It's slightly weird because primary attack uses more than 1 ammo per shot and sometimes you get stuck at 2 and cannot fire it.
Upvote
0
KF Project Santa
- Thread starter -=Ivan=-
- Start date
Next time don't inject code into the .uax to stop compiles, super simple to remove, do it elsewhere where Hex editing would be harder like .ukx.
Oh yeah on NitroSplat to prevent wierd issues with some ground textures set the clamp modes to TC_Clamp and not TC_Wrap. I'm gunna wait for the official release, cause this thing is broken beyond belief
Oh yeah on NitroSplat to prevent wierd issues with some ground textures set the clamp modes to TC_Clamp and not TC_Wrap. I'm gunna wait for the official release, cause this thing is broken beyond belief
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Well that's wierd, the .uax has all the code of the .u and when trying to compile the actual .u into another package will get type mismatches and everything else cause the code already exists within the .uax
Other things seem to break aswell such as the fire sounds will never play correctly instead play there base class version, the secondary fire will also not freeze zeds
Last edited:
Upvote
0
I just checked the uax file. Somehow the code in there too, I dont know why. Why do you want to recompile it? We will push out a new BETA version tomorrow with most of the bugs fixed!
Upvote
0
I usually add weapons to my primary server package and as they update I update with them (eg. getting all the edits I want to do out of the way), just found that code in the .uax to be really wierd
Upvote
0
Answering questions:
- This weapon is offering brand new gameplay mechanics and it's implemented withing a mutator, without submitting code changes to KFMod or overriding any zed classes. Basically, it doesn't break anything and it is compatible with almost everything, including whitelisted mutators, ServerPerks and custom zeds. But because of this we must deal many limitations and accept a few visual artifacts. But let's face it: if zeds are able to rotate to player's direction while stunned, then why they wouldn't do that why frozen?
I'm trying to do my best, but in this case the best seems not enough. - Setting off explosives and hitting friendly players will be fixed in the next patch.
- Ammo is intended to be expensive to prevent constant spamming, but it seems like that we made it too expensive.
- I have no idea how the code got into animation package. But it'll be fixed in the next patch.
- All assets will be combined into a single package before the final release.
- There will be special release for ServerPerks featuring ref model instead of static links (e.g. MeshRef instead of Mesh).
Upvote
0
Cool!
Do not forget to add bone 'tip' for 3rd and slightly increase the size of the 3rd and pickup.
Thx
Do not forget to add bone 'tip' for 3rd and slightly increase the size of the 3rd and pickup.
Thx
Upvote
0
It looks great, but, at the moment, not very fun. Lack of head-shots is very annoying and every time I try to shoot a frozen zed it feels like a waste of ammo.
Was decision to remove head-shots made because of technical reasons?
Was decision to remove head-shots made because of technical reasons?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
Thanks for the feedback guys!
Maybe it would be better to remove the freezing effect of the primary fire to make it more satisfieing. But before we do that we should do more testing.
Maybe it would be better to remove the freezing effect of the primary fire to make it more satisfieing. But before we do that we should do more testing.
Upvote
0
Hello
First of all, congratulations on your work, it looks neat and I see you put a lot of effort in making it an unique weapon while avoiding to create a zedgun V3. I've done some testing and gameplay analysis - and I got mixed feelings about it. While not particularly strong on its own, that gun can make the entire gameplay unbelievably easy in most camp situations. Sorry for the wall of text, I hope that this review will be of some use to you
The looks:
The gun looks great in first person. However, it seems very, very tiny in someone's hands in tpp or when laying on the ground. I'd say it should have similar size to HSG-1 shotgun, now it's kinda surreal that such a small contraption pours gallons of liquid.
I love the fog effect when the liquid hits the ground and the bubbles when hitting a zed are nice as well, however the stream doesn't look that great, and I'd say that decals left on the surfaces are kinda too vividly colored. Maybe something more icy-while would work?
It's a shame that zeds killed while being chilled are not getting shattered. There seem to be such effect, but only when zed is obliterated with explosives - which usually can't be really seen in full glory due to the smoke.
So far I see that it uses M7A3 and Zedgud MK2 sounds, do you plan to change them to other, unique ones?
General balance and usefulness for individual perks:
It's just basically useless vs big guys on 6-man hoe. FP's can't be frozen even by two people pouring stuff simultaneously, and SC's require almost an entire mag and unfreeze in a blink, as the player performing the freezing has to reload almost immediately after pouring enough stuff.
Due to the fact that frozen zeds have no headzones and headshot bonus doesn't count towards faster freezing, sharpshooters have no use of it other than taking long distance icicle headshots on little zeds for fun. The gun in hands of other players can be actually used to troll sharps by removing headzones on things he tries to shoot.
Firebugs and ice doesn't mix at all, but that's perfectly understandable.
Finally, due to added damage resistance, freeze mechanics and no headzones, a support on his own has little use of it as well, as combos are not possible to perform on chilled SCs. While using it in a team effort, when someone else does the freezing, 300% damage from pellets + penetration is just plainly overpowered and mows zeds insanely fast while spending a lot less ammo.
On the other hand, the speed at which it freezes trash mobs is just insane. A really short burst will freeze all the zeds that try to swarm an unsuspecting player, so the gun is a natural choice for a medic concentrated on preventing damage.
A commando is perhaps be the next class that could have some use of it, as it is akin in general to shooting other rifles, while additionally slows the progress of the enemies and benefits from faster reloads.
However, freezer is just immensely powerful vs small zeds in hands of the demo. You can almost instantly freeze all the trash that got too close, take a few steps back and lob single nade for a big fat kill. The fact that you can hold M32 along with it makes that two a dream loadout, as you have the power to take accurate headshots, remove crawlers easily, get away from dangerous situations without any harm and gather a lot of zeds closely packed together for efficient killing.
In my imagination I already see badzerks rocking a katana, an using Cryo Driver to freeze scrakes in order to get around them (which probably be kinda countered by zeds turning towards the player currently having aggro)...
The fact that you can tap lightly the secondary button once in a while and keep a lot of trash frozen, is totally overpowered in most camp scenarios. For example, on bioticslab you can use freezer to cork an entire hallway by chilling as little as 4-5 zeds, wait for about 20 more to gather, and obliterate them with a single demo M79 grenade in an enormous framerate - eating explosion. Sure, FPs can always enrage and tear through the icy zeds in no time, but scrakes are basically helpless. When you however manage to get FP to rage while standing behind a scrake, they are guaranteed to fight each other.
Overall, in current shape, the gun just enhances crappy playstyle. It makes broom closet camps even easier, to the point of being laughable. It also favors crappy shooting due to the removal of headzones, aids support AA12 bodyshooters, nade and commando spammers. At the same time, it has little to no potential use for skilled players. I'd really hate to see it becoming a next scrubgun.
In my opinion, freezing trash mobs is far to fast, while with biggies it's near impossible. Maybe that could be tweaked a bit, for example make freeze threshold at 50% health, but add 200% vulnerability to freezing for SCs and FPs - that way freezing trash would be harder, while biggies should be about the same, maybe a little easier to chill.
Also, I strongly recommend removing splash area of freezing, to avoid easy hallway corking and somewhat hinder the ability to for example stop an entire gorefast squad from dealing you any damage. That way the stream would only affect the one zed it lands upon.
It would be nice if sharpshooter headshot bonus also counted towards freezing damage, so a sharpy could freeze a scrake with accurate primary fire, and there would be actual reason to aim with this thing.
I like how the ammo is expensive, and it should stay that way. Final price of Cryo Driver as an offperk weapon should be no less than 1250-1500 in my opinion.
I think the decision of removing headzones while zeds are frozen and making a complicated freeze mechanics focused on amplifying generic damage to the ice structure is very interesting and original, but not a good call gameplay - wise, due to the potential to reward bad habits among players. Personally I'd prefer if the Cryo just granted zed 50% damage resistance but allowed for headshots. In that scenario, there still would be a reason to aim.
Bugs and exploits:
As other weapons of that type (blower, flamethrower, etc.) it can be used in pipe bomb exploit
You can make a stairway out of frozen crawlers and quite easily get onto areas you're not supposed to be on maps.
When used by sharpshooter, it causes glitchy-looking animations when you kill smaller zeds with single headshots.
First of all, congratulations on your work, it looks neat and I see you put a lot of effort in making it an unique weapon while avoiding to create a zedgun V3. I've done some testing and gameplay analysis - and I got mixed feelings about it. While not particularly strong on its own, that gun can make the entire gameplay unbelievably easy in most camp situations. Sorry for the wall of text, I hope that this review will be of some use to you
The looks:
The gun looks great in first person. However, it seems very, very tiny in someone's hands in tpp or when laying on the ground. I'd say it should have similar size to HSG-1 shotgun, now it's kinda surreal that such a small contraption pours gallons of liquid.
I love the fog effect when the liquid hits the ground and the bubbles when hitting a zed are nice as well, however the stream doesn't look that great, and I'd say that decals left on the surfaces are kinda too vividly colored. Maybe something more icy-while would work?
It's a shame that zeds killed while being chilled are not getting shattered. There seem to be such effect, but only when zed is obliterated with explosives - which usually can't be really seen in full glory due to the smoke.
So far I see that it uses M7A3 and Zedgud MK2 sounds, do you plan to change them to other, unique ones?
General balance and usefulness for individual perks:
It's just basically useless vs big guys on 6-man hoe. FP's can't be frozen even by two people pouring stuff simultaneously, and SC's require almost an entire mag and unfreeze in a blink, as the player performing the freezing has to reload almost immediately after pouring enough stuff.
Due to the fact that frozen zeds have no headzones and headshot bonus doesn't count towards faster freezing, sharpshooters have no use of it other than taking long distance icicle headshots on little zeds for fun. The gun in hands of other players can be actually used to troll sharps by removing headzones on things he tries to shoot.
Firebugs and ice doesn't mix at all, but that's perfectly understandable.
Finally, due to added damage resistance, freeze mechanics and no headzones, a support on his own has little use of it as well, as combos are not possible to perform on chilled SCs. While using it in a team effort, when someone else does the freezing, 300% damage from pellets + penetration is just plainly overpowered and mows zeds insanely fast while spending a lot less ammo.
On the other hand, the speed at which it freezes trash mobs is just insane. A really short burst will freeze all the zeds that try to swarm an unsuspecting player, so the gun is a natural choice for a medic concentrated on preventing damage.
A commando is perhaps be the next class that could have some use of it, as it is akin in general to shooting other rifles, while additionally slows the progress of the enemies and benefits from faster reloads.
However, freezer is just immensely powerful vs small zeds in hands of the demo. You can almost instantly freeze all the trash that got too close, take a few steps back and lob single nade for a big fat kill. The fact that you can hold M32 along with it makes that two a dream loadout, as you have the power to take accurate headshots, remove crawlers easily, get away from dangerous situations without any harm and gather a lot of zeds closely packed together for efficient killing.
In my imagination I already see badzerks rocking a katana, an using Cryo Driver to freeze scrakes in order to get around them (which probably be kinda countered by zeds turning towards the player currently having aggro)...
The fact that you can tap lightly the secondary button once in a while and keep a lot of trash frozen, is totally overpowered in most camp scenarios. For example, on bioticslab you can use freezer to cork an entire hallway by chilling as little as 4-5 zeds, wait for about 20 more to gather, and obliterate them with a single demo M79 grenade in an enormous framerate - eating explosion. Sure, FPs can always enrage and tear through the icy zeds in no time, but scrakes are basically helpless. When you however manage to get FP to rage while standing behind a scrake, they are guaranteed to fight each other.
Overall, in current shape, the gun just enhances crappy playstyle. It makes broom closet camps even easier, to the point of being laughable. It also favors crappy shooting due to the removal of headzones, aids support AA12 bodyshooters, nade and commando spammers. At the same time, it has little to no potential use for skilled players. I'd really hate to see it becoming a next scrubgun.
In my opinion, freezing trash mobs is far to fast, while with biggies it's near impossible. Maybe that could be tweaked a bit, for example make freeze threshold at 50% health, but add 200% vulnerability to freezing for SCs and FPs - that way freezing trash would be harder, while biggies should be about the same, maybe a little easier to chill.
Also, I strongly recommend removing splash area of freezing, to avoid easy hallway corking and somewhat hinder the ability to for example stop an entire gorefast squad from dealing you any damage. That way the stream would only affect the one zed it lands upon.
It would be nice if sharpshooter headshot bonus also counted towards freezing damage, so a sharpy could freeze a scrake with accurate primary fire, and there would be actual reason to aim with this thing.
I like how the ammo is expensive, and it should stay that way. Final price of Cryo Driver as an offperk weapon should be no less than 1250-1500 in my opinion.
I think the decision of removing headzones while zeds are frozen and making a complicated freeze mechanics focused on amplifying generic damage to the ice structure is very interesting and original, but not a good call gameplay - wise, due to the potential to reward bad habits among players. Personally I'd prefer if the Cryo just granted zed 50% damage resistance but allowed for headshots. In that scenario, there still would be a reason to aim.
Bugs and exploits:
As other weapons of that type (blower, flamethrower, etc.) it can be used in pipe bomb exploit
You can make a stairway out of frozen crawlers and quite easily get onto areas you're not supposed to be on maps.
When used by sharpshooter, it causes glitchy-looking animations when you kill smaller zeds with single headshots.
Upvote
0
BETA 02 Changelog:
- Damage to ice structure raised to 5x (up from 3x)
- Lowered ammo cost to $45 (down from $66)
- NitroProjectile ignores friendly players and projectiles
- NitroProjectile doesn't trigger nades and rockets
- NitroSplash texture fixed
- Added tip to 3rd person model
- Increased size of 3rd person model
- Pickup's DrawScale set to 1.5
- Combined IJC_ProjectSanta.ukx and IJC_ProjectSanta_3rd.ukx into IJC_Project_Santa_A.ukx
- Renamed IJC_Project_Santa.uax to IJC_Project_Santa_SND.uax
- Merged KF_IJC_Project_Santa_Effects.utx into KF_IJC_Project_Santa.utx
- Renamed class FreezerNitroProjectile to NitroProjectie
Please remove all previous files before installing the new version!
The "Zed breaking" effect will be added in the next version. Balancing wise we will try to find the best solution too.
Thanks for the great feedback!
The "Zed breaking" effect will be added in the next version. Balancing wise we will try to find the best solution too.
Thanks for the great feedback!
Upvote
0
I really think the damage modifications need to be rethought out and this pretty much nails the issue on the head.
A 33% reduction to headshot damage would be a much better idea than removing it completely since, as vealck pointed out, this completely kills a sharpshooter's ability to, well, be a sharpshooter. 33% means that the sharpshooter needs to put in 3 times the headshots they originally needed to. This is a drain on ammo and time, something you don't have much of during waves 8 -10 in the late wave time.
The damage bonus shouldn't be increased pasted 3x damage. Even at 3x damage you can essentially turn a game into Spamming Floor if you have enough supports specialists, but that would require some coordination.
When playing as demo with this gun on the first beta version, the damage bonus for explosives it didn't seem to be working. Zeds didn't seem to die any faster, as far I could tell.
Upvote
0
@vealck
Thanks for a great feedback. I'll try to answer a few questions.
Shattering effect (breaking ice) is under construction. It will be there on final release.
Cryo Gun isn't supposed to freeze Scrake and Fleshpounds. As you said correctly, it takes almost entire magazine to freeze Scrake, and it should be used as emergency not as common technique.
Sharpshooter's headshot multiplier is taken into account in freezing calculations. But Cryo Gun is off-perk weapon, so sharpie has only 50% headshot damage bonus, which in turn leads to 50% faster freezing. It is barely noticeable, but for example, 6p HoE Gorefasts or Husks decapitated by Sharpshooter freeze until death while decapitated by other perks unfreeze and keep moving.
Headshots disabled because of both: technical and balance reasons. From gameplay aspect it would be too easy to do headshots on still target. But from technical view... You know, it is KF: who can guarantee that zed's head on server side is in exact place where client sees it?
Secondary fire's blast radius appears too wide. I agree with that. But lowering it down to 0 is not an option. I tried it already. It ended up with small Clot in front completely blocked and made impossible to freeze big fat Bloat behind. Maybe we need to set the radius somewhere in the middle...
Thanks for a great feedback. I'll try to answer a few questions.
Shattering effect (breaking ice) is under construction. It will be there on final release.
Cryo Gun isn't supposed to freeze Scrake and Fleshpounds. As you said correctly, it takes almost entire magazine to freeze Scrake, and it should be used as emergency not as common technique.
Sharpshooter's headshot multiplier is taken into account in freezing calculations. But Cryo Gun is off-perk weapon, so sharpie has only 50% headshot damage bonus, which in turn leads to 50% faster freezing. It is barely noticeable, but for example, 6p HoE Gorefasts or Husks decapitated by Sharpshooter freeze until death while decapitated by other perks unfreeze and keep moving.
Headshots disabled because of both: technical and balance reasons. From gameplay aspect it would be too easy to do headshots on still target. But from technical view... You know, it is KF: who can guarantee that zed's head on server side is in exact place where client sees it?
Secondary fire's blast radius appears too wide. I agree with that. But lowering it down to 0 is not an option. I tried it already. It ended up with small Clot in front completely blocked and made impossible to freeze big fat Bloat behind. Maybe we need to set the radius somewhere in the middle...
Upvote
0
@Skell
Explosive damage bonus is limited to 2x. Players can hold M32+Freezer, but there is no place for pipebombs then, which is fair trade imo.
Theoretically ice should completely stop pellets from flying through, but it is impossible to implement without overriding zed classes or shotgun projectiles.
Damage bonus set to 5x for non-explosives in beta 2 just for testing purposes. It should fully compensate lack of headshots.
Explosive damage bonus is limited to 2x. Players can hold M32+Freezer, but there is no place for pipebombs then, which is fair trade imo.
Theoretically ice should completely stop pellets from flying through, but it is impossible to implement without overriding zed classes or shotgun projectiles.
Damage bonus set to 5x for non-explosives in beta 2 just for testing purposes. It should fully compensate lack of headshots.
Upvote
0
I don't know how others feel about it, but for me the main problem with the lack of head-shots is the fact that it removes a very satisfying part of the gameplay. And, unless you're a demo who goes BOOM or a medic that doesn't shoot at all, I don't see why you'd want that. I'd take lower damage over that anytime.
Upvote
0
This would be perfectly reasonable solution. Perhaps even 50%. For example, EBR sharp would have to score 14 headshots on a frozen scrake to kill it, 4 bolts, etc., which takes some time and consumes ammo quickly if used consistently as a strategy - but doesn't leave sharp pretty much useless vs frozen zed like it is now.
Also, 3x bonus damage to the 'frost health' is already plenty, there is no reason whatsoever to raise it to 5x. Perhaps shotgun pellets could stay at 3x and 5x would apply to commando weapons only?
That is a great news, both in terms of aesthetic experience and in making the freeze mechanics much more obvious to everyone that didn't read the manual
Upvote
0
I just did my first derp around with it, granted only on normal because I was more inclined to see the aesthetics of the weapon than actually bother about a game.
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet; but I would like a visual indicator as to the recharge time after a reload and not just the sound. It doesn't make sense that a weapon already with glowing components doesn't offer some visual input as to when the gun is ready to fire. Maybe the blue on the mag could change colour?
Overall, I think it looks and feels nice (two of the more important criteria for me when playing). How it performs in an actual game situation I'm not sure yet, but others seem to have made some valid points about it so far.
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet; but I would like a visual indicator as to the recharge time after a reload and not just the sound. It doesn't make sense that a weapon already with glowing components doesn't offer some visual input as to when the gun is ready to fire. Maybe the blue on the mag could change colour?
Overall, I think it looks and feels nice (two of the more important criteria for me when playing). How it performs in an actual game situation I'm not sure yet, but others seem to have made some valid points about it so far.
Upvote
0
Sharpshooter's headshot multiplier is taken into account in freezing calculations. But Cryo Gun is off-perk weapon, so sharpie has only 50% headshot damage bonus, which in turn leads to 50% faster freezing. It is barely noticeable, but for example, 6p HoE Gorefasts or Husks decapitated by Sharpshooter freeze until death while decapitated by other perks unfreeze and keep moving.
Headshots disabled because of both: technical and balance reasons. From gameplay aspect it would be too easy to do headshots on still target. But from technical view... You know, it is KF: who can guarantee that zed's head on server side is in exact place where client sees it?
Secondary fire's blast radius appears too wide. I agree with that. But lowering it down to 0 is not an option. I tried it already. It ended up with small Clot in front completely blocked and made impossible to freeze big fat Bloat behind. Maybe we need to set the radius somewhere in the middle...
That's not a valid reason to remove headshot bonuses. In the context of 6man HoE, if a sharp is taking scrakes, they will run out of ammo if they have to use 2-3x more on Scrakes/Fleshpounds. If, say, they're a no-fun-allowed xbow sharp who has to kill everything, they wouldn't have nearly enough to take care of everything.
The freeze blast could go through zeds a lot like the flamethrower.
I don't think the 5x damage bonus really can compensate because that means the player might as well be support. This mechanic brings up issues of dominant strategy.
If a player freezes a zed, the only ones to gain from it are the classes that are good at doing pure damage. If, say, the team decided to go 4 supports and 2 demos. You could carry 6 freeze guns, given the demos only hold a M32. This kills off the need to even have the other 5 perks in this game, making the game even less balanced than before because now your dominant strategy now only encompasses 2 perks.
Honestly, not carrying pipebombs is not a trade off - Fleshpounds can be taken down with ease without them. It would be even easier if they were frozen given the 2x damage multiplier.
I also don't quite agree with the firebug vs ice thing because that solution makes the two clash, instead of somehow work together. I get that it's thawing the zed so it shouldn't work, but realism really shouldn't be a concern in this situation, right?
Upvote
0
Sharpshooter shouldn't shoot frozen zeds at all. And team shouldn't freeze zeds that are supposed to be taken out by sharpshooter. It's called teamwork. It is like suggesting removal of grenade smoke, because sharpshooter can't see though it.
Shotgun damage multiplier will be reverted back to 3x in next beta. Nitro's splash radius significantly lowered.
Shotgun damage multiplier will be reverted back to 3x in next beta. Nitro's splash radius significantly lowered.
Upvote
0