Preserve the cross bow and stop the useless rage

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

edit: nvm taken care of.


Cameron sorry that you got flamed like that because you really didn't deserve it. just ignore disrespectful posts like that and don't let people drag you down to their level.

 

[outofrealman]

I think xbow is still balanced. I have countless time of games that two fleshpounds and 4+ scrakes spawn at the same time. If EVERY SINGLE scrakes and fleshpoundpounds need the whole team to kill, THERE'S NO CHANCE for a team to make it when the server dicided to spawn 5+ high level zeds with some sirens. Which usually happan on 6-man suicidal.

What do you want then? You want the game ONLY for a team of pros? Or you want to pray everytime before the wave starts that scrakes and fleshpounds dont spawn too much together? I dont want the game to be luck based too much. XBOW is fine as it is at this moment. What I suggest is nerf the dmg of ALL ss weapons and increase head shot dmg of ss class.

Sharpshooter SHOULD BE POWERFUL if you hit the head. If the most powerful head shot weapon cant kill fps, WHY I SHOULD PLAY THE SS CLASS. I can pop 37 or 25 heads with ak or SCAR before reload. I can kill large groups of zeds lower than scrake with alt fire of huntty, aa 12 to empty a crowded hallway. Cut anything below scrake with one hit of katana.
And what do ss get? line up zeds and only able to kill the first 3-4 clot and even crawlers wont die after that? And I cant kill fps, WHY I should play ss then?

 

[CandleJack]

Keep about 25 bolts on the Crossbow. 20 bolts gives no leeway at all for mistakes. Make the Katana best only with Berserker and make the Scrake resistant to the Crossbow. 25 gives a smidgeon.

This way Berserker gets a slight buff and Sharpshooter moves to an anti-FP role.

Maybe drop the multiplier from over 9000x to 4x damage. And remove the extra bodyshot damage from Sharpshooter.

Also take away half the mags and add 50% more recoil to the EBR in the hands of the Sharpshooter.

Make the Crossbow weigh one block less, the LAR one block less, and the EBR 1 block more. So sharpshooters can carry both the LAR and Crossbow, or the LAR and EBR.


There, everyone happy?

 

[Marls]

I still beleive balancing the Sharshooter is only taking away its pistol masteries/bonus's

If they want to focus on 1 shotting the tougher enemies, they take the crossbow, if they want to focus on the weaker swarm, they take the M14.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

Keep about 25 bolts on the Crossbow. 20 bolts gives no leeway at all for mistakes.

Maybe drop the multiplier from over 9000x to 4x damage.

And remove the extra bodyshot damage from Sharpshooter.

Also take away half the mags and add 50% more recoil to the EBR in the hands of the Sharpshooter.

Make the Crossbow weigh one block less, the LAR one block less, and the EBR 1 block more. So sharpshooters can carry both the LAR and Crossbow, or the LAR and EBR.


There, everyone happy?

yes to all that.

one thing i'd change is the Scrake "resistance"......i'd rather see them add a new specimen thats "headshot resistant" so not only is a SS "weakness" added, but another specimen addition in general seeing as the game could use some new threats for us to figure out how to kill.

additionally for the sharpshooter as a whole add this:

I still beleive balancing the Sharshooter is only taking away its pistol masteries/bonus's

removal of handguns as SS weapons (eliminates easy leveling)

and finally, which CandleJack sorta already hit on: general Perk restrictions on all primary weapons.....the pricing/discount system in theory should have prevented this issue, but fact is that it doesn't. restricting primary weapons to only being available for purchase by their "linked" perk would greatly help reduce the potential for weapons to become "overpowered" as well as stop "role infringement" with players using non-perk weapons to fill roles that perk isn't designed for.

 

[CandleJack]

yes to all that.

one thing i'd change is the Scrake "resistance"......i'd rather see them add a new specimen thats "headshot resistant" so not only is a SS "weakness" added, but another specimen addition in general seeing as the game could use some new threats for us to figure out how to kill.

additionally for the sharpshooter as a whole add this:



removal of handguns as SS weapons (eliminates easy leveling)

and finally, which CandleJack sorta already hit on: general Perk restrictions on all primary weapons.....the pricing/discount system in theory should have prevented this issue, but fact is that it doesn't. restricting primary weapons to only being available for purchase by their "linked" perk would greatly help reduce the potential for weapons to become "overpowered" as well as stop "role infringement" with players using non-perk weapons to fill roles that perk isn't designed for.

I can see where you're coming from by including the removal of handguns, but i believe by now everyone's come to accept this happening with the Gunslinger being introduced. So i left it out because i kind felt it unneccessary to say.

My reasoning behind changing the Scrake rather than adding in a new specimen: It makes the whole thing easier to implement; just a bit of code rather than all the animations, modelling, texturing, etc.

Though i support adding in a new spec and removing handguns of course.

I will elaborate on the Perk restrictions:

Many people complain of the Medic outperforming the Berserker at his own job. I say nerf the damage, remove the scrake stun and run speed with the Katana, while it's not being used by a Berserker. So the katana would be made weaker outside of Berserker.

The same could apply with the Crossbow and any number of weapons. Make the Crossbow less accurate (more sway) less bolts and even slower reload speed. The Crossbow could still be used by other perks, just nowhere near as effective as with Sharpshooter.

Some perks get buffs to their weapons like extra penetration and mag size for using their perk weapons, i say penalise players for using non-perk weapons. On a small scale of course. Players should have the ability to use any and all weapons somewhat effectively.

So no making the Handcannon fly out of your hand, and no making Shotguns send you flying across the map. (hurr hurr hurr)

 

[brphoenix]

There's one problem in reducing sharpshooter's bodyshot damage - it affects headshots too.

So in order to reduce bodyshot damage, you'll need to increase headshot damage bonus so as to compensate the damage loss (and it'll be a big one).

But then we face another problem - he'll become better with non-perk weapons. His headshot damage applies to every weapon available (as long as it can headshot - flamethrower is now excluded).

This can be easily fixed, of course, by limiting headshot bonus to sharpshooter weaponry. Which then will cripple sharpshooters who want to not be a FP killer (in medium-hard players don't really have to follow their roles, in begginer you can run around jumping and doing 360s using a LAW and still win. But I digress)

So we have to choose between two nerfs:

1) Nerf Sharpshooter overall damage, reducing his capabilities to kill a FP, or;

2) Nerf Sharpshooter overall weapon proficiency, reducing his capabilities to have a better backup weapon.

This isn't a hard choice, IMO.

 

[Evilsod]

Some perks get buffs to their weapons like extra penetration and mag size for using their perk weapons, i say penalise players for using non-perk weapons. On a small scale of course. Players should have the ability to use any and all weapons somewhat effectively.

That sort of balance is awkward. Why not just buff up the stat boosts and nerf the base stats of weapons?

And i keep forgetting the SS also gets a base damage boost on top of the headshot damage boost. It really should be made entirely headshot based.

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

yup on the gunslinger.....i'm also one of those who just assume that it will be added and the handgun issue will be settled.

with the scrake vs. new specimen: i think the game could use a new specimen. it's just like when they added the Husk and it drastically changed gameplay. i'd rather see them spend more time developing another specimen with animations, textures, modeling etc... instead of wasting time reworking weapon/perk/bonus code when they don't need too.


again for weapon restrictions......like you said CandleJack in regards to the Scrake resistance........it would make things much easier to implement. instead of having to modify and add new code for weapons, specimen, perk system etc... just remove the ability for other perks to buy the weapons and that solves all those problems that were mentioned. instead of buffing this or nerfing that, adding sway/recoil or removing it, adding/reducing ammo, removing stun ability etc... you can simply solve those problems by making the game so that you don't have to worry about the "ifs" like:

• what if the zerker was using a crossbow?
• what if the medic was using an EBR?
• what if the commando was using a katana?

by simply not letting perks use non-perk weapons, you prevent those situations from happening, which means that you don't have to do any additional tweeking to any other game mechanics which would actually require MORE time to do.

now for the body/headshot damage, see how weapon restriction works with that? you wouldn't have to worry about the SS being able to have rediculous headshot damage with say, a SCAR because the SS couldn't use the weapon in the first place. the SS perk should have the headshot multiplyer, for the perk weapons that is and the normal body damage isn't needed at all. i still believe a bow for a level6 SS should be allowed to get oneshot kills even on suicidal against any specimen.....again, they have to be headshots. that rewards the headshot multiplyer that the perk rightly deserves. if lowering overall damage affects the damage for headshots aside from the multiplyer, then just boost up the multiplyer to still allow for oneshots with the bow. again, that headshot mutliplyer wouldn't work on any other weapons besides the perks' weapons if weapons were restricted to perks.

if the SS could carry a bow and a LAR then he's got two weapons to use his perk bonuses. remember he's also got the 9mm. seeing as every perk is forced to have a knife and 9mm, it'd only be fair for perk bonuses to apply to those weapons. so the SS would still get the headshot bonus on the 9mm despite not being able to level with it, he'd have plenty of weapons to do his job.

all together, these few "simple" suggestions solves many of the issues that have been brought up in this thread and many other ones simliar to it.

 

[Temstar]

I am very much against the idea of restricting weapons to perks. This isn't WoW where we need paladin only devout shoulders. People should be free to experiment with different combos. The perk modifiers should be enough of an encouragement for people to stick to perk weapons. If they really feel they need another perk's weapon (MP7 comes to mind, if we discount katana and crossbow) then they should be allowed to. Take away that ability and you take away depth from the game.

Not to mention carrying someone else's gun for them as support/after they died is perfect example of good teamwork that should be encouraged. And also medic would be heavily nerfed if they are banned from using tier 3 guns.

 

[outofrealman]

by simply not letting perks use non-perk weapons, you prevent those situations from happening, which means that you don't have to do any additional tweeking to any other game mechanics which would actually require MORE time to do.

No, no, no, and no. And most importantly, NO. What about I buy a SCAR and change to medic? The SCAR will dorp to the ground? Then what can medic and zerker have? Demo have the right to have a gun against crawlers. Medics should also help clearing groups of smaller zeds when the other teamates are focusing on the other side and still at full health.

Changing perk between waves is one of the really useful and important strategy that should never be take away.

 

[Double_Deagle]

I am very much against the idea of restricting weapons to perks. This isn't WoW where we need paladin only devout shoulders. People should be free to experiment with different combos. The perk modifiers should be enough of an encouragement for people to stick to perk weapons. If they really feel they need another perk's weapon (MP7 comes to mind, if we discount katana and crossbow) then they should be allowed to. Take away that ability and you take away depth from the game.

Not to mention carrying someone else's gun for them as support/after they died is perfect example of good teamwork that should be encouraged. And also medic would be heavily nerfed if they are banned from using tier 3 guns.

^What he said.

And as for the scrake having headshot resistance he use to.

The scrake and the siren both have a trait called Durable_Head. What it means is that their heads cannot be popped off until after they're dead. It makes perfect sense for the siren, because otherwise once you popped her head, she wouldn't be able to scream, and it made sense for the scrake because it prevented perks other than sharpshooter from popping his head with the crossbow.

Before the headshot hitbox fix, a medic with a crossbow could not kill a scrake in one shot under any circumstances. Even if he knew to shoot over the shoulder. The fact that he can now is a bug. Durable_Head is currently broken for the scrake, and it should be fixed as a bug fix. And it is worth noting that Durable_Head still works for the siren, so it's not like it was intentionally and completely removed from the game, it's simply broken in the scrake code.

 

[outofrealman]

^What he said.

And as for the scrake having headshot resistance he use to.

The scrake and the siren both have a trait called Durable_Head. What it means is that their heads cannot be popped off until after they're dead. It makes perfect sense for the siren, because otherwise once you popped her head, she wouldn't be able to scream, and it made sense for the scrake because it prevented perks other than sharpshooter from popping his head with the crossbow.

Before the headshot hitbox fix, a medic with a crossbow could not kill a scrake in one shot under any circumstances. Even if he knew to shoot over the shoulder. The fact that he can now is a bug. Durable_Head is currently broken for the scrake, and it should be fixed as a bug fix. And it is worth noting that Durable_Head still works for the siren, so it's not like it was intentionally and completely removed from the game, it's simply broken in the scrake code.

A scrake can be decap. Try to use katana when you are not using zerker. Keep using primary attack, there's around 30% chance his head will be cut off before he die.

And someone also state that if you shoot a siren with bullup when you are not a commando, and you hit ALL the bullup bullets to here head, she will decap. But she is the only zeds that have no way to attack after decap as both of her attacks, scream and bite, need her head.

Also, headshot from xbow do 1800 dmg if not using ss perk. So you can one shot decap a scrake up to 3-man suicidal. Plus the double dmg of decap + 25% of the scrakes total health, so you can one shot killing a 3-man suicidal scrake.

And this is only my guess:
Before the hitbox is fixed, headshots to scrakes and fleshpounds only do dmg to total health, not the headhealth. So even if you hit the hitbox of the head, you cant kill them as no decap is occured.

 

[drakioned]

Just throwing a thought out there.

It seems that if you want to make the game harder for people 1-shotting scrakes and fleshpounds, just join a server with at least 150 ping, if anyone can consistently 1 shot FPs on suicidal whilst not being in some ridiculous long corridor, then I salute them.

 

[Lincoln]

I think the answer to this and other similar problems comes from a total weapon and perk revision and some code(head-body damage calculation).

For this particular problem I suggest limiting access to non-perk weapons (only tier 1), removing some perk bonus (like SS reload time bonus), and possibly adding some handicaps to the perks(like -x% damage resistance to SS, less accuracy with non-melee for Beserk, reduced speed for Supports, less carry weight to medic, etc).

The main idea of this suggestion is making the perks more deppendants of others, thus improving teamwork and promoting role-play (No more SS acting like commandos, Medics like SS etc). So the SS can still make the 1 shot kill, if the rest of the team keeps him alive to do so.

This is just a suggestion feel free to improve it or changing it to your opinions.
If you say that "That is just dumb!" please explain why (Because.... is not a valid argument.).

 

[Evilsod]

Also, headshot from xbow do 1800 dmg if not using ss perk. So you can one shot decap a scrake up to 3-man suicidal. Plus the double dmg of decap + 25% of the scrakes total health, so you can one shot killing a 3-man suicidal scrake.

5man Suicidal, not 3 man. Only 6man Suicidal stops a 1 shot kill on Scrakes.

You could always headshot Scrakes, Fleshpounds i'm skeptical about as i don't really remember anything but the glitch for decapping them in 1 shot, but Scrakes you aimed over the shoulder and you'd always 1 hit kill just the same as now.

Either way, headshot multiplier needs reducing, the Crossbow needs to be made a Sharpshooters weapon with increased price and discount and the sodding ammo sell/rebuy thing needs sorting out.

 

[CandleJack]

Just throwing a thought out there.

It seems that if you want to make the game harder for people 1-shotting scrakes and fleshpounds, just join a server with at least 150 ping, if anyone can consistently 1 shot FPs on suicidal whilst not being in some ridiculous long corridor, then I salute them.

I remember being on a custom map that was a giant square of streets, something village or something, with wide roads and scrakes spawning on wave one. After a long wave one of kiting with L6 Commando, i switched to SS. Later, heaps of FPs spawned in wave 2-5. I had 200-250 ping the entire time and was consistently headshotting FPs.

Although i had plenty of room to move, i had to calculate where i need to aim, and did so pretty well.

 

[Double_Deagle]

A scrake can be decap. Try to use katana when you are not using zerker. Keep using primary attack, there's around 30% chance his head will be cut off before he die.

And someone also state that if you shoot a siren with bullup when you are not a commando, and you hit ALL the bullup bullets to here head, she will decap. But she is the only zeds that have no way to attack after decap as both of her attacks, scream and bite, need her head.

Also, headshot from xbow do 1800 dmg if not using ss perk. So you can one shot decap a scrake up to 3-man suicidal. Plus the double dmg of decap + 25% of the scrakes total health, so you can one shot killing a 3-man suicidal scrake.

And this is only my guess:
Before the hitbox is fixed, headshots to scrakes and fleshpounds only do dmg to total health, not the headhealth. So even if you hit the hitbox of the head, you cant kill them as no decap is occured.

Ok, well maybe it was taken out, but then the solution would be to put it back in!

Make scrakes and sirens unable to be decapped before death. Sharpshooters (of high enough level) would be able to still one hit kill scrakes, but medics and berserkers wouldn't.

As for the reselling/buying problem, simply make it so that when you buy a crossbow you get 20/40 bolts. That way if you sell and rebuy it, you'll still have to buy ammo for it, and the high price of ammo acts the way it's supposed to.

 

[Fa11ure]

being able to 2-3 shot boss on suicidal is quite OP i would say -_-
X-bow and pipe bombs need a bloody nerf, the game was decent without pipes, knowing that the x-bow was OP already then but then pipes came along and made even FP turn bisexual.

 

[Uk1t4k3]

being able to 2-3 shot boss on suicidal is quite OP i would say -_-
X-bow and pipe bombs need a bloody nerf, the game was decent without pipes, knowing that the x-bow was OP already then but then pipes came along and made even FP turn bisexual.

U need more than 5 shots even with level 6 SS perk to kill the boss unless you're talking about soloing which is pointless since the debate about xbow being OP is taking account into 6 man suicidal. One of the easiest way to nerf xbow for non SS user is to give them negative dmg bonus for xbow so that they wont be able to 1 hit K.O scrake even on suicidal and only a sharpshooter can do it.