• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/
  • Weve updated the Tripwire Privacy Notice under our Policies to be clearer about our use of customer information to come in line with the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) rules that come into force today (25th May 2018). The following are highlights of our changes:


    We've incorporated the relevant concepts from the GDPR including joining the EU and Swiss Privacy Shield framework. We've added explanations for why and how Tripwire processes customer data and the types of data that we process, as well as information about your data protection rights.



    For more information about our privacy practices, please review the new Privacy Policy found here: https://tripwireinteractive.com/#/privacy-notice

PSA: Don't order from G2A or Kinguin ever.

PlatinumRooster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2014
187
0
0
This was going to be a response to someone bringing up the fact that KF2 is available for pre-order on G2A already. But considering how long it is, I figured I'd make my own post.

TL;DR: G2A and Kinguin harbor stolen keys. Never purchase from them.

Here's a conversation I had on Youtube about a month ago asking a Youtuber not to support G2A as a sponsor(As MANY Youtubers are doing right now) and enlightening the Youtubers audience as to why G2A and Kinguin are thieves.

The conversation went like this:

PlatinumRooster: Please don't support G2A or Kinguin. They get stolen keys.

"Dasman": G2A got 1 batch big deal. Don't buy EA games from them and it is ok.

PlatinumRooster: They have hundreds of thousands of stolen keys. EA is the only one to have gone through an authentication run with it and snagged it.

These keys aren't digitally generated. They come off of a physical game disc. They get stolen all the time and sold for a massive discount.

You can look up multiple older accounts of people getting keys revoked. And not just EA or Origin.

Physical shipments get stolen constantly. Primarily games that aren't globally locked in other countries.

Some keys are actually achieved by stolen credit cards too.

G2A won't get their hands dirty with the actual work, but they willingly take these keys and sell them knowing their background. G2A offered refunds this time because the big boys stepped up.

Look ANYWHERE without a developer/publisher tagline and you'll find plenty of situations where people don't get refunds when their keys don't work because it's an "incurred risk".


"Theblacksnake": What do you mean stolen keys? I bought some games from kinguin. Is it bad?

PlatinumRooster: +Theblacksnake Not all keys are bad. But theres a good chance that it could be a stolen key. And if the dveeloper or publisher of the game steps in, it'll be revoked and you'll most likely be out of a refund.

Physical copies are stolen in batches. Trucks. Ships. Etc.
Other keys are bought with stolen credit cards.
Some keys are buy in other countries (which have innately lower prices) and resold here which is basically undercutting the developer.

Buying a key from a non-ceritifed source such as Kinguin or G2A is not a good practice.

It enforces customers to undercut the market.

On top of that, buying a discounted key allows the company to continue their business buying super discounted stolen keys, greymarketed keys, and SOME legitimate keys.

But you'll never know what you got until the hammer comes down.


"Theblacksnake": Made a comment about how many of his keys were bad and mentioned something about piracy. His comment was removed.

PlatinumRooster: +Theblacksnake If you want raw numbers... You're likely in the clear.

But, discounted keys is worse than pirating IMO. A good portion of pirates actually BUY games once they try the pirated copy. This is a common practice now adays because rarely do developers release demos anymore. And because of so many failed and overhyped games these last few years, people have a hard time trusting the hype. So they pirate to test out the game, and buy if they like it. Not all pirates do that. But a good portion of them do.

Discounted keys on the other hand give zero revenue to steam(if it's offered on there) or the developer. Physical copies that are stolen are stolen before they're paid for. So the developer gets screwed.


"k1mpman": I didn't know this, thanks for informing me

"Rediroph": If you get a bad key they give you a 100% refund no big deal

"hooman arabzadeh": G2A worked fine 5 months ago

PlatinumRooster: +hooman arabzadeh Incorrect. There was another issue involving G2A and Kinguin with 7000 Sniper Elite keys around july of last year. Of course G2A and Kinguin werent the only culprits, but they were involved as well.

PlatinumRooster: +Rediroph People are only looking at the big picture with the massive loads of keys where the developers or publishers step it. With that kind of publicity, they need to offer refunds to keep customers. Without it, I hear over and over again people not being offered refunds. Day in and day out.

"MrIceDr4gon": The only stolen keys are coming from the g2a marketplace, where every user can sell a key. Only buy from the company g2a, then it's safe!

"KageNekoSamax": what about humble bundle and bundlestars?

"Justin Morssink": Thank god my PvZ key is still valid, but then again, I did buy it with G2A shield.

PlatinumRooster: +KageNekoSamax They're certified re-sellers. Its called Humble Bundle because developers OFFER them keys to sell at low prices. They get orders, and send the orders automatically to the developers who in part send keys back for them to give to the customers.

And when they're not GIVEN keys, they buy wholesale price from developers.

The concept of Wholesale is basically saying, "Hey Developer. Selling 10,000 copies of your game at retail price might be a little hard... so how about we buy 10,000 copies at a discounted price giving you a GUARANTEE immediate profit.

Most developers are down with this because its an instant influx of cash. While it may not be as much as 10,000 at retail value, it's a safer route because you never know how long it'll take to sell 10,000 copies at retail value. You'd rather sell 10,000 right now.

This method is also why Steam is so successful. A game might be year old and not make much sales anymore because its still at a pretty steep retail price of, say, $40. Steam puts in on sale for... $25 and all of a sudden, 10,000 copies fly of the shelves in an hour and a portion goes to the developer.

Now again, while it's not as much as 10,000 at retail value, the developer may have only been selling 300-400 copies of that game per month. With the steam sale, it just jumped up to 10,000.

For your mathematical digestion, in this scenario, the developer was only getting $16000 a month from selling at retail value(400 x $40). But when it went on sale and suddenly 10,000 copies were sold at $25 each (10,000 x $25), the gross sale is $250,000. Steam takes their cut. Lets say 50,000. And so the developer just made $200,000 in a single hour by selling their game cheap.


PlatinumRooster: +Justin Morssink The shield crap is just to get an extra dollar or two out of you. I was in the position where I wanted to buy a game from G2A about... 8 months ago. This is of course before I was any wiser about it. I was a little cautious and asked around about the shield. Other people responded saying it was bupkiss.

On the rare occasion you'll get reimbursed another key, they usually just offer some jargon-ish responded saying that their hands are tied and can't do anything.

And also... ask yourself this. If the keys are legitimate and will work as all the sheeple keep saying, why would you need to buy a protection plan for a digital code locked to your account anyway?

Shouldn't they want to do that for free like EVERY other digital game retailer?

Ya know... CUSTOMER SUPPORT???

It's because they KNOW their **** can be fraudulent and they keep going on with it because people keep buying.
 

Oy The Destroyer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 21, 2014
1,255
8
0
Not Here
Lol I told my little brother something didn't seem right about that website, but of course he knew everything so it was fine. I'll make him read this, thanks.
 

PlatinumRooster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2014
187
0
0
No problem. And I want to make a point real quick that no one should feel ashamed for purchasing from G2A. I've been in the position of not being able to afford that game that you REALLY want.

Over the last 2 years, I've matured as a gamer significantly when it's come to morals.

I care more for the developer than I ever have in the past and I care more for the consumer as well.

So, you do what you need to do. But a lot like safe sex; know the risks for unconventional methods before making the commitment and acknowledge the possible outcomes.
 

PlatinumRooster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2014
187
0
0
I bought from them a couple of times but was never aware they outright stole all of their keys.
Well to be clear, not ALL of their keys are stolen. In-fact, in the grand scheme of things, they have a lot of legitimate keys especially in their player-run marketplace.

The moral split comes in the fact that they purchase these key-dumps KNOWINGLY that they could very well be stolen.

And frankly, when you, as a company, are spending product money to purchase from some shady broker on the internet who ALONE has 200+ keys for a game from all around the world; it looks bad.

That just SOUNDS bad.

I'd say that about 70% of the keys on that website are stolen. And remember: We're talking numbers here. If there are 200,000 keys in their lot right now, that's 60,000 legitimate keys.
 

Gregs2k2

Thank you please
Mar 21, 2009
1,856
163
63
UK
www.ragequitters.co.uk
I used G2A for a while, until the whole Far Cry 4 debarcle kicked off. Ubisoft actually came good in the end and re-activated the blacklisted keys (both the main game and Season Pass) which were purchased using stolen Credit Cards.

I haven't used any non-approved vendors since. It just shows, if something is too good to be true, then it usually is.
 

Curunir

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 26, 2011
349
38
0
Bulgaria
I've bought more than a dozen games from Kinguin and had no issues, even when stuff was very cheap. This sort of fear-mongering is not useful at all.

I understand you want people to pay TWI a gazillion trillion dollars and buy everything full-price but if I can find a better deal than the Steam store price, I'm going to grab it. The regional pricing in Europe is ridiculous enough as it is.
 

UltraJake

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2014
1,071
0
0
Florida
Agreed. Last time someone warned me about buying TVs from some guy in an alley I told them to shove it. I'm saving money!
 

Gregs2k2

Thank you please
Mar 21, 2009
1,856
163
63
UK
www.ragequitters.co.uk
I've bought more than a dozen games from Kinguin and had no issues, even when stuff was very cheap. This sort of fear-mongering is not useful at all.

I understand you want people to pay TWI a gazillion trillion dollars and buy everything full-price but if I can find a better deal than the Steam store price, I'm going to grab it. The regional pricing in Europe is ridiculous enough as it is.
I don't view the OP as fear mongering, I view it as informing other people. I'm all for getting a good deal but not at the risk of losing money and being inconvenienced. G2A may be legit but I really question the way certain sellers procure their keys.

People's experiences vary. My two friends and I have all had bad ones. My other friend bought Windows 8 from G2A, all was fine for a month or two but then the key he bought has been flagged as non-genuine by Windows. He has to jump through so many hoops to get his money back.
 

nejcooo

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 23, 2012
3,042
0
0
23
Well as far as I know those keys are OK, and I'm 100% sure this game will 40 EUR + in Europe, so I'm gonna definitely find the way to get it cheaper.
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,282
2,718
0
I got Alien: Isolation through G2A before I knew about this... fug.

Well as long as my Steam account stays safe, I'm not overly worried.
 

PlatinumRooster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2014
187
0
0
I've bought more than a dozen games from Kinguin and had no issues, even when stuff was very cheap. This sort of fear-mongering is not useful at all.

I understand you want people to pay TWI a gazillion trillion dollars and buy everything full-price but if I can find a better deal than the Steam store price, I'm going to grab it. The regional pricing in Europe is ridiculous enough as it is.
1. It's not fear-mongering. I fear the day where we live in a country where providing useful information with factual evidence to back it up is considered fear-mongering.

2. The whole point of this wasn't even pertaining to TWI in particular. I made this thread because someone posted that Killing Floor 2 is available for Pre-Order on G2A already when it's not. Munk himself has even stepped in saying it was a scam. Even though that was already obvious to me and a few others, it's still been acknowledged by a Developer. And even though G2A may actually provide you with a key, the fact is that they have 'Pre-Orders' and prices up before the actual DEVELOPER does. That should say something off the bat. And considering Steams new gifting policy, you can expect a large delay on these 'Pre-Orders' getting to you.

And if you notice, the Pre-Order is for Asia. Who knows? For whatever reason, some folks in Asia may not be able to get this game and this might very well be overpriced for them taking advantage of other players.

And as an ADDITIONAL note: This is a pre-order for a STEAM(digital) key of the game. Some other options available in the checkout are getting it for other countries too where they apply their OWN VAT costs that drastically out scale standard international price scaling.

The folks at G2A are taking advantage of a LARGE grey market which no traces.

3. There's nothing wrong with getting something cheaper. Most legitimate sites that do re-selling are AT MOST $3 cheaper, or in the best case scenario; $5 cheaper. That's because they can make up for the lost money for buying the game at FULL PRICE and selling it back at a cheaper price in ad revenue which gives them just enough profit to stay afloat, expand, and get their name spread.

Anywhere that offers more than say $7 discount is suspicious and you can bet your bottom dollar that there is something wrong with it's process.

My goal is to strengthen the gaming community as a whole. Not let it fall under because of the deep dark corners no one inspects. Things like this are the spider nest in the under-corner of your desk that you NEVER see because your desk serves it's purpose and you don't bother to check or not. It will spread.

I unfortunately don't have much an opportunity in my life to be a pillar of the gaming community anymore. I've had to give up dreams to take the path I do now. If I was a pillar, I'd be making extreme progressive decisions for the industry. But I'm not. So all I can do is offer you some small tokens of advice. And with that knowledge now; if one of these keys comes back to bite you in the *** with illegitimacy, don't come looking for help.


Your analogy is stupid.
Care to explain?



Well as far as I know those keys are OK, and I'm 100% sure this game will 40 EUR + in Europe, so I'm gonna definitely find the way to get it cheaper.
Go for it. Just be conscious of your purchase. I feel for my fellow gamer's in other countries that have heavy taxes. Good luck to you.
 
Last edited:

zYnthetic

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 20, 2009
1,077
171
0
Atlanta-ish
www.zynthetic.com
Had a look at the G2A listing for KF2.

Box art is the PCGamer cover art (unconfirmed). ROW excluded in Germany (unconfirmed). ESRB, PEGI, USK rated (cant be until content complete). Preorder (not happening). English only (unconfirmed). Has specifically peculiar retail price of $43.36 but no system requirements.

It would be one thing to share this information for entertainment but to use it in a storefront is incredibly dishonest.
 

Deathgrip22

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 27, 2015
699
0
0
Glad there's people on the lookout for sites like this.

Funny this is, I've never even heard of these two sites.

Looked up the first one, talking about selling CD keys to use on Steam.

But my first impulse is, "Is this possible not legit? Why wouldn't Steam sell this to me themselves?"

When it comes to buying stuff internet, if something sounds like it could bad I stay away from it. Steam and Origin are established, but truth is I don't even like doing that.
 
Last edited:

Curunir

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 26, 2011
349
38
0
Bulgaria
You must either live in a hole or fail to grasp the basic idea of regional pricing and region locks or lack thereof. Here is the SteamDB page for the new GTA game, so you can get a bit of an idea how wildly prices for the same item can fluctuate around the world:

https://steamdb.info/app/271590/

Forgive me if I'm buying cheaper games from Kinguin while pulling my miserable 400 dollars per month, with Steam offering me the same games at double the price on Kinguin.

1. It's not fear-mongering. I fear the day where we live in a country where providing useful information with factual evidence to back it up is considered fear-mongering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QON6SSMLcC8 This one also goes out to Mr. Wilson, I suppose.
 
Last edited:

PlatinumRooster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 30, 2014
187
0
0
Curunir said:
You must either live in a hole or fail to grasp the basic idea of regional pricing and region locks or lack thereof.
Over-exaggeration is such an exhausted element. Please lay it to rest.

First off, I addressed something like region-locking in my Asia example(Albeit brief). I understand it's concept quite well. I don't need to express all my knowledge on a situation and EVERY aspect OF IT as proof. I'll sit here and assume you know quite a bit yourself(emphasis on the next paragraph) as a human being and NOT be sarcastic. Thank you.

Curunir said:
Forgive me if I'm buying cheaper games from Kinguin while pulling my miserable 400 dollars per month, with Steam offering me the same games at double the price on Kinguin.
As I had said previously: Feel free to purchase cheaper games but do it consciously and well aware of the risks (As I'm sure you already do). This post wasn't for those who already know, accept, and have actively participated in the risks involved in such a market. They've obviously made their choice and constantly choose to further partake in it. It was for those who didn't know any better and for those who never really had the second thought of grey-market re-sellers because, to be frank: What sucks more than having to go through a different route to pay less for a game is having that game taken away from you and you possibly not getting that money back.

And just some food for thought: I'm sure for yourself, living in a country where computer games marginally higher priced and consoles are astronomically priced can be kind of sucky...

But I'll go ahead and say straight out: I'd rather pay $15 more for a single game than pay an extra $60-$110 monthly for internet services. So, you enjoy your non-politically regimented internet access putting you 9th on the Worlds list of best internet accessibility. Count your blessings.

God bless, Bulgaria.

Curunir said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QON6SSMLcC8 This one also goes out to Mr. Wilson, I suppose.
Strawman... and quite tasteless. My statement can apply to any country. I obviously speak for myself about MY country in my statement of hoping that evidence-based arguments aren't seen as fear-mongering. I would hope you would want the same for your country whether you have it already or not. It was a universal statement.
 
Last edited:

Swanky

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 20, 2010
449
44
0
Germany
Interesting read, yet I would like to see some sources on the stolen keys, like evidence that can be linked to either company selling those stolen keys. Is there a link to the Far Cry 4 thingy somewhere?