enjoyable for me back then.
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Well, at least they're thinking about it ! That's much more than what we could hope for in the past few years ! Now what it will look like is up to anyone's guess... They mention "QoL additions" with each updates, yet they're usually 2-3 tweaked weapons and not much more. So I really hope that update will bring a slew of balance changes, and not just change up a couple of things, especially if it's the last one.
What you're saying makes sense, but as @o2xVc3UuXp0NyBihrUnu said : the player base itself hasn't grown in quite a while anyway. If something had to be done, it should have been much earlier. The players that are left will probably stay until the very end (and I know that personally: I'll always come back with each updates, to at least try out the new stuff). So I don't really mind if they take their time to release that patch, especially because it gives more hope to finally have something worthwhile.
Plus... I feel like a "last update" should always be meaningful and impactful. And I don't really see the same model we've had for years now (2-4 weapons, 1 map and 1 weekly) being a fitting parting gift. A big tweaking that makes the game feel fresh, and more balanced, would actually keep players going for far longer than a couple of weekends if done right.
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I agree with every word you said.
KF2 lost it's way a long time ago. The game was ruined by many questionable decisions, It's mostly maps that have been added to the game and especially cosmetic items. The Vault was the biggest mistake which totally destroyed atmosphere. The only thing I like is a few costumes - Horzine Mark 7 and Reaper Outfit.
The problem is that KF2's modding community is not big as KF1's. The most maps of KF2 is not good in terms of quality and design as it was in KF1, half of them I would remove from the game. Another problem with maps is edits. The last map "Crash" is good on its own, but adding Xmas stuff was also a mistake. The map just becomes non serious when you see a corpses in winter hats or corpses of elves lying around.
The quality of DLC weapons is just disgusting. KF2 is probably the only game, where I was willing to buy extra content, but I'm not willing to give money for weapons.
Developers completely forgot about lore of the game. What is KF2 even about? About a bio-catastrophe, about a failed experiment. But in reality you just shoot mutants in the company of some clowns squad in a completely fantastic locations like Elysium or Netherhold.
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More likely, i think they're doing the QoL update to slow the rate at which KF2 loses performance per year. They'll most likely keep updating the game until Saber Interactive staff themselves are incapable of playing the game.
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Eh... I agree with the broader message, but I feel like you're blaming the wrong stuff most of the time.
-Custom maps are indeed less interesting, but I feel it's because they have far fewer assets to work with. I keep noticing how most maps have the same "vibes" because they keep recycling the same furniture, same posters, same lightning... Every map or so feels like either a city at night, some military base or some spaceship. And while I guess some of them could be made by people who weren't very inspired, I also think it comes from a lack of stuff to work with. Sure, "limitations breed creativity" they say. But there's just so much that can be done with the same ol' assets really. I'm no modder myself though, so I don't know if KF1 was any different... Maybe it was easier to create stuff from scratch? In any case, it doesn't help that Tripwire/Saber aren't releasing any maps of their own anymore.
-"The vault destroyed the atmosphere" is something I didn't even understand tbh? I dislike the vault mostly because they keep giving me the same items over and over again. And it's just painfully unrewarding to complete daily objectives, prestige, craft your way through... only to find the same pyjama you've had five times already. They really should have thought of that system better (or the whole drop/craft system really)
-"Not willing to give money for weapons" ... Are you saying so because the DLC weapons suck or just in general? Because honestly, I don't really see what else they could offer behind a paywall. It's not optimal, but for a game that old... It's kinda understandable, at least if you're willing to keep the game alive (personally, I feel like they could have called it a day 2-3 years ago). I was fully on board saying that 10€ per weapon was a scam, but with the season passes, it's much more reasonable. Keep in mind that they're still offering free content with each update, and they had the smart idea of both letting you try the weapons first (assuming you use the console in solo), and allowing the paid users to share the fun.
-When did Killing Floor's lore really matter anyway? It was always paper-thin, with just a paper-thin story about clones escaping and causing havoc. The core of the game isn't very complicated : shoot everything in sight until the end of the wave, stock up at the trader, rinse and repeat with tougher waves (and better weapons) up until the boss. There's not a whole lot to build from that concept honestly.
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Ok, let's get started. I was not accurate in my statements.
Maps.
You got the point. I wrote about it many times: the main problem with maps is lack of assets and textures. In KF1 each map was unique, with their own atmosphere, mood and design. These were unforgettable maps, such as Hospital Horror or Wyre Forest for example.
What do we have in KF2? For example, maps - Burning Paris / Evacuation Point / Dystopia. These are 3 different maps, but I have a feeling that this is one big location, just from a "different angle". If these maps had new textures, a new skybox and scripted scenes, then everything would be a much better.
I hate "Elysium". This is the worst map that could be added to the game. The main location is not better than some trash maps like "Horzine Arena". How "original". There were good and original maps in the Steam workshop, which with some good edits could be added to the game and it would be nice to play on them. It's a two maps - "Quarantine Breach" and "Miasma".
Vault.
Oh, nice. Do you like players in pajamas? With $$ glasses and fly "Bob" hats? I don't, like many players.
The problem are not only in the Vault. The problem is in the cosmetic items themselves.
What do you think, which gear and cosmetics is best for game? This?
https://www.trueachievements.com/customimages/l/075106.jpg
Or this?
https://www.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/123/1239113/3119548-kf2.jpg
I prefer the second ones. Sure, there might be variations: armor variants, military outfits, gasmasks etc. What prevented to add more military equipment and gear to the game to make players look like this?
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KjpJc8y5_Bc/maxresdefault.jpg
Or this?
https://img.championat.com/c/1350x7...ki-poluchat-18-nagrad_1665685554410333850.jpg
It's a way better, than tasteless clowns.
DLC weapons.
Most of them are useless, yes. My main dissatisfaction is about their quality, especially animations. Giving money for such a hackwork is unacceptable,
and should not be encouraged. What kind of "support" are you talking about? With every update, people are getting more and more angry and dissatisfied. More and more HRG (i like some of them, but not all), poor quality PAID content, community maps (yes, most of KF1 maps is a community made. I wrote about this, community of KF1 is a way bigger), the size of the game is getting bigger, almost ~ 90GB. It's all about amount, not quality. Instead of 2-3 not interesting maps I would prefer to see one, but high-quality and memorable. Same i can say about the DLC. Instead of 2-3 DLCs add useful, cool looking, well made and new weapons that would expand the arsenal. Some kind of weapon from real life, AUG for SWAT for example. So that's good, isn't it?
And finally, about lore of the game. As I said, the original idea of the KF is eliminate the consequences of a monstrous biological catastrophe. Killing the bloodthirsty mutants on the bloody streets of a ruined city, with a lot of human losses, is more suitable for KF, than players in pink pajamas playing on the maps like "Elysium" or "Netherhold". Don't you think so? If I want that kind of gameplay I'll play Saints Row IV.
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Then we fully agree on that ! I played KF2 a bit more these last few weeks to complete the seasonal objectives and such, and I was taken aback by how difficult it was to pick a map... because there are so little that I actually like. Either they have a weird gimmick added to them (like The Descent or Airship), they have a layout that's not fun (Catacombs, Infernal Realm...) or simply I don't dig their style (Containment Station). At least maps tried different things at first, even when I'm not hugely fond of them. Farmhouse and Black Forest come to mind, and I don't get why they didn't keep the "Europe tour" idea.
But that's a problem that goes far beyond the Vault system, which in itself is straightforward but more than ok (earning stuff by playing the game? That's always a good incentive to keep playing!). I totally agree that they overdid the customization options : there are WAY TOO MANY OF THEM, and way too many which are ugly or out-of-place. I'm rarely happy with what I find or craft, and that's indeed a problem... although pretty subjective.
However, I would honestly be pretty bored of having merely "tacticool" options too. That's actually a problem I have with games like Call of Duty and the likes, where every character and every piece of loot is just yet another helmet or combat boots... It's realistic yeah, but everything and everyone ends up looking the same. It's a video game after all, let us have some fun if we want to ! I won't dress up as either a clown or a gold-plated pimp, but I'm happy that we have a punk gal, a metalhead, a DJ in addition to police agents and soldiers. Especially since it's NOT a military simulation and never pretended to be one. It's a zed invasion and we control mercenaries... Although it's doubtful a guy like Foster could take on such vicious beasts, I'm glad he's there.
Very few of them are game-breaking, but I can't think of many who are totally useless either. The level of details is quite abysmal however, but easily explained by the fact that it's no longer Tripwire's work. I'm not surprised that Saber is much less effective at giving us a "gun feel" that's on par with what Tripwire used to be a master at.
Yes, every update brings forward more furious people (and if you lurked in the forums enough, you probably saw I'm one of them), but DLCs themselves are not to blame: the things they do with them are. It's both a matter of content creep (as you mention) and unsatisfying content, either because it's OP/UP or just because it will quickly be forgotten by other weapons players are more used to and comfortable with.
Of course it would be much better if Tripwire thought of quality before quantity. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Hasn't been for years.
I'll end up with two very simple ideas. First : if you don't like it, don't buy it. That sounds sassy or downright disrespectful, but that's the whole truth to it. I never paid to get the two DLC characters because I find them far too expensive for something that doesn't change gameplay. Nobody is ever forced to indulge in DLCs, except when they are very obviously pay-to-win (and it's not really the case for KF2). So if those season passes seem like a scam to you... Don't give them your money ! A lot of gamers are ready to die for their favorite studios and will defend all their decisions, when we should keep in mind that players are not just fans... they're customers. Paying for a product. It's perfectly normal to wish for a game that works and is fun to play. And the best way to express discontent is precisely by not giving any more money.
Second, if the G36C and FAMAS are anything to go by, I don't think the AUG would be or feel any better. It's not because they start with a real-life weapon that it will have an edge in regards to made-up weapons. In the end, animations, stats and handling are all subject to Saber's tweaking.
That's hardly a fair comparison but alright.
However, I'm like 90% sure those are "non-canon" if you want to put it that way. Just like I doubt bloodthirsty zeds decided to dress-up for Xmas. Or that all bosses made infinite clones of themselves. Wacky outfits are fairly commonplace in arcade-ish shooters, that doesn't mean it's part of the lore. You could find hundreds of examples like that. Did CJ really complete GTA:San Andreas in his underwear and fully overweight? Did the protagonists of Dead Rising really fight thousands of zombies with a bucket? Does Geralt really wander the world playing Gwynt whenever he cans instead of completing the main quest? Not everything has to be explained, not everything has to make sense. Sometimes, stuff are possible or available just to give more liberties to the players, more creativity... or simply more fun.
I'm not saying KF2 did it right. But at core level... It's definitely not something that bothers me all that much. Killing Floor was never meant to be that serious anyway. Nor did the lore ever matter all that much.
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