Point blank range 3 shots to the chest no kill

[the_Monk]

I'm inclined towards the Ping theory, which explains why none of the TWI guys can reproduce it.

I have repeatedly shot someone who was prone or crouched and holding still, <100m away, and had a VERY noticeable delay between "Bang" and "Wet meat smacking sound". Like up to 1/3-1/2 second, which is of course an absurd time to target for any round @ that range, let alone a smokeless ~.30 rifle bullet.

That being said, why the hell are nearly all of the populated servers so damn laggy?

It can't be "ping" because I get the issue on servers to which I have a fantastic ping.

As stated above. I've tested my setup (our new server config) for over a week now. It has been confirmed by everyone who has played in our server over the last week or so (high ping or low ping doesn't matter) it is a combination of server tickrate, client configured (expected) netrate, and server population. Not ping.

 

[the_Monk]

It might have a -lot- to do with overpopulated servers. I've restricted my playing to 40 or less servers, and I haven't noticed the issue in quite a while.

Maybe it's just the big, 64 man servers? I can get great ping (60 or so) on some of them, but still suffer the hitscan issues and lag. Try playing on smaller servers and see if that helps?

Like I said. Server population does matter but only in so far as it causes the issue to compound. The real issue is server tickrate and client configured (expected) netrate. With our new config we have had fantastic results. Of course as also stated above expect the CPU usage on the server to DOUBLE which I'm sure will have GSP's thinking twice about allowing you to do so.

Also, since CPU usage becomes DOUBLE of what it was the servers already stressing their boxes by running higher player counts will not be able to make these changes in the first place.

EDIT:

I suggest the following:

1. Everyone running a 64-player server who has phyisical access to their box (ie. NOT reliant on GSP allowing you to do this) set your server to 32-player and make all of the changes as described in my post on PAGE2 or in the original thread I linked in my post.

2. Fill the server to capacity and test it yourselves. While your CPU usage will DOUBLE (which is why I suggest lowering your usual player-cap by half) you should very easily see the change in the things I described on our server in my post (PAGE 2).

 

[Stahlhelmii]

Yes, please! We are completely unable to reproduce this particular issue in the office. We can't be certain it's actually a problem if we don't have hard evidence of it's existence.

A video and screenshots showing what the issue is, with proof that the pings/server stress aren't the cause.

I've been reporting this issue for 7 weeks, for crying out loud. It has ruined nearly every single game for me, and most certainly every game I've used a rifle in. It happens where servers are running fine, are set up for 32 players or less and have only 20 on. It happens when both the other player and I have 40 ping, when I have 40 and he has 200, when we both have 200, when I have 200 and he has 40. It happens on laggy 64 player servers. It ALWAYS happens. I'm not the only one who has been complaining about this. I'm at a loss for words to hear -- after all this time -- that the problem isn't even acknowledged by TWI.

I can't run fraps (hell, the last patch took me down from 40-50 fps to 16-24 fps, even if I wanted to I doubt I could at this point), but I cordially invite you to come to my home, stand over my shoulder and watch me fire round after round with a semi-automatic rifle into a stationary player 2-20 feet in front of me, ADS'd dead center on his chest. You will see the shots seemingly disappear or go through him, until either he sees me and kills me, or someone else does while I'm preoccupied with the Bulletproof Man. You will see this every single game -- usually SEVERAL times, every single game. Why the heck this can't be "duplicated" is simply beyond my ability to comprehend.

I'm sorry, but you have no idea how frustrated I am at this point.

While I have experienced what is being described in this thread I do not believe the problem to be hit-detection OR network latency.

After reading the following thread: [URL="http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=68693&highlight=tickrate"][URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=68693&highlight=tickrate[/URL][/URL]

I can see the argument that sometimes it might be "cover" getting in the way somehow, but mostly I now mostly believe the problem has to do with the default server's MAXIMUM tickrate setting (server ROEngine.INI), the player's configured internet speed setting (player ROEngine.INI) and total player-count on the servers.

For instance.

We have tested the following on our server:

sf. Shoot First [Tactical] - TE & CD
24.77.33.94

SERVER HARDWARE:
Core 2 E8500 3.16Ghz, 8GB RAM, 3MBps upload bandwidth

SERVER CONFIG:
- Changed the default MAXIMUM (20) tickrated on the server to (40). Warning! This DOUBLES the CPU usage on the server.

[IpDrv.TcpNetDriver]
MaxInternetClientRate=20000 (Default = 10000)
NetServerMaxTickRate=40 (Default = 20)

- Changed the player count from 32 to 24 players just to be safe for testing.


CLIENT CONFIG:
- Changed our client "configured internet speed" settings in the local player ROEngine.INI's

[Engine.Player]
ConfiguredInternetSpeed=20000 (Default = 10000)


After almost a week of testing we believe that making these changes has made a significant difference in what can be described as "bullet travel time", "hit markings/effects" and in general what has been described in this thread as "hit detection loss".

Feel free to join our server anytime to test this theory for yourselves. Also, while those of us members located in the same province in the server noticed no change until the server filled up some the members located in California (with a usual 110 ping to the server) noticed an immediate improvement.

That may be, but as a player I would have no way of even knowing, let alone do anything about it. An issue like that should never have gotten through beta ... (but, I really appreciate your work on this!)

 

[dweeb]

I do occasionally see this on servers where I have a low ping but I almost never see it on a server which doesn't show signs of being over-stressed. The only problem is in my experience the vast majority of servers that run 64 players become overstressed when they are full. Sometimes even the difference from 60 and 64 can seem to have a big difference.

 

[Floyd]

I usually stay out of these discussions as I just play for fun and as long as everyone is in the same boat, I rationalize the events as the 'fog of war'.


The only time I've ever experienced this phenomenon has been on stressed servers.

Its usually been on 64 player server. I know this clan has state of the art equipment, but on the map Spartanovka with 64 players and with pings between 120 and 260, I shot repeatedly at a player's upper torso less than 20 meters away with a bolt. When he discovered where I was, he shot me dead with his ppsh.

It was also during this play time that I experienced (for the first time ever) the talked about 'no fire on first mouse click' bug. It happened quite often.


We've taken our 64 man capable (hardware recommended) server down to 52 players. While the server could usually handle the load, several of our regulars and clanmates have personal hardware that struggle with larger player numbers.

 

[Reise]

Somebody just has to run the game with fraps on for a while until it finally happens.

It may take a few gigs of video but it should happen eventually.

I'd do it myself but the game doesn't exactly run smoothly while recording.

 

[Moyako]

I'd do it myself but the game doesn't exactly run smoothly while recording.

That and for some reason fraps doesn't like RO2. I'm using xfire at the moment, but my fps fall to 15-19 :s

My cousin finally took a video:

Red Orchestra 2 hit detection problem - YouTube

2 guys shooting at him at the same time :S

 

[the_Monk]

^^^ that video still looks to me like it would be fixed by having the server double the default MAX tickrate. As a server populates there is of course a bigger demand for updates etc. from/to all of the connected clients. If the MAX number of updates the server can push to any one client is too small you may notice things like "bullet drop" / "bullet lag".

Join a server with the tickrate doubled, and even if you don't notice much when the server isn't very populated I believe as the population increases you will notice how you aren't dropping bullets etc.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

That and for some reason fraps doesn't like RO2. I'm using xfire at the moment, but my fps fall to 15-19 :s

My cousin finally took a video:

Red Orchestra 2 hit detection problem - YouTube

2 guys shooting at him at the same time :S

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! THAT'S IT!!!!

Note to TWI, this happens to me on all servers, all ping situations. I just finished a game and had it happen THREE times!

 

[Josef Nader]

That video basically encompasses the problems with hit detection. Stuff like that happens quite a lot. I don't know if it's the tickrate or what, but it always happens point-blank. Movement speed and stance don't matter. I've had it happen to folks sprinting, walking, or standing still and standing, prone, and crouched. I can put 4-5 bullets in them and they just walk it off like a champ, killing me in the process.

I'll see blood splatter and blood particles flying off of them, but nothing registers no matter how many bullets I pump into them. It happens with all the guns, seemingly randomly, and never seems to affect -their- hit detection when they whip around and shoot me in the face.

 

[Wrafe]

I get this problem all the time and it pisses me off. I fire 3 shots at a dude's chest and then the 4th will hit.

semi-auto rifle
40 ping

fix it!!!

 

[Stahlhelmii]

That video basically encompasses the problems with hit detection. Stuff like that happens quite a lot. I don't know if it's the tickrate or what, but it always happens point-blank. Movement speed and stance don't matter. I've had it happen to folks sprinting, walking, or standing still and standing, prone, and crouched. I can put 4-5 bullets in them and they just walk it off like a champ, killing me in the process.

I'll see blood splatter and blood particles flying off of them, but nothing registers no matter how many bullets I pump into them. It happens with all the guns, seemingly randomly, and never seems to affect -their- hit detection when they whip around and shoot me in the face.

Exactly. Word for word. Next one to say, "The hit detection isn't bad, you just missed," or "learn to aim," I would like to shoot in the face.

 

[Karnatakapunk]

It happens with me too, bad it happens with my bolt action rifle, and at most 2 shots dont register, because most of the times, 1 shot dont detect, the guy turn back and sprayme ramborage style

 

[DiedTrying]

yea I see stuff like in the above video at least once per map.

I actually think it may have something to do with the player being shot while he is moving over objects. I can remember a couple times I was shooting a guy who was bouncing around off something and not having hits register, and that is also clearly the case in the video.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

yea I see stuff like in the above video at least once per map.

I actually think it may have something to do with the player being shot while he is moving over objects. I can remember a couple times I was shooting a guy who was bouncing around off something and not having hits register, and that is also clearly the case in the video.

Sadly, it happens to me just as often when I'm standing still, firing at a guy who's stationary and either AFK or spacing out.

 

[psgchisolm]

Exactly. Word for word. Next one to say, "The hit detection isn't bad, you just missed," or "learn to aim," I would like to shoot in the face.

If this game is as realistic as it says it is you might need to bring an extra clip just in case.

 

[the_Monk]

I'm not disagreeing with anyone, I'm simply suggesting that it is NOT network latency.

What you guys keep describing is akin to "messages being lost" meaning either the server couldn't send or receive enough updates to the client(s).

That of course being directly related to tickrate where the MAX setting becomes rather important as the server fills up with players.

Seriously, all of you who know exactly what to look for..........go play on a server that has the MAX tickrate doubled and gather more info. All of this can only serve to help TWI in solving this issue for us.

Since we've never pushed our server passed 32 players in the first place (and full at 32 the CPU usage never even broke 50%) it wasn't a problem on our server in the first place. But being part of the community and a long-time serveradmin in the FPS community I've been using forums suggestions and trying to find more things out.

I'm not saying our server *never* displays this problem, but if it ever did/does it is even more diminished since we doubled the MAX tickrate.


EDIT:

As a point of interest. The default MAX tickrate in the server .INI file for a WAN (Internet) server is 20 where the default MAX tickrate for a LAN server is set to 35. As stated on page 2 we have set our server to 40. Use the server to test things out. Of course to take full advantage of the higher server tickrate you also need to make that client-side change discussed in the original thread linked from my post on PAGE 2.

 

[Reise]

^^^ that video still looks to me like it would be fixed by having the server double the default MAX tickrate. As a server populates there is of course a bigger demand for updates etc. from/to all of the connected clients. If the MAX number of updates the server can push to any one client is too small you may notice things like "bullet drop" / "bullet lag".

Join a server with the tickrate doubled, and even if you don't notice much when the server isn't very populated I believe as the population increases you will notice how you aren't dropping bullets etc.

It's not a problem with the tickrate, since the guy you're shooting through can often just hit you without any problems at all.

Of course when you're sitting still it's easy to see that happening, but I've been killed by someone who my shots went through as I was moving while aiming.

 

[Josef Nader]

But it happens on servers where I have 60 ping, zero detectable lag, and ~40 players. It gets worse as the server jams up, but as the video shows, there doesn't have to be any lag for it to happen. Even worse, it only occurs point blank. I can sit there and get 3 kills at 175m, and then turn around and shoot at the guy sneaking up behind me, put 5-6 bullets in him, and have him kill me in a single shot.

It's ONLY in CQC, and it happens regardless of lag, pings, the weapon I'm holding, and how the enemy is behaving at the time. I just shoot, blood splat, shoot, blood splat, shoot, blood splat, shoot, blood splat, catch a bullet to the face.

 

[the_Monk]

At this point (since I'm beginning to repeat myself) all I can further add to this conversation is that I'm willing to make our server available to everyone as a "test things out" server.

sf. Shoot First [Tactical] - TE & CD
24.77.33.94

If you feel like it add me on STEAM (sf.monk) and we can set up specific times/dates to run some in-depth testing.

Hopefully we can uncover something that will be helpful to TWI in their bug-squashing.

thanks.