PTRD Soldat

[Oldih]

One quick solution for PTRD class thing would be something like this:

70% chance that you will get PTRD + Pistol
20% chance that you will get PTRD + Mosin, less ammo for PTRD though.
10% chance that you will get PTRD + PPSh with one magazine only.


/me prepares my riot shield ready.

 

[piller]

nice idea, but I like being able to choose my weapon.

Might make a good mod though

 

[Lemur]

...The best part about the AT-rifle is that in real life the Panzer IV is invulnerable to it except in the back.It takes alot of side shots to kill a PanzerIII.

Front armour of later Panzer models was bad news for the PTRD but sides without Sch

 

[Kipper]

Obviously there are other issues at hand when dealing with infantry AT weapons in game. However, as it is now, it'd be very simple to add a PPSh or Mosin to the PTRD soldat. There are no real drawbacks that I can see.

 

[sander]

RO really needs to changes some thing for AT soldiers. Here are the things I think that they are the best.

Germans:

-Combat engineer: Can choose for an geballte ladung, magnetic mine http://www.relics.org.uk/mmm/p039.jpg or an satchel.
- AT soldier (1941-1944): AT rifle
- AT soldier (1944): ONE panzerfaust (but it needs to be stronger, one hit weapon) There are enough supply zones to get an new one.

The Panzerschreck wasn't used a lot, maybe one as an pickup?

I'm don't know a lot about the Russians but maybe someone can at some things here?

Russians:

-Combat engineer: RPG 43 or satchel
-AT soldier: PTRS-41 with an moisan nagant. The PTRS needs to be toned a bit down. Killing an Panther with a AT rifle is imposible. This class can't be chosen in maps like Konigsplatz as they weren't used there.

 

[Nebfer]

Acording to the KstNs the Germans where issuing 18 Panzerschreck's per battalion (with 9 platoons per battalion...)

 

[piller]

So thats 2 per platoon/gruppe and 1 per squad/zug assuming each squad had an anti-tank soldier?

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

RO really needs to changes some thing for AT soldiers. Here are the things I think that they are the best.

Germans:

-Combat engineer: Can choose for an geballte ladung, magnetic mine http://www.relics.org.uk/mmm/p039.jpg or an satchel.
- AT soldier (1941-1944): AT rifle
- AT soldier (1944): ONE panzerfaust (but it needs to be stronger, one hit weapon) There are enough supply zones to get an new one.

The Panzerschreck wasn't used a lot, maybe one as an pickup?.

No, the Germans phased out their AT-rifles at the end of 1941 some stayed on as converted grenade launchers.
The Panzerfaust/Faustpatrone was made and was readily available in 1943 to the end of the war.
Panzershreck not used a lot? The total production of the Panzershreck 54 was:
289,151. So German At infantry should be equiped with the Panzershrecks from 1944-1945 (perhaps a few issued in late 1943).
Really every single tank in game shouldnt even take 1 direct panzerfaust hit seeing as it can penetrate 200mm of armor.

Pz.III Ausf L or M
Front: 70mm(front is 70 not 50mm)
Side: 30mm
Rear: 50mm

-
Heres a realistic loadout by years of service -They should get a choice of the following.
1941- At-rifles, Satchals, and the Geballte Ladung.
1942-Few AT-rifles,satchals,Hafthohlladung(Magentic AT-mine),and the Geballte Ladung.
1943-Panzerfaust,Hafthohlladung, satchals,and theGeballte Ladung.
1944-1945 Panzerfausts,Panzershreck,Hafthohlladung,satchal, and the Geballte Ladung.

 

[Eater1]

But the Soviet antitank rifle can kill a Panzer IV F1or F2 as well as the Panzer III frontally in one shot from a long distance. Play Berezina or Arad it gets very annoying.The best part about the AT-rifle is that in real life the Panzer IV is invulnerable to it except in the back.It takes alot of side shots to kill a PanzerIII.Everything else should be invulnerable to the PTRD and every anti tank rifle loses power very quickly so long range shots wouldnt penetrate.
If they were gonna make the Soviet at-rifle stronger they should have made it "realistically strong" so it takes fewer shots to the rear/side of the Panzer IV/III.
The Panzerfaust is a closer range weapon and is mostly a one shot weapon with most tanks like the IS-2 (which has more armor than the T-34) yet when fired at a T-34 it takes 2 Panzerfausts to subdue it even though the current Panzerfaust in game should penetrate 200mm of armor.It strikes me as odd that the "common " German tanks can be subdued by 1 well placed shot of a PTRD in the front and the most common Soviet tanks T-34/76 and the 85 required 2 Panzerfaust hits to subdue even when more armored tanks like the IS-2 only need 1.

I'm not sure what game you're playing. I suppose since you've never actually used the PTRD in-game, so you imagine that it somehow can take out PzIV and PzIII with "one shot to the front." This is simply not the case. A skilled gunner can take out a PzIV or PzIII with one shot to the side, but only if he hits the ammo storage. There is nothing unrealistic about this. The PTRD could penetrate side armor on both those tanks, and if a very large, fast-moving bullet hits a bunch of shells filled with explosives, bad things will ensue. Interestingly, the PTRD has just barely enough penetration to penetrate a Panther from the side (Panther has relatively little armor on the side compared to front, unlike Tiger, which is very thick all around), though not reliably and only at a perfect angle. In game, this seems to be reflected fairly well - in practice mode, I need about 10 perfect 90 degree shots from about 5 feet away to the ammo box in order to destroy a Panther (and I know exactly where that ammo box is), so in-game this would be very rare.
Also, this stuff about the Panzerfaust doesn't really happen in game from what I've observed. The PF seems to take 2 shots with all tanks, but sometimes destroys them in 1. Realistically, if the PF strikes something like the tracks or the road wheels, it probably wouldn't actually penetrate the tank due to the nature of the shaped charge - all of the force would be sent into the wheel or track, destroying it, but not actually reaching the hull. Likewise, no weapon is 100% reliable, though it does seem like it *consistently* takes two shots, which seems quite odd.

 

[Lemur]

Pz.III Ausf L or M
Front: 70mm(front is 70 not 50mm)
Side: 30mm
Rear: 50mm
-

You probably mean 50+30mm for the front hull armour.
Anyways, the weakest front armour was still 50mm on the turret.

Heres a realistic loadout by years of service -They should get a choice of the following.
1941- At-rifles, Satchals, and the Geballte Ladung.
1942-Few AT-rifles,satchals,Hafthohlladung(Magentic AT-mine),and the Geballte Ladung.
1943-Panzerfaust,Hafthohlladung, satchals,and theGeballte Ladung.
1944-1945 Panzerfausts,Panzershreck,Hafthohlladung,satchal, and the Geballte Ladung.

Sounds about right. The Panzerfaust had very limited use in 1943 though. The ones they made were not really distributed to front lines that much.

I'm not sure what game you're playing. I suppose since you've never actually used the PTRD in-game, so you imagine that it somehow can take out PzIV and PzIII with "one shot to the front." This is simply not the case. A skilled gunner can take out a PzIV or PzIII with one shot to the side, but only if he hits the ammo storage. There is nothing unrealistic about this. The PTRD could penetrate side armor on both those tanks, and if a very large, fast-moving bullet hits a bunch of shells filled with explosives, bad things will ensue.

I have succeeded in getting one or two Pz.III frontal one hit kills.

The last "shootout" against a decently skilled crew needed ~10 rounds to get the Pz.III smoking good, after which the tank retreated from my line of sight. I could only shoot the turret as the tank kept its hull down position. Somehow I didn't get hit from its MG even though they gave me a few good bursts.

Interestingly, the PTRD has just barely enough penetration to penetrate a Panther from the side (Panther has relatively little armor on the side compared to front, unlike Tiger, which is very thick all around), though not reliably and only at a perfect angle. In game, this seems to be reflected fairly well - in practice mode, I need about 10 perfect 90 degree shots from about 5 feet away to the ammo box in order to destroy a Panther (and I know exactly where that ammo box is), so in-game this would be very rare.

I never really use PTRD against Panthers or Tigers anymore. I only take out the commander if he is brave enough to take a peek.

 

[Tak]

The problem with PTRDs penetrating on the front of tanks is just from the current calculations having a hard time dealing with absolutes and extremes. It's the same mess that goes into a JS-2 bouncing off a Stug or a Tiger 88 bouncing off of a SU-76. The game just doesn't handle 'always penetrate' or 'never penetrate' very well, at the moment.


As to load outs, I think they're fine, but I would like to see the PFausts reduced to one per AT soldat (giving one to every German infantry would destroy balance on CA maps) but make that PF the lethal ***** that it should be. Really, it's a beautifully effective weapon (and maybe people will quit wasting them on infantry if they only had one )

 

[ROMMEL34]

You probably mean 50+30mm for the front hull armour.
Anyways, the weakest front armour was still 50mm on the turret

Incorrect!!!
Panzer III L/M:

Hull Front (Upper) : 50mm @ 69

 

[Mormegil]

I'd like to see Fausters only able to carry 2 primary weapons (and I think that's a stretch).

So either 1 SMG + 1 PF or 2 PF.

This idea of carrying 3xPF (weighing 45 pounds), plus SMG seems a bit unrealistic to me...unless every AT soldier was a Schwartzenegger.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

I'm not sure what game you're playing. I suppose since you've never actually used the PTRD in-game, so you imagine that it somehow can take out PzIV and PzIII with "one shot to the front." This is simply not the case. A skilled gunner can take out a PzIV or PzIII with one shot to the side, but only if he hits the ammo storage. There is nothing unrealistic about this. The PTRD could penetrate side armor on both those tanks, and if a very large, fast-moving bullet hits a bunch of shells filled with explosives, bad things will ensue. Interestingly, the PTRD has just barely enough penetration to penetrate a Panther from the side (Panther has relatively little armor on the side compared to front, unlike Tiger, which is very thick all around), though not reliably and only at a perfect angle. In game, this seems to be reflected fairly well - in practice mode, I need about 10 perfect 90 degree shots from about 5 feet away to the ammo box in order to destroy a Panther (and I know exactly where that ammo box is), so in-game this would be very rare.
Also, this stuff about the Panzerfaust doesn't really happen in game from what I've observed. The PF seems to take 2 shots with all tanks, but sometimes destroys them in 1. Realistically, if the PF strikes something like the tracks or the road wheels, it probably wouldn't actually penetrate the tank due to the nature of the shaped charge - all of the force would be sent into the wheel or track, destroying it, but not actually reaching the hull. Likewise, no weapon is 100% reliable, though it does seem like it *consistently* takes two shots, which seems quite odd.

Well thats my point exactly the Ptrd shouldnt damage the Panther or the Tiger because they were too heavly armored to be penetrated by the Soviet At-rifle.Ive played Berezina and Arad Ive just got a fresh new tank Panzer IV/PanzerIII and Ive driven just outside the spawn just to be killed in one shot by a soviet Ptrd!Ive played Practise mode to see where they hit me its right below and to the right of the drivers viewing slit. The most a Ptrd should do it take out PanzerIVs from the rear and PanzerIII J's from the side .Its just ludicrous that the Ptrd can penetrate a Panther and a Tiger I in game! At a hundred meters It can only penetrate 35mm of armor after that it loses power.
As for the Panzerfaust I agree it shouldnt be 100% effective just like everyother gun. Yet it should penetrate all tanks in game in 1 shot direct 90 degree shot(at 100m) because at 100m 1 shot can penetrate 200mm of armor.
Ive used the Panzerfaust often especailly on Berlin so I can tell you every tank when shot at a perfect 90 degrees from the rear and close range will die in 1 shot except for the T-34/85 and 76 they always take 2 shots even at very close range. If someone can point me toward a good free demo maker Ill post some demos .
Also I have another small probelm with the Panzerfaust it shouldnt deflect as much as it does in game because in real life because the earlier Faustpatrone had a defelction problem against soviet tanks but they fixed it by altering the shape of the charge which became the Panzerfaust.

50,000 Panzerfaust 30's produced during august 1943

- this doesnt count Faustpatrone production.

 

[Lemur]

Incorrect!!!
Panzer III L/M:

Hull Front (Upper) : 50mm @ 69

 

[Nebfer]

So thats 2 per platoon/gruppe and 1 per squad/zug assuming each squad had an anti-tank soldier?

each Panzershreck had a two man team, A gunner and a loader the loader had a SMG (sometimes a rifle) and had most of the AT ammo (4 to 6 rounds), the Gunner had the Panzershreck and a pistole and perhaps one or two rounds of ammo for the Shreck

A team with Panzerfausts would have about 4 of them.

if thy do implemnt the Panzershreck I would recomend only 3 rounds and a Pistole. and a farly "long" reload time as you would have to "unsholder" the weapon and insert a new one and resholder it inorder to fire it.

 

[Kipper]

So we reduce the amount of 'fausts to two per AT soldier and give the PTRD soldier the option of a pistol, Mosin or PPSh. This sounds happy.

 

[Avenger]

I wouldn't be happy with it. The anti-tank guy shouldn't just arbitrarily be issued two weapons when the other infantry only get one. Back to the drawing board.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

Just give eveyone realistic loadouts and it should balance itself in game.

 

[Isaak Johnson]

Personally I feel that the anti-tank classes for both sides should be reworked in many ways. Heres how I would do it.

Each side has their anti-tank class of soldier, this class would have a pistol, grenades and his choice of main anti-tank weapon. I dont believe any anti-tank class should be granted with a basic rifle or SMG because in reality they had to depend on their teamates for that kind of firepower, and their teammates had to depend on them for their type of firepower. Thats where cooperation and teamwork come into play when it comes down to the Anti-Tank soldier and normal infantry, they each helped eachother take out the enemies the other couldn't take out themselves.

For both anti-tank sodlers they could pick from their nations respective Anti-Tank Rifle, PTRD and PTRS for Russians, and the 7.9-mm Anti-Tank Rifle for the Germans. (I couldn't find the actual name of the German Anti-Tank Rifle, but it does exist and was even produced in moderate numbers.) The Anti-Tank rifles would shine over the Anti-Tank rockes because of their accuracy and ability to shoot at long ranges, but very good shots are required to peneterate tank armor, but the rifles could also take out infantry too, which wasn't an origional use, but it was a plus. The Anti-Tank rifles for the Anti-Tank solders on both sides would mostly be geared for early war maps, but could also be used in later war maps at the map designers content.

Then for both sides the Anti-Tank rockets could also be selected, the Lend-Lease Bazooka for the Russians, and the Panzershrek for the Germans. The advantages of the Anti-Tank rockets is their superior firepower and ease of use, but you also have to get a lot closer to your target. Each of these is, of course, reloadable as the player will have multiple rockets. These Anti-Tank weapons would mostly be geared toward later war maps as the tanks got tougher and heavier.

This way both Anti-Tank classes for both sides are equal in many ways but also have their respective differences. But neither side will have a glaring advantage over the other as both sides have access to both the Anti-Tank Rifle and the Anti-Tank Rockets and still being compatable with history.

As for the Panzerfausts, I think a few things sould be changed. According to many different historical references, the Panzerfausts were so common and easy to make they were assigned to almost any individual instead of a specific type of soldier, so instead the Panzerfausts should ONLY spawn in boxes and near ammo supplies and depos like they are featured on many maps already. Which means that both sides can use them as long as they can hold or keep access of a specific place or objective, which I feel is more appropriate since many Russians did use captured Panzerfausts in the war. So I feel that keeping it as a spawning weapon would be best for it in particular.

Now I also feel that in order for the Panzerfausts power to be increased like many of you have been wanting, a few other changes should be made. Fist I beleive that you should only be able to carry ONE Panzerfaust, they did not have any carrying strap of any kind, so in reality you had to put your other weapon away to use the Panzerfaust. This also means that the palyer will drop the Panzerfaust if he switches to another weapon. Then I feel that the player should take a small to light-moderate hit in speed, stamina, or his ability to manuever, since the Panzerfaust was a bulky weapon that was hard to crawl and move with, and also because he is carrying the extra weight of the Panzerfaust along with his normal 30-60 pounds of equipment. Thats pretty heavy if you ask me.

Another main reason I feel that these limitations should be included is because I feel that the Panzerfausts, even with its currently nerfed power, is still to powerful because of the fact that its too easy to use, so easy in fact that you can shoot off all three of your shots within 6 seconds, which was just plain NOT realistic, and I only feel that the Panzerfaust can be givien its true power ONLY if its mobility fatures are included to go along with the package.

I would elaborate more, but I have ranted on long enough and I'm getting pretty tired. If you have any questions or comments about my Anti-Tank ideas I will be mroe than happy to anwer or converse with you.

Thank you for your time.