Punish VS Forgive (TK)

[Colt .45 killer]

Fact, there are more accidental TK's then deliberate ones.
Second fact, not many people know about 'np' to forgive tk's and as such you are likely to get kicked if you use a weapon that is easier to tk with.

Can we please get it switched, as it has been discussed adnauseum before to a system where you have to opt in to punish instead of opt out? Considering the majority of TK's are accidental it makes sense to put the onus on the people who feel they have been deliberately tked to punish the tker.

 

[Yenooc]

Fact, there are more accidental TK's then deliberate ones.
Second fact, not many people know about 'np' to forgive tk's and as such you are likely to get kicked if you use a weapon that is easier to tk with.

Can we please get it switched, as it has been discussed adnauseum before to a system where you have to opt in to punish instead of opt out? Considering the majority of TK's are accidental it makes sense to put the onus on the people who feel they have been deliberately tked to punish the tker.

I've been killed by jerks who TK on purpose to up their kill stats, but it is clear that the overwhelming majority of TKs are accidental--some are even the killed player's fault. Just as one example, consider the commander who is tagged with TKs because other players on his team did not listen when he announced that artillery was about to hit an area.

 

[Pierre le Gay]

I can definately empathize for all the poor commanders out there who consistently warn their teammates of where their launching artillery strikes, and teammates run in anyway and usually 1-3 are killed in each barrage. Place on auto forgive and opt to punish so that people aren't auto kicked as often due to obviously accidental tks.

An example is when I was in a panzer on the big snow map, commisars house. I will admit it was a cheap tactic and every russian must've despised and cussed me, but I found a way to camp their spawn so they couldn't move out, and using my auto machine gunner and HE shells completely obliterated them as they attempted to escape killing maybe 50 in 10 minutes. Well I finally got killed by a salvo of suicidal anti tank rifle fire and as i moved back up I saw a teammate poking out of a trench in front of me, previous experience said he'd just be pushed aside as I went forward (maybe I was in relaxed mode when that happened) but instead it killed him, and combined with the other few tks i had when teammates were near my explosive shells it auto kicked me.

Is 50 enemy kills worth 3 accidental tks? The answer is yes, if it had been opt to forgive I'm sure all my teammates (unless their dicks, maybe not the guy I ran over though...) because they themselves had run into my high explosive fire as I fired repeatedly in the same area why'd they run there? So yeah, make auto kicks less sudden or something, because just getting a few tks while your kills is so much higher is just proportional, I can understand someone getting autokicked with 3 tks and 1 kill, but 3 tks and 50 kills? C'mon.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

The majority of times I'm TK'd is usually by accident, but the accident wouldn't have occurred in the first place if they opened their damn eyes and used their brains.

Capping an objective, almost have it.... then a team mate's grenade rolls around my feet and blows me up.... other times I see them, they seem me, I don't shoot them because I know they're a team mate.... I continue to play and a second later they shoot me. And other times, like on Apartments, I'm the commander, I order everybody to attack, I pop smoke, rush in, kill some Germans, start capping, then wonder where the rest of my team is.... oh there's one in the window of the apartment behind the bridge shooting from the window.

How did I know this? Because the little fk'r shot me.... no sorry comes from him, so no NP from me. I then make my way back there. The cap is held by some germans hiding behind the sandbags in the centre. I prep a grenade to toss over the sandbag so I can start capping.... I'm basically in the exact same spot I was in last time when I was TK'd, I'm about to toss the grenade..... and the same idiot in the window shoots me again.

What did he say?

"Oh wow, that's twice now...."

Yeah, no sh*t sherlock.

90% of the time I am TK'd, it could have been avoided and they deserve the neg points & punishments that come from it.

The other 10% of the time I was the stupid one who walked out in front of someone shooting whom I didn't see, or I ran into a room with a grenade which I didn't see.... so I np the TK.

But if I go into a room first and the guy behind me lobs a nade in after me, no NP for them.

I'm very unforgiving with my NP's, mostly because nobody bothers to NP me when I accidentally TK.

And if the options were switched around, me being unforviging with my TK's wouldn't change.

Sometimes people need to learn the hard way.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Perhaps thats you praxius, but I try to be forgiving of TK's, especially if people actually say "sorry for the tk". Also the auto kick is there to kick people who are deliberately tking. The stat system is supposed to punish people for regular mistake TK's. So they are already 'learning the hard way', however the system to kick them for being a deliberate twat is also kicking in. I am not suggesting only giving them the negative stat if you punish them, I am suggesting they get 1/5 of their necessary tk's to kick if you punish.

edit:

Perhaps this could be a setting in the options somewhere with the default set to opt in punish?

 

[flavin420]

I have a problem of shooting at anyone that shoots at me, sometimes those are jumpy friendlies running around a corner, and sometimes that jumpy friendly is me.

I always say sorry though, and np twice

 

[Jorg Biermann1]

TKs should give -XP and -Kills for weapons stats.

Also the NP system should be like Ostfront "XXX is forgiven"

 

[hishnik]

I agree with auto forgive, and option to punish.
I'd go a step further, as a prominent commander, i know exactly how the TK's go. You type in chat, you say in VC, you type again, and warn again in VC, as you're placing that arty on the path of enemies assault... And someone from your team, is absolutely BOUND to go and check just what the epicenter of the arty strike looks like, as it's coming down.

Possible solution: Modify the 'autokick' script, to take into count enemy kill to TK ratio. Have the default be at least 10%, lets face it, it would be a historical event if #1 player on any team, would lose it and start TKing on purpose. As one of folks before me said, 50 enemy reinforcements vs. 3 of ours isnt worth being kicked over.

 

[Murphy]

That's a great suggestion, Colt. Should be easy enough to implement and it would get rid of the problem that people get kicked for teamkills that are forgiven seconds later, because the game adds them up first and only removes them when they're forgiven. If it's assumed, by default, that they are forgiven and they only get added to the count when someone opts to punish we wouldn't have this problem.

Admittedly, it's a small issue, but still.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Yep murphy.


However I would say it is a minor problem for most classes, but engineers with satchels, MG's covering, and Commander with Arty are all three examples of classes you can play where you are always nervous of your impending disconnect ( and also loss of all stats for that round ).

which just made me think of something.

If you get auto kicked for 3-5 TKs BEFORE round end, and the subsequent stats save. Then doesnt the honour system do NOTHING at all towards deterring real teamkillers? They can TK until they get autokicked, ( no stats save ), or if the server has no limits, tk freely until the final 30 seconds then DC.

 

[Vyllis]

A punish system will just stop me to play MG, Commander, Engineer and tank.

In a game like this one, punish people, is just retarded. They already get kick if the server admin set up the auto-kick function.

 

[LOOY]

Yeah most TKs are accidental, sometimes they are the killed persons fault too. Earlier today a guy fired about 10 MP40 rounds at me before stopping, I assumed he'd run out of ammo so I quickly blasted him with my own gun only to find out he was a team mate. For this reason, I don't take enemy weapons unless I'm desperate. Especially the MP40/PPSH as those have very distinctive sounds.

 

[Holy.Death]

Swapping punish with forgive is not a big deal in itself. Reasonable people killed in reasonable circumstances will forgive. If circumstances weren't reasonable they won't. It's as simple as that. It's fair.

However, there are classes that should have bigger limits of tk's, because more often than not it's not these people's fault if they do their job, try to warn their teammates who simple ignore explosives/artillery/MG's and die.

When one kills another in a situation he could have avoided then he should be punished. When one kills another only because said another wasn't wise enough to listen/think... That's another's fault only.

Eventually though, I think it would be wiser to have an option punish some people (obviously blind ones who can't learn to identify the target instead shoot anything that moves, people killing on purpose, etc.) rather than forgive people doing their job right (I mean COMPETENT commanders, engineers, machine gunners, etc).

 

[Murphy]

A punish system will just stop me to play MG, Commander, Engineer and tank.

In a game like this one, punish people, is just retarded. They already get kick if the server admin set up the auto-kick function.

Read the suggestion again. The "punish system" as you call it is in place right now! The suggestion would in fact lessen it's impact under certain circumstances without limiting a player's options in any way.

It's one of those very rare suggestions that has literally now draw-backs (aside from having to implement it) and only makes the game objectively better.

 

[Lutze]

A punish system will just stop me to play MG, Commander, Engineer and tank.

In a game like this one, punish people, is just retarded. They already get kick if the server admin set up the auto-kick function.

Yeah I think you missed the point here...

EDIT: Also great idea OP, most TK's are accidental. At the very least I would like to see an acknowledgement message for forgives, at the moment I have to type it twice just so the guy can see I'm not (usually) being a grudge-holding asshat.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Bumping this up again as I've been session banned for tk's three times today.

Once or twice because killing somone who gets auto switched DOES count as a tk ( I know because I was kicked as I shot an enemy ).

But mostly because I've been playing MG all day long, and some people are dumb enough to walk or run right into a stream of tracers coming from your gun, or stand right infront of it.

Why should I get punished for other peoples stupidity?

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

Bumping this up again as I've been session banned for tk's three times today.

Once or twice because killing somone who gets auto switched DOES count as a tk ( I know because I was kicked as I shot an enemy ).

But mostly because I've been playing MG all day long, and some people are dumb enough to walk or run right into a stream of tracers coming from your gun, or stand right infront of it.

Why should I get punished for other peoples stupidity?

Maybe you should keep an eye out for those around you.

The last time I TK'd a team mate as an MG was indeed my own damn fault because I thought my Commander was a Russian SL or Commander due to where he was and his hat off in the distance, and I hit him a few times and the last shot was at his head, dropping him to the ground, which was when I saw I TK'd him and yes.... I said sorry, I was the idiot & it was my fault.... but I didn't expect him to NP me.... which I don't think he did.

No matter.

But I can't remember the last time I killed someone who ran out in front of me.... I see them coming from around me and towards my line of fire and I stop shooting. I'd rather be taken out by an enemy than to take out a team mate and possibly take the enemy out afterwards. It's simply not worth it.

Sure they shouldn't have run out in front of me, but I'm there to support my advancing team and that usually means I am supporting them from behind the path in which they are advancing, thus team mates will run out in front of me from time to time and into my line of fire.

If an enemy is shooting at me and a team mate runs out in front of me, I duck under the cover I am using so at least I don't get shot at, I don't shoot my team mate, and he can deal with the enemy shooting in our direction since he's blocking my line of fire.

As a commander calling Arty, I am always giving out at least 3 text warnings for my team on exactly where I am going to call the Arty and tell them exactly how many salvos are left so they know when it's safe to advance.... 9 times out of 10, nobody on my team is injured or killed by my arty when doing this (which is something I've done since the mod days and works great).... the other 1 time out of 10 is usally some clown who didn't read the warning or thought they could rush through the arty and ended up killed or injured.

Crap happens and I accept that.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

the shooting position that I was in had cover on my peripherals, so from the time I see a teamate, he is basically already under my gun. If I am already firing a burst, he is dead.

I usually have little problems with TK's being able to play a long time and not get any tk's at all.

Sh1t happens though, and players already have the negative points to their score for teamkilling. The kick from server is supposed to be there to protect from deliberate teamkillers.

 

[Vyllis]

Yeah I think you missed the point here...

Yes, sorry !

 

[Holy.Death]

Maybe you should keep an eye out for those around you.

This should apply to all teammates, no sane man would run under friendly fire when he can avoid it. He can always approach from the side or crawl to be less of a target and keep my line of fire clean at the same time, because it's my LMG - which is keeping the area clear - let him advance in the first place.