PzIV vs T-34 issue

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PGD03

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2006
123
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I'm asking you TWI people fix this thing ASAP please. Currently picking PzIV is easy mode with aimbot provided as T-34 has very little chance against PzIV if the commander is even a bit aware what's happening around him.

Before anyone starts crap talking about you have to do this or that when playing T-34 I'm telling you to stop talking. I'm in for realism.

1. Ranges are very short in most maps. T-34/76's main gun has easily enough penetration power in these maps.

2. T-34/76 has more effective armor then PzIV aus F which should be the model used in Stalingrad. Sloped armor.

T34 had it's disadvantages including their crew training but that's not our fault. In T34 you already have to deal with bad view from turret, please don't punish us making these tanks even worse they actually were.

Post scriptum: I hope you'll reset stats after fixing all this crap going on now.
 

Greenh0rn

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 15, 2010
69
41
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I'm asking you TWI people fix this thing ASAP please. Currently picking PzIV is easy mode with aimbot provided as T-34 has very little chance against PzIV if the commander is even a bit aware what's happening around him.

Before anyone starts crap talking about you have to do this or that when playing T-34 I'm telling you to stop talking. I'm in for realism.

1. Ranges are very short in most maps. T-34/76's main gun has easily enough penetration power in these maps.

2. T-34/76 has more effective armor then PzIV aus F which should be the model used in Stalingrad. Sloped armor.

T34 had it's disadvantages including their crew training but that's not our fault. In T34 you already have to deal with bad view from turret, please don't punish us making these tanks even worse they actually were.

Post scriptum: I hope you'll reset stats after fixing all this crap going on now.

yes but that is true vice-versa pz4 f2 can shoot out a t-34 araund 1100-1200 m from front. the problem what i see here the russ tanks are get pawned because it seem there is no team work on the rus side, dont know why but the german side usually go in groups while the rus are alone and when you met yourselves agaist 2 or 3 pz 4 you havent got a chance
 
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skewp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2011
268
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Croatia
I don't really know man...Sometimes it's like you say. It feels as if all you have to do is look at the t34 and it blows up, and sometimes I shoot 5-6 carefuly aimed consecutive shots and the tank just won't blow up. Historically, PzIV definitely carried a better gun with higher velocity, but at the range at which tank battles are fought in combined arms maps I believe that t34 should have absolutely no problems regarding penetration, since PzIV had pretty sub par protection compared to t34's sloping chassis

I don't think that any of the 2 tanks has a huge edge over the other in this game. The problem is, every time I see a t34 tank being driven around the map, it's as if the commander has absolutely no idea what he's doing. I still claim that better players tend to join german teams all the time.
 
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DarknRahl

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 6, 2010
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I find it easier to kill Pz IVs on all maps except Gumrak in the t34 as the Pz IV has its ammo storage high on the tank making it a lot easier to hit. In the Pz IV it's often hard to get shots low on the t34 to hit its floor stored ammo.

On Gumrak I've had great success with the PzIV but that is because the t34s don't try and flank or hide until they get closer.

The Germans get a cuppola on their tanks which is nice and realistic, it did give superior protected vision but in gameplay terms it comes at a cost, the cost being you lose your commander immediately every battle when an AT class hits the cuppola, penetrates and kills your commander.

Also t34s can actually roll into firefights with infantry hiding in buildings on the flanks and be fine due to its 45mm sloped side armour. As soon as you allow infantry on your flank in the Pz IV you explode from being penetrated easily from AT rifles through your 30mm side armour.

The tanks are historically accurate in a game that makes historical accuracy somewhat of a focus, you need to adapt to the different tanks and learn their weak spots.
 

Mike133

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 13, 2011
150
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I still claim that better players tend to join german teams all the time.

Absolutely the case. With my fast internet I'm usually one of the 1st on a server, and by that time Axis always have 3-5 players while Russians have 0-1.

Unless you have a fast internet I don't see how you would ever get to play Axis since they fill up instantly and stay filled. Anytime I join a game already in session Russians is always only choice.

If that doesn't illustrate imbalance issues...nothing will.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
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Nargothrond
Another possible issue is, the AI gunner knows where the ammo boxes are. Players don't seem (I'm still trying to pinpoint them myself). A player in a T-34 is going to likely be the gunner / commander - which means no AI gunner.

A player in a Panzer IV may be playing as commander, allowing the AI gunner to get a few shots off before they switch to gunner (if they do).


Something else I've gathered - the T-34 is smaller, but the ammo hit boxes are suppose to be about the same size. That means if you hit ANYWHERE on the T-34, you're more likely to hit that box, than if you're hitting the Panzer IV, since a lot of the Panzer IV is "empty space" as far as one hit boxes go. This combined with the better optics in the Panzer IV really lets it out snipe the T-34 at range.


If this is how it was, this is how it should be. And the mapper needs to balance the game by having less Panzer IVs available if possible.


I guess this is how German tankers must have felt when their Tiger rounds harmlessly bounced off the T-34 when angled in RO1.
 
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feelmypecsbro

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 7, 2011
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Ive had pretty good success vs Pz4s on all maps. Aiming above the vision slit is the key to taking it out head on.

My biggest gripe in the match is... why oh why is the Pz4 turret impossible to penetrate? The damn thing had much thinner armor than the hull.
 

EvilAmericanMan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 27, 2005
1,331
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Palm Coast, FL
I don't think that any of the 2 tanks has a huge edge over the other in this game. The problem is, every time I see a t34 tank being driven around the map, it's as if the commander has absolutely no idea what he's doing. I still claim that better players tend to join german teams all the time.


Its partially because using tanks is a chore and a hassle. If Billy Mays were still around I'd be looking to him for the fast and easy way to move the tank around with the right amount of 'I'm driving a tank!' and 'Its fun driving a tank!'. RIP Billy...anyway the main problem is its so hard to see your surroundings in the T-34 due to a number of factors. One of which being the combined arms maps are hilariously undersized for the tanks.
 

Raquel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2011
383
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Portugal
seriously, this thread again ? I've been one shot by t34 many many many times, i fail to see where the imbalance is, you just have to know where to hit.
 

Devil_Inside

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 7, 2007
690
122
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Moldova
Ehm... I have an impression that tanks are extremely buggy.
Anti-tank rifles seem to have no effect most of the time, and they do penetrate on random. Same goes for AP tank rounds.

I was playing with the anti-tank rifle, and I was unable to kill a crew member at least once, even though I was shooting to the cupola and driver vision slits. It's either explosion on first shot (at a random spot), or 3 wasted magazines.
 

PGD03

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 30, 2006
123
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The thing that bothers me most is that when I'm in PzIV the hits really do not do much to me unless they hit my ammo. When I'm in T-34 someone sneezes other side of the world I'm immobilized, my crew is dead, my turret is broken. I'm able to align my tank in such way I don't always get killed by single hit but still It's very much harder in T-34 then in PzIV. In PzIV it's mostly easy to dominate the T-34s, in fallen heroes you can destroy the PzIVs if they are newbies but noobs can destroy you too by just spamming where ever. The times I've played gumrak It has been more balanced, maybe not so many noobs that time.
seriously, this thread again ? I've been one shot by t34 many many many times, i fail to see where the imbalance is, you just have to know where to hit.
Yes, seriously this thread again. You have been one shot because they hit your ammo box. With PzIV you can basically hit about anywhere to at least immobilize T-34 completely and then destroy it. The most retarded thing happened to me in T-34 was when I got hit in front and my engine broke which happens to be in back. That's a big pile of BS.
 
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F

Field Marshal Rommel

Guest
T-34/76 has more effective armor then PzIV aus F which should be the model used in Stalingrad. Sloped armor.
Not against a souped up 75mm KwK it doesn't although I agree with your first point.



DarknRahl said:
the cost being you lose your commander immediately every battle when an AT class hits the cuppola, penetrates and kills your commander.
Should not be penetrating (overpowered). Look here:

[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=874453&postcount=26[/URL]



feelmypecsbro said:
why oh why is the Pz4 turret impossible to penetrate? The damn thing had much thinner armor than the hull.
The model of Panzer IV in RO II resembles an F2. In that case the turret is just as thick as the hull (50mm):



Panzer IV F2
Hull Front (Upper) : 50mm @ 80
 
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trucane

Member
Sep 1, 2011
32
16
8
I agree. It's no fun at all using the tanks as russian. Me and a friend tried to do some tanking yesterday on pavlovs and the result was just sad. Every frontal hit to us had about a 50% chance of killing driver + mg gunner while none of our frontal hits even dented those Panzers. In the end I think we lost 7 tanks and only got 1 kill on them and after that they just spawn camped us insta killing us as we spawned.

I care about realism but it's no fun at all with the axis having such huge advantage not only when it comes to tanks but in all fields pretty much. To balance it I would suggest giving the russians 2:1 tank so that we can actually have a chance
 

bradleyg5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 17, 2011
131
55
0
Ok is there honestly any difference in shooting power or health points between the tanks? Aim just below the turret anywhere but head on and the PIV blows up all the same

I took 4 direct hits in the direct front of the turret with the T-34 without losing any crew. I'm sure the guy in the PzIV was complain about the t-34 being imbalance

I think it just really depends where you hit the tank, some areas will take as many rounds as you'll throw at them, and some areas just light up easy.

is there any bullet drop with the tank? is aiming above the target totally pointless?
 

Derpus

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2011
535
126
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Seems like it might be better to have 2 Russian tanks to 1 German on most maps. With that said, if you're more aware than your German foes, it's easy to beat them. I destroyed 2 Panzers in a row because I snuck up on them and finished them off before they could hit any vital areas.

Of course, there are other times where I hit the tank 2 times in the side, nothing happens, then he shoots me once in the front and I explode.
 

Stahlhelmii

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 16, 2011
721
401
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There really doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason on tank kills, even with the T34 where anti-tank rifles are concerned. I once snuck up behind a t34 with an anti-tank rifle. And I mean close, like under 10m. I set up and wailed against the external gas tank with an entire clip. Nothing happened. I switched tactics and fired at the rear armor. Another clip with no joy. Finally, on my next reload, I got snipered.

With T34's, I've caught MkIV's sleeping and wailed off 3 or 4 rounds many times, concentrating on the side armor (nothing), tracks/road wheels (nothing), center of the turret, nothing. Other times (but rarely), I've gotten a one-shot kill on the frontal armor. Huh?

Conversely, on Gumrak when stuck with the T34 I am constantly 1 shot killed through the frontal armor from extreme distance, yet most times when I face off with one frontally, even if for some reason the guy sleeps and doesn't fire back, I can fire 4 or 5 rounds at different locations like the driver's slit, turret ring, etc., and nothing happens.

Mi no comprende.
 
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UsF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 3, 2010
347
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Munich, Germany
The Panzer 4 is a Ausf. G (notable in the selection of vehicle when you pick tank commander).

The T-34s major problem is the frontal vulnerability to the tank turret, when shooting at or close to the main gun. Even an AT rifle seems to have no problem penetrating that thing frontally, which seems to be a bug, since I never heard of an AT rifle penetrating that thing at that spot this reliably. Also shooting that area generally kills the commander/gunner, making the tank unable to return fire. It also often destroy sthe main gun.

Other than that problem, the T-34 can take on Pz4 and exchange several shots with them. Just need a slight angle, better yet be hull down behind cover. The Pz4 can be killed reliably if you hit the lower front hull plate. Taking on the turret seems a waste of time, even though you get lots of penetrating shots (with mini explosions!), it doesn't seem to do much often.

I mostly play tanks as I like the tanking system. You feel powerful, yet vulnerable and need to be aware a lot. The T-34 is a good solo-tanker because of the periscope that can be used individually from the main gun and is mounted higher to look over small walls, making hull down easier to use. The Pz4 has better awareness and more crew, making it easier to take a hit which takes out the commander or gunner. It also has more penetrating power. Bsaically the Pz4 can stand in the open and the T-34 needs to be fast or efficient (as in hurt at the first shot). Using a T-34 from spawn 2 on Pavlovs house is very satisfying. Just need that turret "bug" looked at. I really cannot believe that this vulnerability is as easily exploited as it is in game, if it even exists. Anyone got info regarding this?
 

feelmypecsbro

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 7, 2011
24
9
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The model of Panzer IV in RO II resembles an F2. In that case the turret is just as thick as the hull (50mm):
So now things make even less sense, because in that case the T34s F-34 should have no trouble penetrating 50mm of armor at all but the most extreme ranges. Yet ingame you have to aim for very specific weak points on the front of the Pz4, otherwise penetration is impossible - which from a historical point of view is nonsensical.